Michael (218)

[Bucky]

While am among those who think it was a really stupid plot device to have "Michael" in Atlantis at all, I still found the episode compelling. Given that our regulars seem to have take leave of their senses, I attribute this entirely to Connor Trinneer who played "Michael." I was spoiled from the outset on this episode, but I still could see Michael as a confused amnesiac--as I suppose was the intent of the writers. And Trinneer really sold the "What gives you the right to do this to me?" For the space of the episode, the Wraith were not just malevolent predators on humans, they were an intelligent life form as worthy of existence as any other. It's hard to have sympathy for a Wraith, but Trinneer made me see the situation from "Michael's" p.ov.

Well done.

Bucky

[nccjones]

I gave it a good, but now that I think about it, I should have given it an excellent. It really was that good. I thought it was a departure from the norm which I like every now and then. Connor Trinear is amazing! I loved him as Trip in Enterprise. I felt he brought a great character to life who I feel we won't see the last of. I have a feeling he won't go back to being completely wraith and will retain a bit of his human side which is going to end up eating at him (no pun intended).

I agree that there wasn't enough Rodney, but what little there was of him was amazing as usual. I loved his scene with Michael in the commissary. Rodney didn't act all freaked out like I would have expected him to, he was calm and really wanted to understand Michael. That was actually one of the best scenes of the episode to me. I even really liked Teyla in this episode. She is definately growing on me. I'm really starting to like her as part of the team. She was great with Michael and I was even expecting a little bit of ship to happen. I didn't care for how Micheal was so easily able to control her though. That's some talent of Teyla's to etch the symbols from behind into stone...lol.

Shepard was kind of annoying in this episode and I don't normaly find him that way. I don't know what it was but he just kept grating on my nerves. I'll just suffice that to his role in this episode, he really didn't have a whole lot to do.

Ronan Ronan Ronan. Sorry guys, every week I dislike more and more. I keep saying what good is he and everyone responds...."well, he can track Wraith"....and I'm like ok, what else? And the one good line of Shepard's proved my point. Shepard "Do that thing you do"...Ronan giving him a look. Shepard "among other the...things....you do". What other things? Oh yeah, being a bouncer, I forgot that. His attack on Michael while sparring with Teyla. That scene just made me cringe! I know he has a hatred for the Wraith for all the years they hunted him, but it's the only thing they pretty much show with him. They need to give him another quality or skill to let his character grow besides being a brooding muscle bound bouncer.

Other than that...I really enjoyed this episode and hope to see Michael again in the future. I do believe his conscious will start eating at him and he will be the key to defeating the Wraith.

[vaberella]

I cannot blame any of the characters this time around because they were so far out of character I had to step back and just look at this episode and go...'what the h*** was that'

As for John, I have never seen him fail to state his opinion on an issue and he does not seem anymore subdued because of the incident in 'Hot Zone'. He disobeyed a direct order from Cln Everett after he removed Weir and stood up for her before following his orders. The way he stood up to him was really enough grounds for dismissal, but he did what he felt was right. I don't see him leashed in the slightest.

He will not always agree with Weir, but I don't see him holding back any advice or opinions from her. I also feel, that given everything he knows now, if he had to live the whole virus incident over again, he would have done exactly the same thing.

Also in 'Coup D'etat, he was hesitant becaude he did not trust Laden. Good for him and score! Now, he looses that point he just scored by visiting Cowen and seemingly trusting him over Laden. As you put it.....as a military official, I would expect him to know better.

Yes they were far removed from their normal character. But I can lay blame because the characters were still there. It wasn't like I was watching another show....so by saying what your saying then there shouldn't then be any discussion at all. When there obviously is.

This starts one place...Michael should never ever ever ever have been brought back to Atlantis. That is no.1 That should never have been done, and I think we can agree with this. Who then makes such a decision? It is not John, it is not Carson ultimately?! Is it!? No. It's the individual who is the head of Atlantis. Period. And this was made clear in the meeting where all of the stood and John made a recommendation (because HE was against this Michael roaming free even if he allowed him brought to base) and what happened? He was dismissed and shot down. Because again he follows orders. They'll take his word into consdieration and value his statements but he was not recognized. And does it make sense that he would allow it? He would defend it but would he really allow it? Did you see 'Suspicion'? This was the same thing. He hated that they treated Teyla like the enemy, and her people, but what happened? In the end he was the one to have to convince her. And we all know he hated the decision Weir and Bates made. It's the same thing here.

He can recognize a purpose and follow through. In 'Hot Zone' he blatatly disregarded her order..it was a goog thing, but I was also angry about the dissention, but he did save everyone's life. But since then I have not seen him again WEIR. Your talking about Evereet from season 1. That's not Weir. I'm speakign of blatantly dismissing her like he did in 'Hot Zone'. There is no denyig he would defend Weir, he's done it with Teyla, he's done it with outsiders..and it's clear even if doesn't like her decisions he follows through because he takes orders from no one else,and further more she's his friend and colleague. I won't even deny that.

