Sunday (317)

[Haliyah]

You need to look up the meaning of plot hole. A general comment by a producer about people dying in sci-fi does not a plothole make.

A character dying is not a plot hole.

I doubt many people watched Carson dying and though 'How are they going to write him back in next week? That'll be difficult."

BYE

Obviously not next week. Duh. TPTB stated that he would be "recurring" in season four. Therefore, I'm wondering how they'll do it.

As for "plot hole," I didn't even know that was an actual term.

[Ace]

Aw, damn you. Now that you've mentioned it, it's going to bother me now, too. *grumbles*

LOL Sorry about that! You know the saying... misery loves company

Ace

[AlphaBlu]

Obviously not next week. Duh. TPTB stated that he would be "recurring" in season four. Therefore, I'm wondering how they'll do it.

Probably for the same reasons everything is (sickeningly) referred to as a 'franchise' these days, to keep their options open in case they ever want to do more of it.

As for "plot hole," I didn't even know that was an actual term.

Then perhaps you should not attempt use it, lest you appear foolish.

BYE

[Oka]

I for one do not see why Carson should be mourned, he caused the deaths of those bomb technicians with his negligence. He should've obeyed orders and only one person would've died. Bad writing or what, what a dumb, unnecessary death.

[AlphaBlu]

When Rodney is packing Carson's room, I thought is was fantastic that Ronon came to check on him, it was a nice continuity to their building friendship. It would have been a cliché if it would have been Sheppard.

I agree. Excellent scene. I have to admit I had tears in my eyes when Rodney said "I just should've gone fishing" and Ronan stopped him.

The other scene was the glance between Sheppard & Rodney before they carry the casket through the gate, their silence spoke volume.

That bit was perfect. They didn't need a whole scene together - just a single look was enough to sum up everything they were both going through. Very nicley put together, acted and directed perfectly.

BYE

[Haliyah]

LOL Sorry about that! You know the saying... misery loves company

Ace

xD Yes, yes it does.

[Haliyah]

Probably for the same reasons everything is (sickeningly) referred to as a 'franchise' these days, to keep their options open in case they ever want to do more of it.

I didn't say why, I said how, but I do agree with you about the franchise bit. The question is, how much is too much? How many incarnations of Stargate are the fans willing to take?

Then perhaps you should not attempt use it, lest you appear foolish.

Perhaps you shouldn't be so condescending simply because not everyone is versed in dramatic terminology. I apologise for unknowingly misusing it.

[ShadowMaat]

I can agree to that aswell... but I don't think TPTB thought that killing Carson was going to boost the ratings. They obviously did it for reasons unknown to any of us...

I, too, agree that killing off characters as a gimmick/ratings boost/whatever is irritating. And Ace, I'd wager that the reason they killed off Carson was so that they could bring in a Hot Chick to replace him. More eye candy means more ratings in their book. Or someone's book, anyway.

However, while I question their reasons for killing Carson I thought the method was wonderful (or as wonderful as tragedy can be). And while I'm sorry to see him go... I kinda get the feeling TPTB didn't know what to do with him anyway. They made him a lead character, but to what purpose? He sure didn't look as if he was getting lots more development or storylines. So...?

I prefer characters who are actually allowed to DO something and who are allowed to be more than a caricature, a plot device, a mobile prop or an exposition machine. ...Of course, that would eliminate 90% of the cast, but that's probably why I'm not a regular viewer any more. Anyway, as far as Carson goes, while I know a lot of fans are happy with any amount of a favored character they can get, I prefer some substance. And if I can't get substance, well, I'd rather not see the actor wasted in a weak role.

Paul gave it everything he had, I'm sure, but I don't think TPTB returned the favor. If Carson getting killed off means that Paul can now get better roles in productions that will actually use him to the fullest extent, I say more power to him! It's Atlantis's loss if TPTB can't bestir themselves to come up with quality material.

I loved the insights we got into Carson in this ep and it's a shame that it has to end here, but great character-defining pieces like Sunday are the exception to the rule rather than the rule itself. We should probably count ourselves lucky we got anything at all and bless whatever almighty forces allowed Martin to go ahead with this story when it was initially blocked.

I shudder to think how, say, Joe Mallozzi might have handled Carson's departure. Probably nibbled to death by lemmings while Shep and McKay were busy flirting with a scantily-clad native girl in the next room.

[ToasterOnFire]

I shudder to think how, say, Joe Mallozzi might have handled Carson's departure. Probably nibbled to death by lemmings while Shep and McKay were busy flirting with a scantily-clad native girl in the next room.

Ah yes, Monty Pyton comes to mind:

"Look, that lemming's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer!"
"Get stuffed!"
"He'll do you up a treat, mate."
"Oh, yeah?"
"You mangy Scots git!"
"I'm warning you!"
"What's he do, nibble your bum?"
"He's got huge, sharp-- eh-- he can leap about-- look at the bones!"

