Irresponsible (313)

[Luz]

I'm sorry... I shouldn't... but I really can't help myself... Please tell me that you meant to say travesty and not that one of the village wenches was a man in drag or something?

Yeah, travesty, I'm so pissed I didn't realize my mistake. I was thinking more along the lines of that piece of S***, but was trying to use a word that wouldn't get filtered.

[lily]

First of all, Ken, I'm so sorry to hear your involvement with the show will be minimal at best in season 4. As others have said, you have a great understandment of the characters. Common Ground was awesome, and I was so looking forward to a possible sequel in season 4, as well as any other episode you could've written. Hope it's not too late, and our posts can make TPTB change their minds

The Kolya/Sheppard dynamic, especially after the Common Ground events, shouldn't have been mixed with Lucius in a comedic episode. It should've been a dark and dramatic episode, not a campy one.

And as for the question of why Lucious was wet when dunked in the barrel (or how he was able to be dunked in a barrel at all...) -- I asked this same question during a script meeting -- and Rob C (patiently) explained that for the shield to work, it had to react to kinetic energy. So bullets, falling bricks, even punches and kicks all register -- but anything moving at low speeds, like being held underwater - would have no effect. (and I'm sure if you really nitpick you can find fault with this definition-- but there has to be at least a small degree of suspension of disbelief when it comes to sci-fi, yes?)

I believe Rob C referenced an episode of SG-1 where they got past a personal shield by, very slowly and methodically, inserting a dagger through it, and stabbing the person. So there you go...you learn something new about pseudo-science everyday.

By the way -- I was the guy in the room that always had a million questions about how everything worked. And between Brad and Paul, they had an answer for everything. They're both walking tech-clopedias.

Ken C

Ken C

As others pointed out, and with all due respect, Hide and Seek was the only episode in Atlantis dealing with personal shields. Watching it before writing another episode that deals with that technology should've been a must.

To be fair to Joe and Paul --

I have to say that the script for "Irresponsible" was without a doubt the funniest I had read of the entire season. Seriously -- I was on the floor more than once. I loved this script. But, as with all productions, there are miscommunications along the way, and sometimes -- through nobody's fault - the tone and nuance doesn't always get translated to the screen.

I'll give you one example. This was meant to take place in more of a western kind of town. Thus the high noon-inspired finale. But when it came time to find a location we found ourselves settling for more of a dutch village. It didn't really have the same sense of gravitas -- but that couldn't be helped.

There were many more little instances of this that went on -- and it's unfortunate, because if the original production script had been fully realized on screen, I think you would all be jumping for joy that J&P were spearheading the fourth season of SGA. It was that good!

And I say this unbiased and unsolicited -- as my involvement with season four will likely be minimal to non-existant, due to the cancellation of SG-1.

Ken C

I understand that not everything in a script translates well to the screen. However I think the main problem was there in the script itself: it was a comedic episode from the start. Sorry, but I don't want to see sitcom-like / campy episodes in Atlantis.

No offense intended to Mallozzi and Mullie, but I think it's evident from fan posts throughout the Internet that this kind of "funny" episodes in recent years haven't been well received by the fans.

We've been told lots of times that The Powers That Be listen to the fans. Well, anyone can go to this and a million of other forums and mailing lists and read that quite often comedic episodes like this one are among the least favorite episodes among the Atlantis fans. After all the negative comments about episodes like "The Tower", I don't understand how they could think writing another campy episode was a good idea.

I love the show, and so far I had very little to complain about season 3. I think it's the best season so far, but after watching Irresponsible, I felt the need to get this out of my chest.

My two cents? If I could say something to The Powers That Be? Please, listen to the feedback from the fans given in letters, conventions and forums like this one. See what episodes are in general regarded as some of the best, see what episodes are consistently regarded as the worst. Many MANY fans post well-thought messages, not just sentences such as "this sucks". Please, read and think about what fans don't like and why.

No more campy episodes in Atlantis. Please.

And no more Lucius Lavin either. Can't imagine how anyone would think that it was a good idea to make him recurring. Hope we never see that character again.

