Vengeance (319)

[Southern Red]

She didn't, it's on the scene where Sheppard and her are running through the woods after the wraith arrive, there is this small mound, Teyla runs over it. It's understandable that someone would get confused since the scene is very dark, but I just watched it, and no, she doesn't fly or jump, or whatever, she just runs over it.
As for the running, they were all running fast, if running fast is a super power then all the athosians have it. *lol*

This is the quote from Luz saying that she watched the Teyla jumping scene in question and giving her opinion. I also just rewatched it in slow motion backwards and forwards. She jumps over what I believe to be a log, but in no way can I tell that the height of her jump is anything any reasonably athletic young person running for her life couldn't do.

Now can we please stop nitpicking every opinion that might disagree with yours and get back to discussing Vengeance?

[Mitchell82]

The creatures were almost laughable, I was cringing every time I saw them they were so tacky... the bit about 14:20 in is the worst, I don't know how they dare show it...

I disagree. I think they looked fine.

[Mitchell82]

Exactly. I thought that was so cheap. I was almost sick. I don't get it why they had to do that. It's pretty obvious what Teyla's purpose on Atlantis is according to TPTB.

Well I am a guy but I'll try to make this sound right. I agree that it might not have been necessary but I don't see it as over the top.

[LoveConquers]

Well I am a guy but I'll try to make this sound right. I agree that it might not have been necessary but I don't see it as over the top.

I'm a girl, and I agree.

And really, there is a practical side to it. To put it simply, the bug needs skin. What's the threat of the bug biting into a big old chunk of tac vest? That thing is so big on Teyla, imagine her lying down in it. Her head would be straining to stick out of the thing like a floundering turtle on its back.

(We do see her lying in the thing in Phantoms and again, the turtle image comes to mind).

The image is not nearly as threatening as it is when we see her exposed neck.

[LoveConquers]

McKay and Teyla were in a room together! And they talked! There was dialogue and serious conversation and a mention of morality!
I have wanted this for so long. Thank you, PTB. More, please.

I agree!!! About time!!! With both the Rodney/Teyla scenes and with their actually being moral implications. That was wonderful!

[Chailyn]

It was okay, I guess. More hallway walking. I've been trying to think of all the hallway walking scenes we've had and...wow. Talk about cutting costs.

And Michael is into dog breeding now? Because that's essentially what it was. Michael is breeding pitbulls. He's running a puppy mill...for bugs. I don't understand his logic behind it. He wants guard dogs...yeah. He's lonely. The Wraith seem very interconnected to each other. Why didn't he create an intelligent, stronger species with all the advantages of the Wraith, yet possessing human consciousness? A Super!Wraith. Now, that would have been a force to be reckoned with. He could have formed his own hive. Then again, those Super!Wraith could overthrow him...so maybe the pitbugs are good. A Wraith's best friend. As it was, I agree with whoever said these things looked like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And if it only takes one shot in the belly to kill them, how are they really any stonger than the Wraith? It reminded me a little of Duck Hunt.

I feel for Michael, for whatever reason. I really think they missed an excellent opportunity with him to go into the workings of Wraith society. Teyla makes guesses about his background, but we're really left with no new development on him. I just wanted to know more about the Wraith, esp. after CG. Does Michael have a kid at home or 50,000 little darlings?

Ronon annoyed me with all his running off and disappearing. He needs a bell.

Weir didn't get much.

Sheppard...I don't know. Nothing big.

Teyla is the damsel in distress again, calling out for Ronon and then Shep. I almost expected her to start calling for Rodney too. And the boob shot? Yeah. Notice that the shot starts with a close-up of her breast and slowly pulls back to show the other important things in the room, you know...Teyla's face...Michael. The little things.

Even Rodney didn't do much for me.

That said, I didn't think it was horrible. I liked when they found the eggs. I also liked the Teyla/Rodney scenes. I was pleasantly surprised that they backed each other up instead of Teyla siding with Shep and Ronon and everyone giving that "McKay, suck it up!" look. I liked it. It shows that Teyla can be practical at times and not simply follow her emotions. So, I thought Teyla was okay in this one...despite the damsel role she seems to be embracing.

Well, at least they remembered Michael is still alive. That's always good.