[ShoDar]

Or Ronon..

Nah...Ronon belongs to McKay

You need to look up the meaning of plot hole. A general comment by a producer about people dying in sci-fi does not a plothole make.

A character dying is not a plot hole.

I doubt many people watched Carson dying and though 'How are they going to write him back in next week? That'll be difficult."

Agreed.

Obviously not next week. Duh. TPTB stated that he would be "recurring" in season four. Therefore, I'm wondering how they'll do it.

Where/when did they say this? I just tried to find it on the savecarson site and all I could find was a vague "maybe" about how nobody is ever really dead. What that implies to me is that they don't want to say for sure in case they want to do something with it, but it doesn't seem to imply at all that Carson will be recurring in S4.

[Copernicus]

I for one do not see why Carson should be mourned, he caused the deaths of those bomb technicians with his negligence. He should've obeyed orders and only one person would've died. Bad writing or what, what a dumb, unnecessary death.

That one person was his patient, however. Doctors think differently than soldiers.

[jtjaforever]

Never posted in this thread before but I just had to comment on what a wonderful ep I thought this was. I just watched it again for maybe the fourth/fifth-who knows . Anyway, the performances of all was beyond outstanding. The emotional charge of losing a *family* member so suddenly and then you realize so deeply loved(Rodney's admission of his closeness to Carson). I have not been following this full thread, therefore what I have to say will likely be less bias as a result(at least I hope so - LOL). I love the character of Carson and was sad that this had to happen yet I hold out the fact that like soaps in SciFi no one stays dead forever(okay, I'm stretching, but I can wish).

I briefly read in some post about Carson spending his *off* day essentially alone. As a writer, the scenario is a classic plot device, but in real life the possiblities of the events playing out as they did is very real. McKay cancelled at the last minute. Others were already engaged in activities, like Zelenka & Lorne. I think as Lorne said had he caught him earlier in the day he would not have hestitated to go, the same w/Zelenka. When Carson relieves the other doctor because of her headaches she calls him a *lifesaver* , Elizabeth referred to him as a *healer* - that is what Carson was. He spent his day doing what he loved and did best. I don't think he would have had it any other way(remember his fear in Phantoms).

As for the other performances as I said - all outstanding. It was nice to see the expedition as *people* not just expedition members. It was also good to see Weir out of her office and interacting as a *woman* not just the *boss*. It was also a nice glimpse into a friendship moment between Liz/Teyla when she reveal why she was cancelling on lunch. I think that scene also helps to show that Liz/Teyla are possibly closer than many believe. It is only a hour long show so only so much can be highlighted in that time, but I liked this little peek into their *girl*ship , it would be nice to expound on that more because these two women have so much in common.

I will finish this by saying I love this show and this ep in particular because I love the aspect of how people can come together and care deeply for each other and a worthwhile cause despite their differences. It was what drew me to FS, it is what draws me to SGA. S3 has had it low moments granted but by far it has been excellent in showcasing the growing Atlantis *family* and I hope it continues as such. One of my fav lines from FS was Zhaan commenting about how the crew of Moya had become her family of sorts. JC's reply was "yeah, a Jerry Springer kinda family, but family none the less" or something along those lines - LOL. I said that to said this the Atlantis family is sometimes dysfunctional, but it *is* becoming family and w/eps like this I think the series will do well into S4.

Okay, essay done. Thanks for listening.

[AlphaBlu]

The lemming thing is getting old. Mallozzi's comments about the fandom, whilst as abrupt as always, were true. Too many people cry out about stuff they know nothing about - exactly the point I made in my earlier post.

BYE

[Jenner8675309]

The lemming thing is getting old. Mallozzi's comments about the fandom, whilst as abrupt as always, were true. Too many people cry out about stuff they know nothing about - exactly the point I made in my earlier post.

BYE

Eh, everyone is just having fun with it. It started out pretty rabid, but now its all about humor and there is alot of self-mocking in the thread. Its still pretty humorous to some. And in the grand scope of all of Stargate fandowm worldwide (what, millions?) its a drop in the ocean. But if it bothers you, stay away from the thread.

Regarding the ep., I thought it could have used some work. Yeah it was good and it was great to see the interactions, but I thought the Weir and whats-his-name stuff was akward. And even though it was nice to see Weir and Teyla "girl talk", it really wasn't much. But there were quite a few "little things" I loved - the chess scene, Beckett "reeling" McKay in, Beckett being told "shut up" by Weir after saying she "Smells good too.." etc etc. Those were real interactions that most of us have had with good friends - acting silly, teasing or being beaten badly at a game. Those small things were priceless.

BYE

[Psyku]

found the ep kind of a mix between doctor frasier's death and when daniel wen't beyond. oooh well

not a bad ep just a tad bit to fast for me. well the writers are getthing a bit lazy .

and if to where bring him back! then i wan't a Damn good plot twist.(edit)

hmmm perhaps he was already an acient and just messed with us all