But since Hot Zone I have not seen a real forceful fight over her decisions...have you? And please name and list it in Season 2 and parts of season 1. In season 1 during the siege she didn't feel it was a good idea to fly out, but he even said he had to do it (fly that suicide mission) and she conceded, but it wasnt' a real battle.

Now again I strongly feel he did go against this..but when we come in it's about in my estimation weeks later, but it still could be days later when the decision was made. My statement was about him involved in teh kidnapping, and I felt he disagreed with it and especially bringing it back to base. But we're days later or more probably weeks later and the decisoin was made now we have to follow through. And in following it through you have to sort of beleive it.

It's like Vietnam....how would it have looked if Johnson had pulled out the men about 2 years after going in and seeing it was a bad idea? He would have looked even stupider..but he still looked stupid even when he left the men there. When your stuck in a position and you have an order to carry out you do so, unless of course you want out off of Atlantis..because not following one could lead to that..as implied in 'Hot Zone'.

I didn't think he trusted Cowen over Laden..he had a healthy dose of suspicion for both. But with Laden he was on a mission to take over Atlantis with Kolya and Kolya has posed a nasty threat against Atlantis more so than Cowen in the past. And as such he was very weary of Laden in that case. But I saw the ep..and I do not think he trusted Cowen.

VB

[vaberella]

Ronan Ronan Ronan. Sorry guys, every week I dislike more and more. I keep saying what good is he and everyone responds...."well, he can track Wraith"....and I'm like ok, what else? And the one good line of Shepard's proved my point. Shepard "Do that thing you do"...Ronan giving him a look. Shepard "among other the...things....you do". What other things? Oh yeah, being a bouncer, I forgot that. His attack on Michael while sparring with Teyla. That scene just made me cringe! I know he has a hatred for the Wraith for all the years they hunted him, but it's the only thing they pretty much show with him. They need to give him another quality or skill to let his character grow besides being a brooding muscle bound bouncer.

I was thinking of your past posts NCCJONES, how did I know you'd say the above?...I can see why you have a problem..and definitely saw what you meant at how he helped in causing the problems they had with Michael at the base....

So man I can't blame you..although I still think that Ronon can be redeemed.
VB

[nccjones]

I was thinking of your past posts NCCJONES, how did I know you'd say the above?...I can see why you have a problem..and definitely saw what you meant at how he helped in causing the problems they had with Michael at the base....

So man I can't blame you..although I still think that Ronon can be redeemed.
VB

I actually agree with you and if you notice, I even hinted at given Ronan something more to his personality or qualities than just a knuckle dragging grunt. I don't like him now because of the way they portray him. I can give him leeway if they try to improve the character.

Last year I totally despised the character Teyla and I still don't care for her when I see first season episodes, but I feel her acting has improved tremendously since last year. She is not as wooden and has really grown as a character. They need to do that with Ronan...his character needs to grow and it hasn't since he's been on the team. In real life, I could not believe they would allow such a person to be apart of such an important mission. Just wouldn't fly.

[Tracker]

Okay, here's my take. Some things people have already said, but dangit, I'm too sick to read all 11 pages

Anyways..

1) I appreciate that actors' schedule have to be accomidated, but honestly people. You really missed McKay in this ep. Love him or hate him, during the large conference scenes, he would have been there giving his opinon. Repeatly. I did like the mess hall scene with him and Michael, but why wasn't the head of the science dept in on these meetings??

However, on a second viewing, it seemed to me that McKay was against the whole thing. There is one fairly telling scene when the gang has to decide whether or not to increase the dosage, and McKay gives the real sarcastic "I told you so" look to Elizabeth's back. Like he was saying, "See? Why didn't you listen to me??"
I don't know if its me reading too much into DH's performance, or if it was intended. But watch the episode with that in mind. It kinda works. Also if McKay was disgusted with the whole thing, that might explain his absence.

2) The guards in the med lab. Okay, I'll give you Beckett being really dang tired, but HELLO? Where were Mumbo and Jumbo? Getting coffee? Didn't they see Michael rifle through Beckett's stuff?

3) As for the tech part. Michael is recognizing Wraith technology. In some amnesia cases, a person will forget personal information, but retain skills and knowladge associated with a profession or basic everyday life (no one's questioned if he knew how to use a toilet!). He picked up the fight moves with Teyla pretty dang quick. Plus, there's been a computer in his room the whole time. Chances are, he either could figure out for himself how to use it, or someone showed him off-camera.

4) Why not do this on the Alpha site? Okay, I agree with most of you there. However, the Alpha site looks pretty primitive, and there's the possibility that they just didn't think that it could be set up for the transformation in time. But I agree, they should have moved him as soon as they were sure he was going to wake up.

5)As for the whole complaint of "Oh, no. The Wraith are coming...again!" It's gotten kinda dull without them. Plus, how bad a threat are they when they haven't figured out that Atlantis didn't really blow up? I mean, really...the Genii figured it out fairly quickly. Atlantis's non-destruction seemed to have become the worst kept secret in the Peguses Galaxy.