[Unamed]

god those creatures were ****! like the idea etc was good but they looked terrible! the reminded me of the bad guys in power rangers the way the waddled around!

[LoveConquers]

It was okay, I guess. More hallway walking. I've been trying to think of all the hallway walking scenes we've had and...wow. Talk about cutting costs.

And Michael is into dog breeding now? Because that's essentially what it was. Michael is breeding pitbulls. He's running a puppy mill...for bugs. I don't understand his logic behind it. He wants guard dogs...yeah. He's lonely. The Wraith seem very interconnected to each other. Why didn't he create an intelligent, stronger species with all the advantages of the Wraith, yet possessing human consciousness? A Super!Wraith. Now, that would have been a force to be reckoned with. He could have formed his own hive. Then again, those Super!Wraith could overthrow him...so maybe the pitbugs are good. A Wraith's best friend. As it was, I agree with whoever said these things looked like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. And if it only takes one shot in the belly to kill them, how are they really any stonger than the Wraith? It reminded me a little of Duck Hunt.

I feel for Michael, for whatever reason. I really think they missed an excellent opportunity with him to go into the workings of Wraith society. Teyla makes guesses about his background, but we're really left with no new development on him. I just wanted to know more about the Wraith, esp. after CG. Does Michael have a kid at home or 50,000 little darlings?

Ronon annoyed me with all his running off and disappearing. He needs a bell.

Weir didn't get much.

Sheppard...I don't know. Nothing big.

Teyla is the damsel in distress again, calling out for Ronon and then Shep. I almost expected her to start calling for Rodney too. And the boob shot? Yeah. Notice that the shot starts with a close-up of her breast and slowly pulls back to show the other important things in the room, you know...Teyla's face...Michael. The little things.

Er, what part are you talking about? Teyla's face is clearly visible in every close up while she is lying on that table. There are no shots where just her breasts fill the screen as you seem to imply. In every shot, it's her whole body, or a close-up of her face and chest. And might I add, Michael is also most definitely visible in that first shot when it starts with a close-up of Teyla and the camera slowly pans back.

Enough of the chest already.

I do agree with you though on Michael's experiment. Did I miss something there or was there supposed to be a point to it? (I mean that seriously, not sarcastically). If someone could explain that, I'd appreciate it! I don't understand his point of making an army of creatures that won't help him in his loneliness (at least from what it seemed) and they seem a little too easily killed to be too much of a threat if revenge was his motivation. I don't know, I was also a bit lost as to their exact purpose.

But I did love their creepiness factor though.

And I didn't mind these hallways. It was filmed in the basement of an old facility, so most definitely not the same set. I found them realistically creepy. I liked them a lot better than the hallways we saw in Submersion. Those felt old to me. But this set, I really liked.

[Chailyn]

Er, what part are you talking about? Teyla's face is clearly visible in every close up while she is lying on that table. There are no shots where just her breasts fill the screen as you seem to imply. In every shot, it's her whole body, or a close-up of her face and chest. And might I add, Michael is also most definitely visible in that first shot when it starts with a close-up of Teyla and the camera slowly pans back.

I swear there was a shot that encompassed just her chest before we saw that she was strapped down. I'll have to watch it again. I apologise now if I'm wrong. To be honest, I could care less if Teyla even started walking around naked. I have more problems with her damsel in distress characterization this season.

I do agree with you though on Michael's experiment. Did I miss something there or was there supposed to be a point to it? (I mean that seriously, not sarcastically). If someone could explain that, I'd appreciate it! I don't understand his point of making an army of creatures that won't help him in his loneliness (at least from what it seemed) and they seem a little too easily killed to be too much of a threat if revenge was his motivation. I don't know, I was also a bit lost as to their exact purpose.

But I did love their creepiness factor though.

Yeah, this was the let down for me. Michael kept really going on before about how he had nowhere to belong. He wasn't Human and he wasn't Wraith. How do these creatures give him a community? Michael kept them sectioned off and released them when he wanted them to attack. Maybe he's given up? He did say he needed them for protection, but could making them smarter really hurt? I just didn't like it.

