The Ark (316)

[prion]

Somebody, sorry not sure who, said

and the list goes on. Don't you find that to be done on purpose? Maybe as a non-shipper, you don't. That sort of c*** is what annoys shippers to no end. They think they are giving us something for everybody, but what they end up doing is making everybody unhappy.

Ship, by definition, is a fanfic term coined out of ye olden days of X-Files for fans who wanted Mulder and Scully together. It a fan fiction term which slowly bled into the vernacular.

The reason why producers are wary of pairing off any leads is that it KILLS ratings - unless you're doing a soap type show like Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy, which are basically all about personal relationships. The Stargates are action-adventure episodic shows. They do well in syndication, whereas shows that have continuing storylines, like soaps, tend to do less well (Dallas bombed).

The producers don't cater to shippers anymore than they do to whump fans or slash fans. They're aiming for the biggest, broadcast audience they can attain. Action/adventure, drama, maybe a hint of UST (unresolved sexual tension) is what you're going to get on SGA. It's the UST that keep the *viewers* coming back. Resolve it, and you will lose some audience. It's a proven fact.

I'd hate to see SGA fandom dissovle into some of the bitterness and rancor I've seen in *some* parts of SG1 fandom because of the S/J ship thing; it's been drawn out so long some fans are just totally disgusted.

Leave 'ship' for fan fiction, as that's where it was born.

Meanwhile, this IS a "The Ark" thread, so I should talk about it. The rest above is really off-topic.

Does everybody in the PG have intertial dampeners, as Shep sorta should have been a splat on the windshield after crashing, er, landing the shuttle/glider.

ANd what did the 1,000 people 'reintegrated' do for food, water, etc. on such a barren world?

Did like the end scene with Teyla and Shep in the infirmary.... "Yes, I think even for Rodney," says Teyla to which Shep grumbles "Maybe." Aw........

[LoveConquers]

ETA: I knew we'd keep missing each other's posts, lol. I agree to an extent with your friend, but some rules are rules because they just make sense. I'm an Air Force youngin' (certainly no veteran), so it all may just be fresh in my mind, but most military principals truly are time-tested and smart.

LOL! Oh definitely. We meant that tongue-in-cheek.

[LoveConquers]

The producers don't cater to shippers anymore than they do to whump fans or slash fans. They're aiming for the biggest, broadcast audience they can attain. Action/adventure, drama, maybe a hint of UST (unresolved sexual tension) is what you're going to get on SGA.

Here I most definitely agree. While I do think ship can be done and done in Sci-Fi without killing a show, it's not going to happen for SGA. It's not the intended purpose of this particular show. And I wholeheartedly agree that no matter what category we class ourselves, we're not going to be catered to in the big picture.

Meanwhile, this IS a "The Ark" thread, so I should talk about it. The rest above is really off-topic.

Does everybody in the PG have intertial dampeners, as Shep sorta should have been a splat on the windshield after crashing, er, landing the shuttle/glider.

ANd what did the 1,000 people 'reintegrated' do for food, water, etc. on such a barren world?

Agree, let's get back to Ark! I've posted more than my own share of OT posts in the last hour. As for the barren world, it was my understanding it is the result of their self-imposed nuclear fallout. As for what they planned to do now that they've been reintegrated? Good question! Start over? That was their stated plan at least. Who knows what preparations they made in that regard.

[Mitchell82]

I apologize for going off-topic, but I don't understand what complaining about the supposed lack of Elizabeth has to do with this ep? This is the Ark episode thread. Why are some Elizabeth fans feeling the need to complain in this particular thread?

Just to point out, next to John and Rodney, she is the third most represented character. When you look at our other main characters--Carson, Ronon, and Teyla--Elizabeth has a lot more overall screen time than any of the rest of them. She's been given several meaty roles this year, including her own episode. And I love Elizabeth, so I think it's great. I can understand the frustration at her not being used in more creative roles sometimes, but I do not understand these complaints at her not having enough screen time, especially in light of our other main characters who have had even less attention.

Just to be clear I wasnt complaining but just saying that i understand why some fans are upset about it.

[LoveConquers]

Just to be clear I wasnt complaining but just saying that i understand why some fans are upset about it.

Oh I'm sorry, I just grabbed yours as the last comment. My apologies. I did understand your comment was just that, a comment to someone's else complaint. I'll go back and edit you out of there.

[prion]

Agree, let's get back to Ark! I've posted more than my own share of OT posts in the last hour. As for the barren world, it was my understanding it is the result of their self-imposed nuclear fallout. As for what they planned to do now that they've been reintegrated? Good question! Start over? That was their stated plan at least. Who knows what preparations they made in that regard.

