The Tower (215)

[Serenity228]

I'm not sure how I feel about Sheppard's alleged "kirking" as of yet. On one hand, he has been with up to three women: Teer, Mara, and Chaya, and flirted with two: nurse at the end of 38 Minutes and

Spoiler:

scientist in Inferno

in a seemingly short time. Whether he was actually intimate with any of the first three women is ambiguous as scenes were cut immediately after kissing was shown. Regardless, those first three women instigated the relationship and then left him at the end. He forced nothing with them, none were under his command, and he is not in a committed relationship. From a viewer's point of view, nothing at all seemed to come of the flirting he instigated.

But on the other hand, so, is this really bad? He didn't love them and leave them as Kirk did. Never once was it assumed that Kirk would stay with any of the women he bedded. John might have stayed with Teer or Chaya had they not gone glowy and disappeared. He even mentioned trying to visit Chaya. And this is three women in two years (more if you consider the "extra" time he spent with Teer) and we must consider that we do not have proof that he had more than "glowy" with Chaya and that he didn't kick Mara out. I think we're pretty sure about Teer.

In the very beginning of The Tower, Rodney was complaining that they went to so many primitive planets. Sheppard says, " They can't all be planets with cool technology and open-minded women." Rodney says, "Why not?" Is Rodney disrespectful to women? No, I don't think so, dumb people , yes, but not women. Rodney saved Elizabeth's life in S1. I think it is just the banter two friends have between each other. Both women and men do it regularly with no disrespect intended.

Is the show generally disrespectful of women in general? No, I don't think so. There are many positve women role models on the show such as Weir and Teyla. Is being with up to three women in two whole years, especially when the women instigated the relationships "kirking?" If it is, than our planet is inundated with kirks of both the male and female gender.

I think the short answer is ratings. I'm sure many of you consider this to be a cop out answer, but sex sells. And I don't think most of us want Team Atlantis to forgo having any relationships, but I do think that maybe the relationships could be handled better so they both pay the bills and leave the characters with their dignities intact.

IMHO

[Serenity228]

Ooooh, and I need to add one more thing:

John says as Mara drops everything, "I never see this coming." I never see this coming?!?

Okay, "babe magnet" aside, how often do girls come up to him and drop all their clothes?

It must be good to have almost been king.

[OutThere]

Okay, this wasn't one of my favorite episodes. There were a few things I liked about it-- believe it or not, Mara was one of them. When she first showed up, I thought she was a one dimentional ditz. By the end, I was thinking she was ditzy like a fox. Between her politically motivated seduction and her bringing Sheppard the radio, I decided that there was a scary brain lurking under that dimwitted facade.

As for Sheppard's behavior-- well, mere hours after landing in the middle of a sticky political situation on a backwards planet, you don't go making out with the leader's daughter, even if she does show up naked in your room! That's just plain stupidity (But as far as I'm concerned, Sheppard and Teer were entitled to make out all they wanted to in Epiphany. They knew each other for months before things turned romantic...). The script should have had him turn Mara down.

[Catsitter]

I only have a couple of things to say about this episode, and then I will try to forget it ever existed (I seem to be saying this about so many Atlantis S2 episodes, and I loved all of S1 except Sanctuary!):

Why didn't the Ancients put the stargate in the city? It makes no sense.

The other one is a very minor point that is seriously starting to bug me. I thought Sheppard had finally sorted out how to introduce his team on a new planet a few episodes previously, and now we are back to, "I'm Sheppard, and this is Ronon, Teyla and McKay". Why do Ronon and Teyla not get the courtesy of their surnames being used when Shep's and Rodney's are? Oh well, like I said, a minor point.

[buzlighty1]

This has to be the worst episode i've watched of the series. Total sleeper. Its the only episode where i was actually hoping the villagers got killed by the drones lol.

[Admiral Mappalazarou]

Awww - once again, Shep got the girl....well, okay he turned her own too.

But that's okay, it's not like he's seen her naked or anythin....lol

This ep was great, full of twists and turns and fun to see how different Atlantis is compared to it's sister show, SG-1. Pegasus is a much weirder place than the Milky Way, but funner it seems.
I half expected this ep to turn into some sort of Romeo & Juliet thing, but it surprised me - and the City ship prototype underground, that was fun to see Rodney go from 'Wow, it's a city ship' to 'OMFG, It's collaspsin!!!'