Then, Ronon was taking them out like crazy at the end. Are we supposed to assume they're going to be a serious problem for Atantis? Even Michael says they're nothing more than animals. So...Atlantis is going to have a pest control problem? Even pitbulls seemed smarter than these things. I was hoping they'd at least have advanced psychic connections that would make them harder to fight, or be efficient pack hunters like ants. I don't know. Michael and his pitbugs. Hope they get proper vet care.

And I didn't mind these hallways. It was filmed in the basement of an old facility, so most definitely not the same set. I found them realistically creepy. I liked them a lot better than the hallways we saw in Submersion. Those felt old to me. But this set, I really liked.

Yeah, I did like the feeling the set gave, but maybe they should have spaced the episodes out. We've had hallway walking in Echoes, The Ark, Submersion, Vengeance, etc. It just feels like overkill lately, imo. But, I did like the creepy tone.

[expendable_crewman]

2) American military mindset vs. Pegasus mindset (a.k.a common sense)

Sheppard doesn't know how to cut his losses in this situation, and I think that's a result of his looking at the situation as a typical Earth military conflict, where you capture the enemy and question them and rely on intel to make decisions. You can't fight like that in Pegasus. You know the enemy's agenda: to destroy you. All you can hope to do is destroy them first. That's what Ronon's trying to hammer home, and I think a little bit of it may have gotten into Shep's thick skull. The expedition has been expecting the Pegasus Galaxy to adapt to them in some ways; here we get it hammered home that they're going to have to adapt to the Pegasus Galaxy.

Sometimes you need to question the enemy. And sometimes you need to put a bullet in his/her/its brain. The Atlantis team needs to get better at figuring out which instances are which, and Ronon's speech indicated that.

Yes, I think we can safely say that Ronon taking Sheppard down a peg was my favorite part of this episode. It was a fantastic moment of Ronon asserting himself, not because he's stubborn but because he's right, and Jason played it very well.
and it also reminds us all that poor Shep really only has control of his off-world team in the most nominal sense. Which I actually like about this show. It just makes it that much better when he is in control.

Interesting points, some of which never before occurred to me. I swung between Ronon's POV and Sheppard's, ultimately deciding the conflict was entertaining for what it was.

Agreed, Jason Momoa was good.

The dynamic of Sheppard's team is a plus for me as well. I liked the change in the way he asserts control in this ep versus, say, the way he ran things in the Ark ... mainly because he can let the reins out (or have them yanked out) and he can snap them in tight without looking like (for lack of a better way of putting it) something in the back end of him has puckered.

On Teyla's B-Shot:
There are actually viewers (okay, one ... at least: me) who has made it through many SGA eps without ever noticing Teyla's cleavage, swells, hollows, or whatever it is that's ruffling the feathers ... until some unhappy fan brings it up online.

I saw an Iratus bug crawling up her body and that's all I saw until I re-watched looking for what some folks were complaining about.

Now, if it had been Sheppard on the table, Sheppard in a black T-shirt for example, I'd have had to go back and re-watch to see the Iratus bug.

But that's me.

[Night Spring]

I think people complaining about close-ups of Teyla's chest is the same thing as people complaining about too much hall-walking. If this had been the only episode this season with the characters running through hallways, I would have said without hesitation that it was very well done, with sufficient suspense and creepiness. Coming as it did, right on the tail of two other hall-walking episodes, I feel like, "Oh, please. Not again." Same with shots of Teyla's chest. If her breasts weren't so often emphasized in the course of this series, I'd have no problem with the closeups in this episode, as they actually, for once, had a purpose besides displaying her breasts. However, since this is like the n-tenth time I've seen her breasts on display, I'm going, "Oh, please. Not again."

Although... there can never be enough shots of Shep in his tight black t-shirts! And I want Rodney in tight t-shirts too!

[expendable_crewman]

I think people complaining about close-ups of Teyla's chest is the same thing as people complaining about too much hall-walking. If this had been the only episode this season with the characters running through hallways, I would have said without hesitation that it was very well done, with sufficient suspense and creepiness. Coming as it did, right on the tail of two other hall-walking episodes, I feel like, "Oh, please. Not again." Same with shots of Teyla's chest. If her breasts weren't so often emphasized in the course of this series, I'd have no problem with the closeups in this episode, as they actually, for once, had a purpose besides displaying her breasts. However, since this is like the n-tenth time I've seen her breasts on display, I'm going, "Oh, please. Not again."