Yeah, one day you've got a STarbucks, the next, a hole in the ground. It's like shipwrecking a bunch of people on a desert island (without tv producers trailing you around with cameras). and Shep landed in, hmm, looked like a pretty parched desert! sure as heck hope they decided to relocate the device/shuttle to a more hospitable habitat cuz there's no way the Atlantis crew is gonna ship in that many litlte bottles of Evian water for 1,000 people....

[LoveConquers]

Yeah, one day you've got a STarbucks, the next, a hole in the ground. It's like shipwrecking a bunch of people on a desert island (without tv producers trailing you around with cameras). and Shep landed in, hmm, looked like a pretty parched desert! sure as heck hope they decided to relocate the device/shuttle to a more hospitable habitat cuz there's no way the Atlantis crew is gonna ship in that many litlte bottles of Evian water for 1,000 people....

LOL! And with 200 kids in the bunch, we can guess who Rodney will delegate to that duty if he has any say in the matter. I see more braids in Zalenka's future.

[GateByte]

I'm with you 100% there. Yes, he is the lead of the show, and deserves a decent amount of screen time. However, if you're going to look at it in those terms, right behind Joe, second in the opening credits, is Torri. By that theory, she should also have a decent amount of screen time. I haven't seen the latest episodes (I'm in Australia, and haven't resorted to.. other means... to view the series..) but I've heard from others that it's been extremely light-on for Elizabeth moments lately. And I've seen several season three episodes as a result of a trip to the US and Canada recently.

The three leads are Shep/Weir/McKay. In my honest opinion, those are the three characters/actors who gel the best. They have the most chemistry. Logic would tell you that the three should be front and centre in most episodes. What we do get is plenty of Shep/McKay, but not so much Shep/Weir or McKay/Weir.

As for McKay getting a lot of episodes/moments for himself. Take a look at David Hewlett. Seriously. He runs rings around everyone. The man can take a script that's average and turn it into something amazing. His chemistry with the rest of the cast is unequalled. That's why he gets so much screen time. He can do anything they ask of him.

For me, the more Shep/Weir/McKay, Shep/Weir, or Weir/McKay moments the better. Throw a little Zelenka in there for good measure (the character is just way too cute!) and that's enough to keep me happy.

I couldn't agree with you more. Those three, for me anyways, are the reason I love the show so much. By not giving Elizabeth screen time comparable to McKay/Shep, they're losing something in the team dynamic. Although they do seem to have stepped up on the Shep/Weir, McKay/Weir interactions, they are still dragging significantly behind the Shep/McKay interactions. One of my favourite, if not the favourite, episodes is 'The Storm/Eye' because of the interactions between all of them. Plus there was a nice helping of Zelenka/McKay and that's never a bad thing .

I don't think I could say anything about DH that you haven't already, the man in unrivaled in his ability to turn even bad scripts into something that is at least watchable. He's basically the glue that holds things together, because he has such great chemistry with everyone.

Even though 'The Ark' was totally lacking on almost all fronts, I think you'll enjoy the rest of the season .

And since this is an episode thread, I guess I'll just add that although I did like the sets they had built and the story had the 'potential' to be good, I felt it wasn't executed in the best manner, nor was the ending anything spectacular. The story has been done a hundred times over in Star Trek, for example, and has been delivered in a much better way. We did get a few more 'team' moments, but nothing that would warrant me watching it again in the near future.

[misha]

The three leads are Shep/Weir/McKay. In my honest opinion, those are the three characters/actors who gel the best. They have the most chemistry. Logic would tell you that the three should be front and centre in most episodes. What we do get is plenty of Shep/McKay, but not so much Shep/Weir or McKay/Weir.

For me, the more Shep/Weir/McKay, Shep/Weir, or Weir/McKay moments the better.

I completely agree. Some of the better episodes of Atlantis have featured the Sheppard, Weir, McKay dynamic interacting together. They are the heart of the show, imo. I think that's why The Ark didn't entertain me. The episode was missing a key element of the forementioned dynamic: Elizabeth.

[Flowerbud]

Ship, by definition, is a fanfic term coined out of ye olden days of X-Files for fans who wanted Mulder and Scully together. It a fan fiction term which slowly bled into the vernacular.

The reason why producers are wary of pairing off any leads is that it KILLS ratings - unless you're doing a soap type show like Desperate Housewives or Grey's Anatomy, which are basically all about personal relationships. The Stargates are action-adventure episodic shows. They do well in syndication, whereas shows that have continuing storylines, like soaps, tend to do less well (Dallas bombed).

The producers don't cater to shippers anymore than they do to whump fans or slash fans. They're aiming for the biggest, broadcast audience they can attain. Action/adventure, drama, maybe a hint of UST (unresolved sexual tension) is what you're going to get on SGA. It's the UST that keep the *viewers* coming back. Resolve it, and you will lose some audience. It's a proven fact.