[watcher652]

I just can't wrap my mind around this, who thought it would be a good idea to put Kolya on an episode with that scumbag Lucius?.

I have the same question.

I don't think Kolya deserved an important end. Yes, in the world of fiction, maybe he did. It certainly would have been satisfying, in a way. But I think he deserved the death of the man he became, just looking for a few guns in his war against his fellow Genii. No gloating, no lingering, no final smirk. Just dead.

He did deserve to die in his own episode, though. Was there an excess of guest stars and not enough scripts?

I gotta say Joe Flanigan was great with what he had to work with, which was pretty much nothing.

[SGAFan]

No more campy episodes in Atlantis. Please.

And no more Lucius Lavin either. Can't imagine how anyone would think that it was a good idea to make him recurring. Hope we never see that character again.

Speaking of well thought out posts. Sorry to truncate that but its easier on the eyes to read with minimal quote space

It does amaze me that after the reaction all over the internet to The Tower *shudders* that the possiblity of exploring that avenue would even be considered again for SGA. I didn't think Irresponsible (or even Irresitible) were as bad as The Tower (THANK GOD) but when asked to pick the least favorite show if the first half of season 3, I chose Irresistible. That formula just doesn't work for SGA. I wasn't even fond of that kind of story on SG1 really, but I think SG1 had a better chance of pulling off an ep like that than SGA. (which gets back to something I've always maintained: SG1 and SGA may share the same universe but are VERY different shows!)

Unlike The Tower, I though Irresponsible had its good moments (Shep's initial reaction to seeing Kolya for one thing) and some pretty hilarious ones too. But overall that type of story just doesnt, IMHO, work well for SGA. I would've thought someone would've noticed, given that TPTB seem to listen and "hear" the fans. (at least sometimes...)

With all due respect to M & M, I would've thought the reaction that followed the Tower would've drove home the point.

the fans here on gateworld are amongst some of the most devoted Stargate fans you will find anywhere. Those kind of fans are your bread and butter and the lifeblood of the show. Frankly and with all due respect to TPTB, these are the people you should be listening to.

[Willow'sCat]

I don't think Kolya deserved an important end.

You see for this viewer it was about Sheppard not Koyla... Sheppard deserved a better ending, resolution. Nothing would ever live up to the hype but at least they could have tried. It just seems so throw away, such a waste.

I gotta say Joe Flanigan was great with what he had to work with, which was pretty much nothing.

He really was, did a great job...at least that was something to watch. That and McKay making his escape armed only with a spoon.

[xfkirsten]

That and McKay making his escape armed only with a spoon.

That actually had to be one of the highlights of the episode for me. It was just so... McKay.

[SGAFan]

Yes, the spoon was amusing...

as was the snark "Jokes? and entrails flying" ROFL

[Alipeeps]

That actually had to be one of the highlights of the episode for me. It was just so... McKay.

Even better than that, "See if you can find another spoon. With someone helping this'll go twice as fast.."

Honestly, McKay... for a genius, sometimes....

P.S. Anyone else get the feeling McKay has watched the Shawshank Redemption one too many times?

[ToasterOnFire]

Don't let others' opinions colour you before you see the ep. I quite enjoyed the ep. It wasn't the best by far but it was okay and some elements were great. I feel it could have been handled better but such is life...

Watch the ep yourself and make up your own mind.

Thanks for your advice, I'm well aware that I could end up liking the ep when the majority of posters so far hated it. It's extremely unlikely and would be a 180 from the trend I've had with Atlantis so far, but hey.

[SGAFan]

well, I for one never said I hated it, there were just a lot of elements I had problems with, and it certainly isn't one of my favorites

[Alipeeps]

Thanks for your advice, I'm well aware that I could end up liking the ep when the majority of posters so far hated it. It's extremely unlikely and would be a 180 from the trend I've had with Atlantis so far, but hey.

Sorry, didn't mean to come across as patronising or telling you what to do - just was worried you were getting seriously put off the ep by all the negative comments on it.