All in all, I really did like this episode. I was a little darker than normal, being the good guys weren't necessarily in the right. And it brought up the question again of how far they are willing to go to defeat the Wraith?

[ToasterOnFire]

Someone really needs to hide the stupid pills that the people of Atlantis are addicted to 'cause pretty soon our various enemies won't have to lift a finger to conquer us, we'll destroy ourselves out of sheer idiocy.

Damn, it's like Caldwell brought a big bottle of stupid pills over in Critical Mass and they've been sitting on Weir's desk for anyone and everyone to pop.

WHY didn't they do the entire experiment on Michael over on the alpha site? That removes Atlantis from the equation. If Michael did figure out that they were from Atlantis, they could have said that they were survivors after the city blew up in Siege 3. That way Michael wouldn't have known that Atlantis was still around, much less that it was in the same location.

Plus, if they had done the whole thing on the alpha site then

Spoiler:

when Michael got away it would have been less likely that he would have returned and blackmailed the team to become allies. If the writers had to have Michael figure out that Atlantis was still around, couldn't they have had him figure it out on his own rather than making the entire team make such bad decisions?

I hate having to overlook character ineptitude in order to enjoy a show.

[vaberella]

I actually agree with you and if you notice, I even hinted at given Ronan something more to his personality or qualities than just a knuckle dragging grunt. I don't like him now because of the way they portray him. I can give him leeway if they try to improve the character.

Last year I totally despised the character Teyla and I still don't care for her when I see first season episodes, but I feel her acting has improved tremendously since last year. She is not as wooden and has really grown as a character. They need to do that with Ronan...his character needs to grow and it hasn't since he's been on the team. In real life, I could not believe they would allow such a person to be apart of such an important mission. Just wouldn't fly.

I really believe that they will improve Ronon..and based on what I saw in

Spoiler:

Allies

and what I hope to see in season 3, based on spoilers for a continuation of Trinity, entitled Sateda..I think we will see some kind of minimal improvement if not more than that. And I really hope we see planned out failsafes and probably military strategies with Ronon actually putting in valuable input as I'm sure he can..it's gonna be great.

As for Teyla..okay this was written in Shipper format (yes there's shipper language): But if your interested in my estimation of her character without shipperness until later, and it focuses on why her character was wooden. It's 2 paragraghs which come after the first list of eps.. here's the link Teyla Estimation--albeit Shipper.

I completely agree that Teyla was very stilted in season1, and I hope taht my explanation clarifies that....it took me a while to see why she was the way she was and it's very understandable!

[JackGyver]

All in all, I thought it was an excellent episode. A great relief to see that TPTB can still make a good episode, even with all the small plot holes. Michael, the character, is definitely a good addition to the Stargate mythos. I've only skimmed the thread, but I'll see if I can touch on some things that stood out to me.

Moral judgments. I definitely sided with Michael in this episode. I was actually hoping that he'd escape. Having said that though, I can understand why Weir did what she did. They are in a time of war with a viscious, powerful race that could well end up invading and destroying Earth, if they're not careful. And worse, this race cannot be negotiated with. Unless they can give them an alternate food source, or zap them to another galaxy or something, Earth must resort to aggressive tactics to combat the Wraith. Personally, I think Weir has both (A) been pressured/ordered by her higher-ups to begin using tactics like this, and (B) has finally realized the reality of the situation as I said above. So I both understand Weir's side and Michael's side. It's a terrible, difficult dilemma.

I'm surprised there wasn't more visible opposition from certain team members, but I would imagine they all probably recieved a good talking-to from Weir or her superiors about the matter. Shepperd and Beckett were both well-portrayed. Ronon was the one who had it most right, though I disagree with his unwillingness to ever accept a Wraith under any circumstances.

No Caldwell and barely any McKay. So sad.

Spoiler:

I look forward to seeing Michael as a (hopefully) interesting and quality villain in the future.

[mckaychick]

yeah i wasnt to happy about mckay bearly being in the episode. that was not good

[vaberella]

yeah i wasnt to happy about mckay bearly being in the episode. that was not good

I have to agree..I really missed McKay..he's my fave guy on the show. But what's worse..not even one shot of Zalenka, I love Carson..too and you know he really did deserve a bit of character development. So that's important and I'm glad we got that. We got a chance to see the scientist vs. Man....like we saw with McKay in 'Trinity.'

[mckaychick]

Wow i just realzied that zelenka wasnt in it. I was just paying more attention to the mckay bearly in episode. Yikes!

[ShadowMaat]

Actually, I didn't miss McKay all that much. He's been pimped so heavily in so many other eps it's kind of a relief to see him take a back seat once in a while so that we can be reminded that there are other characters on the show.

[mckaychick]

He will at least be back next week in inferno and will probably have much more screen time unlike in michael

[Lida]

Never thought I would say this.....but....Ronon was the only one that had any sense at all in this episode.

This episode would never have worked without Ronon, and finally, the writers have Dex back in character. Let's hope they keep him there.

I thought Connor Trinneer (hope I spelled his name correctly) was terrific as Michael.