Although... there can never be enough shots of Shep in his tight black t-shirts! And I want Rodney in tight t-shirts too!

Well, that's fine, I guess. So long as people realize that from others' points of view the emphasis comes more from the fans than the show.

Me, I went back to the scene, saw that yes indeed the woman has breasts, and so what.

Rodney in tight T-shirts? There you go. I agree.

But I do think it's time we admit Sheppard in T-shirts is a bit of a distraction. I bet it's done to boost ratings among a certain demographic. As much as we love our visual aids, we should be bigger than this and stand up for a completely covered up Shep. Learning to do without the black T-shirts, nice pects, and nice biceps will make us stronger and better people.

[joebags]

I've thought of doing the drinking game every time Teyla's upper half was front and center, but I don't think I'd make it to the 2nd commercial.

But I do think it's time we admit Sheppard in T-shirts is a bit of a distraction. I bet it's done to boost ratings among a certain demographic. As much as we love our visual aids, we should be bigger than this and stand up for a completely covered up Shep. Learning to do without the black T-shirts, nice pects, and nice biceps will make us stronger and better people.

I've never seen Shep shirtless, or even exposing chest, but then I don't exactly look for it. If Teyla was covered a bit more without the camera hitting us over the head that she is female, she would be much sexier.

The phoney bugs weren't that bad, but I don't expect perfection with a TV show that has a limited budget, but I wish Michael had a bit more development. He wasn't as interesting as I expected him to be.

[vaberella]

This is the quote from Luz saying that she watched the Teyla jumping scene in question and giving her opinion. I also just rewatched it in slow motion backwards and forwards. She jumps over what I believe to be a log, but in no way can I tell that the height of her jump is anything any reasonably athletic young person running for her life couldn't do.

Now can we please stop nitpicking every opinion that might disagree with yours and get back to discussing Vengeance?

Are you speaking to me? Because if you are, apparently we can't, since you not only bothered to answer me but to also quote, Luz?. That being said, you quoted her and disagreed with her statement proving that she was incorrect that Teyla just 'ran' over the log in Rising2. She as you even agreed to say jumped. As for any athletic person doing that might be the case, but watch John behind her, he was running behind her and he ran over the log, didn't jump it. You can see she jumped, and of course with the use of strings, but it was done with the same affect. My point then has been made. You can say athletic, because I'll agree to that, but since John who I find to be very athletic and in the same situation didn't do that, but Teyla did, I put that down to her abilities.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm all for on topic posts. As for Vegeance...as I mentioned before, great ep, really good if we're looking at team and action. Plus I liked the affect of an added enemy, I wonder how mindless these bugs are since they have merged ith human DNA. This could prove interesting in the future, since evolution and with the amount of tests Michael has been doing can lead to the 'Teyla's lineage' situation, a new breed of something. And let's say that one of Michael's enemies gets rid of him and what happens to the hundreds of Iratus bug/mutants. Further more I'd like to know how these suckers reproduce and if they work like roaches...because if that's the case, the Atlantis people and those of the PG just have an extremely formidable enemy---since they probably even surpass the wraith.

With that in mind, I like where this could lead....and it shows how many more enemies the Atlantis team inadvertently created and just have, the Genii, the Wraith, Michael, Michael's drones (since they coudl go rogue if the writers choose), the Asurans----and people who know the story of how they caused the mass amount of wraith. Man, S4 will rock.

[Luz]

The phoney bugs weren't that bad, but I don't expect perfection with a TV show that has a limited budget, but I wish Michael had a bit more development. He wasn't as interesting as I expected him to be.

Another movie they copied from paid homage to, "the Island of Doctor Mureau", making Michael the ridiculous mad scientist is not nearly as bad as

Irresponsible

Spoiler:

killing Kolya on some cheesy "semi-western in a dutch village" episode,

but only because they didn't kill him, 'cause the episode was as cheesy as they come. With Teyla in the role of the 'scream queen' with the heaving bosom, the recycled corridors, and the obviously plastic figure of a monster.

I'll need some crackers and wine to digest all that cheese.