[An-Alteran]

Ken_is_here:

So bullets, falling bricks, even punches and kicks all register -- but anything moving at low speeds, like being held underwater - would have no effect. (and I'm sure if you really nitpick you can find fault with this definition-- but there has to be at least a small degree of suspension of disbelief when it comes to sci-fi, yes?)

Yes, as long as the opposite wasn't made clear in another episode.

I believe Rob C referenced an episode of SG-1 where they got past a personal shield by, very slowly and methodically, inserting a dagger through it, and stabbing the person.

That was a goa'uld shield.
The Ancient shield of similar design to Luciasus blocked a cup of coffee from the hand of the person wearing the shield.
Personally I can live with it.
It is just annoying.

By the way -- I was the guy in the room that always had a million questions about how everything worked. And between Brad and Paul, they had an answer for everything. They're both walking tech-clopedias.

Ken C

I am a realist and a very dedicated viewer:
I solemly ask that I be mentioned to the producers as a possible free volunter consultant on future ideas to prevent fan disatisfaction!

Anyway: I have an off topic question for you:
In Return Part II the an Ancient Drone weapon hit the Puddle Jumpers shield at a very light angle, barely hitting the shield, but it then reacted with the shield and bounced off.
Most fans were under the imprecion that Drones penetrate shields by design.
Why did it bounce off the Ancient shield when they have never been deflected by shields in other sequences?
They have never been seen even reacting with shields before?
Was it an oversight by the CGI?
Did the Drone's angle of hitting the shield cause it not to sccesfully penetrate the shield?

[Lizabeth]

I've been reading this thread and I have a request. Can we stop with all the doom and gloom? Let's not create self-fulfilling prophecies here. If you didn't like the episode, discuss it, you don't have to pretend it was any better than you thought. But don't forecast doom for the whole show based on low quality from one, or even just a couple episodes. Look at all the other fantastic episodes season 3 has brought us! It has been the best season yet. I, for one, am hoping to see Atlantis continue on for an extended length of time. Call me an optimist, but I think the shows a lot more likely to continue if the fans obviously want it to continue instead of rave about how the show is going down the drain and doomed to fail. Talk about what you'd like to see, give your disappointment an up twist so whoever runs this thing knows, we want high quality SGA to continue long into the future!

[Ltcolshepjumper]

[QUOTE=An-Alteran;6070026]

Yes, as long as the opposite wasn't made clear in another episode.


That was a goa'uld shield.
The Ancient shield of similar design to Luciasus blocked a cup of coffee from the hand of the person wearing the shield.
Personally I can live with it.
It is just annoying.


I am a realist and a very dedicated viewer:
I solemly ask that I be mentioned to the producers as a possible free volunter consultant on future ideas to prevent fan disatisfaction!

Anyway: I have an off topic question for you:
In Return Part II the an Ancient Drone weapon hit the Puddle Jumpers shield at a very light angle, barely hitting the shield, but it then reacted with the shield and bounced off.
Most fans were under the imprecion that Drones penetrate shields by design.
Why did it bounce off the Ancient shield when they have never been deflected by shields in other sequences?
They have never been seen even reacting with shields before?
Was it an oversight by the CGI?
Did the Drone's angle of hitting the shield cause it not to sccesfully penetrate the shield?

This is discussed in another thread http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?t=37814

[Mitchell82]

I've been reading this thread and I have a request. Can we stop with all the doom and gloom? Let's not create self-fulfilling prophecies here. If you didn't like the episode, discuss it, you don't have to pretend it was any better than you thought. But don't forecast doom for the whole show based on low quality from one, or even just a couple episodes. Look at all the other fantastic episodes season 3 has brought us! It has been the best season yet. I, for one, am hoping to see Atlantis continue on for an extended length of time. Call me an optimist, but I think the shows a lot more likely to continue if the fans obviously want it to continue instead of rave about how the show is going down the drain and doomed to fail. Talk about what you'd like to see, give your disappointment an up twist so whoever runs this thing knows, we want high quality SGA to continue long into the future!

Great post agree 100%!