I'd hate to see SGA fandom dissovle into some of the bitterness and rancor I've seen in *some* parts of SG1 fandom because of the S/J ship thing; it's been drawn out so long some fans are just totally disgusted.

Leave 'ship' for fan fiction, as that's where it was born.

Television has changed since the days of Moonlighting, the hoary old example usually given that ship kills a show. A lot of action adventure shows, including sci-fi shows, usually have some romantic relationships going on. Ship tends to add a lot of texture and depth to shows and often a great way to expand characterizations. Sometimes, the denigration of romantic relationships feels like an aversion to women.

Also, it's not about catering to different fan groups. On Gateworld, the Shep-Weir Ship thread had a million views, by far the most popular ship thread surpassing the thunking and whumping threads. I think it's most popular heterosexual ship on LiveJournal as well.

I don't watch Stargate for relationship drama, but 3 years of unresolved sexual tension becomes boring and stale. Like all good stories, it needs a sense of momentum. Like Southern Red, I am very annoyed by the inability of TPTB to make a decision about ship. They've clearly hinted at different ships and use ship to promote the show. Then, to tell those fans who like ship, "oh, there's nothing shippy there. It's all about friendship." It's rather disrespectful to the audience.

I want to see the characters grow and develop. I'd love to see Elizabeth have a heart-to-heart with John about his need to be so self-sacrificing. I still don't understand John's behavior sometimes; it's just there.

[Chailyn]

None of them really say how they feel about each other in words, it's more in their actions/reactions. Can you imagine a whole scene of I love you, I care about you, please don't go, we need you? Okay went a bit OTT there, lol, but you get my drift. I would have been puking into a sick bag, lol... sorry maybe that was a bit too much information, lol. I personally prefer the subtleties rather than the writers going for the extreem. As long as I get to see hints here and there i'm fine with that. Nice bonding moments are always a great touch

I understand what you're saying, but I honestly don't think that scene worked. Like I mentioned previously, I did not, at all, from what was put on the screen, get that Sheppard was going on a suicide mission. Obviously, you did. However, I know I'm not the only one who didn't see this. If something as monumental as Sheppard's death is going to be proposed (and taken seriously) then it really has to be clear for the entire audience so that the entire audience can feel the impact of that event. I shouldn't have to come onto a fansite to get it.

I think most of the problem was that the episode's pacing was way off. Nothing really happened in the beginning or middle. We really didn't even get a climax. Everything happened at the end. They find out that Teyla's been sucked into the machine, and then almost instantly Sheppard figures out a plan. There was no sense of build-up or urgency, which is why they probably started the episode with the action scene and then flashed back. I barely had time to compute that Teyla was a goner before Sheppard jumps over the cliff too. Maybe Teyla should have been sucked into the thing in the beginning of the ep, and then the team would have to 'beat the clock' to get her out before the moon burned up. Then, when everything else fails, only then would Sheppard decide on the suicidal plan. I would have got that.

Or, like I said before, all they needed was for Sheppard to have a quick thirty second discussion with Lorne. Lorne is Sheppard's right-hand military man, right? He would be the one replacing Sheppard on Atlantis, at least in the short-term, unless Caldwell pulled for the job. Sheppard's death has more consequences than just the loss of one man, but because of the way it was handled it never entered my mind that Sheppard would need to be replaced. "Take care of my people" or even "Don't let Caldwell screw things up." That's all that was needed to be said. Maybe a salute. No crying. I can't see either of those guys crying.

For me, so much of this episode just felt sloppy. Teyla losing her gun was one of the worst bits. Seriously, all those Teyla/Sheppard and Teyla/Ronon gym scenes have been to show that Earth modern weapons aren't always necessary in a fight, right? Or have they been there merely to egg on shippers and teenage boys? I'm not a shipper or a teenage boy, so I need a reason for these things. This was a perfect opportunity for Teyla to show her stuff, for her to show how her people would handle themselves without a gun. We've seen Teyla's moves. She's awesome! Even without her sticks she should have been able to take out Grandpa.

As for "Teyla just can't win"; she's my second favorite character on the series. And if more screentime means just giving her a grandiose speech, then I say no, she CAN'T win. Give the gal an episode, please! Give her a Sateda, or a TRW, or a Tao of Rodney, or a Common Ground. Echoes was close, but in the second half she was already down for the count.

I agree 100%! You know what? I don't even like her character and I want her to have an episode! How messed up is that? Seriously, though, they can give Teyla all the heart-felt monologues they want, but she needs something to develop her, or else I simply won't care.

[Flowerbud]

I'm with you 100% there. Yes, he is the lead of the show, and deserves a decent amount of screen time. However, if you're going to look at it in those terms, right behind Joe, second in the opening credits, is Torri. By that theory, she should also have a decent amount of screen time. I haven't seen the latest episodes (I'm in Australia, and haven't resorted to.. other means... to view the series..) but I've heard from others that it's been extremely light-on for Elizabeth moments lately. And I've seen several season three episodes as a result of a trip to the US and Canada recently.

The three leads are Shep/Weir/McKay. In my honest opinion, those are the three characters/actors who gel the best. They have the most chemistry. Logic would tell you that the three should be front and centre in most episodes. What we do get is plenty of Shep/McKay, but not so much Shep/Weir or McKay/Weir.

As for McKay getting a lot of episodes/moments for himself. Take a look at David Hewlett. Seriously. He runs rings around everyone. The man can take a script that's average and turn it into something amazing. His chemistry with the rest of the cast is unequalled. That's why he gets so much screen time. He can do anything they ask of him.

For me, the more Shep/Weir/McKay, Shep/Weir, or Weir/McKay moments the better. Throw a little Zelenka in there for good measure (the character is just way too cute!) and that's enough to keep me happy.

I absolutely agree. Shep/Weir/McKay are the heart of the show. They are the strongest actors on the show and have terrific chemistry with each other.

[RoryJ]

I agree 100%! You know what? I don't even like her character and I want her to have an episode! How messed up is that? Seriously, though, they can give Teyla all the heart-felt monologues they want, but she needs something to develop her, or else I simply won't care.

Yes! While The Ark wins points for at least giving Teyla something to do, couldn't there have been some other way for her to accidently end up in the machine except for sloppily losing her gun? The woman can take out any guy in Atlantis and a fully armed Wraith any day of the week. Blah. On the other hand, I don't think this was meant to be a Teyla episode. Which leaves it pointless. It was no one's episode. If anybody shined, it was Rodney for his "we leave no one behind" line. That's it. Nothing was accomplished, no one grew, we learned nothing new. And I still didn't get my proper Teyla fix. *grumbles*

[Chailyn]

Yes! While The Ark wins points for at least giving Teyla something to do, couldn't there have been some other way for her to accidently end up in the machine except for sloppily losing her gun? The woman can take out any guy in Atlantis and a fully armed Wraith any day of the week. Blah. On the other hand, I don't think this was meant to be a Teyla episode. Which leaves it pointless. It was no one's episode. If anybody shined, it was Rodney for his "we leave no one behind" line. That's it. Nothing was accomplished, no one grew, we learned nothing new. And I still didn't get my proper Teyla fix. *grumbles*

Are you in my head?

We're totally having a moment here.

[LiveLongAndProsper]

Television has changed since the days of Moonlighting, the hoary old example usually given that ship kills a show. A lot of action adventure shows, including sci-fi shows, usually have some romantic relationships going on. Ship tends to add a lot of texture and depth to shows and often a great way to expand characterizations. Sometimes, the denigration of romantic relationships feels like an aversion to women.

I'll agree that romance can add character depth and drama to a show, any show. And I do think it's a bit odd for people living so far from home and the dating scene to be celibate. However, maybe TPTB feel that romance has no place on this show, although some UST might keep some viewers watching. I don't have any hard demographics data, but I wonder if they're crafting a show toward a a very broad audience who may be put off by romance between main characters.

Also, it's not about catering to different fan groups. On Gateworld, the Shep-Weir Ship thread had a million views, by far the most popular ship thread surpassing the thunking and whumping threads. I think it's most popular heterosexual ship on LiveJournal as well.

Wow. I don't know how anyone else feels about that, but the need to shout "We're number one! We deserve something!" puts me off a bit. If TPTB catered to the most popular anythings all the time, then surely Mulder and Scully would've been more lovey dovey on screen, and there'd have been an on-screen resolution to the Sam/Jack thing by now. I'd be willing to bet a fair few of those hits are people who check out the ship threads to watch the drama, or the simply curious, or people who flit around reading ALL the ship and character threads but never post anything. I would think that if TPTB cared about 'most populars' a lot of things would be different on lots of shows.

I don't watch Stargate for relationship drama, but 3 years of unresolved sexual tension becomes boring and stale. Like all good stories, it needs a sense of momentum. Like Southern Red, I am very annoyed by the inability of TPTB to make a decision about ship. They've clearly hinted at different ships and use ship to promote the show. Then, to tell those fans who like ship, "oh, there's nothing shippy there. It's all about friendship." It's rather disrespectful to the audience.

I wouldn't says it's disrespectful. Maybe such things are NOT intended, some fans simply want them to be. Why should they apologize or make a decision on that? If it's not in line with TPTB's vision for the show, you're notlikely to see it.