Great ep. I wuv Atwantis.

[Night Marshal]

I enjoyed Peter Woodward work in the episode even if the character isn't that well writen. Honestly why anyone does much of anything in this episode. I mean this show does one thing its gives atlantis more drones, and a few more jumpers. I was happy to see Peter Woodward other than that I have nothing good to say about this episode.

[david2708]

Immediate entry to the Great Hall of Celluloid Shame.
Shock, horror it was a Malozzi/Mullie episode.
I think a canister of their episodes would be far more dangerous than any old drone.

[meredithchandler73]

Not a fabulous episode, but I suppose I'm very forgiving. I suppose my love of shows is so strong, I just try to focus on the good things.

I liked how Ronan took care of those mean nasty soldiers in the village and Teyla's reaction (or non-reaction) at their deaths. She very calmly radioed that there had been an "altercation" in the village.

I sincerely hope the Kirking will end soon. In Shep's defense, he isn't always out there *trying* to romance the girl, but it's still getting a bit ridiculous.

I thought it was cool that they were going to offer the gene therapy to the villagers in order to level out the playing field. I guess it ended up being unnecessary since the ZPM's power was totally depleted.

And yes, basically the only reason for this episode was so that the team could find more drones and puddle jumpers. But hey - they were gonna need them, right? And perhaps this gives hope that other starship cities are out there to be found, maybe with working ZPMs.

[borgprincess]

I think it's pretty much a given that if there's a pretty girl in the ep, then she and Sheppard are going to hook up, or the ep will be edited ambiguously to suggest that they hooked up. At least they recognize this by poking fun at him about it. What's fun about the Stargate franchise is how self-aware it is. It might rip off or redo a whole lot of cliches and familiar plot lines, but the jokes and one-liners are pretty funny, and they reinterpret it slightly differently in a way that makes it worth watching.

Sheppard: We got the drones, we got a few Jumpers; I even got the girl.
Weir: You got the girl?!
Sheppard: Well, I mean I could have got the girl. I turned her down.

I was just glad that for once they got something out of this little expedition. A lot of the time, they'll go off and help people or end up in some disaster, and come out of it none the better or actually worse off than when they started, but this ep was different and that was good.It's a bit tiring to have disaster after disaster and no reward.

[anulus]

I'm not sure how I feel about Sheppard's alleged "kirking" as of yet. On one hand, he has been with up to three women: Teer, Mara, and Chaya, and flirted with two: nurse at the end of 38 Minutes and

Spoiler:

scientist in Inferno

in a seemingly short time. Whether he was actually intimate with any of the first three women is ambiguous as scenes were cut immediately after kissing was shown. Regardless, those first three women instigated the relationship and then left him at the end. He forced nothing with them, none were under his command, and he is not in a committed relationship. From a viewer's point of view, nothing at all seemed to come of the flirting he instigated.

But on the other hand, so, is this really bad? He didn't love them and leave them as Kirk did. Never once was it assumed that Kirk would stay with any of the women he bedded. John might have stayed with Teer or Chaya had they not gone glowy and disappeared. He even mentioned trying to visit Chaya. And this is three women in two years (more if you consider the "extra" time he spent with Teer) and we must consider that we do not have proof that he had more than "glowy" with Chaya and that he didn't kick Mara out. I think we're pretty sure about Teer.

In the very beginning of The Tower, Rodney was complaining that they went to so many primitive planets. Sheppard says, " They can't all be planets with cool technology and open-minded women." Rodney says, "Why not?" Is Rodney disrespectful to women? No, I don't think so, dumb people , yes, but not women. Rodney saved Elizabeth's life in S1. I think it is just the banter two friends have between each other. Both women and men do it regularly with no disrespect intended.

Is the show generally disrespectful of women in general? No, I don't think so. There are many positve women role models on the show such as Weir and Teyla. Is being with up to three women in two whole years, especially when the women instigated the relationships "kirking?" If it is, than our planet is inundated with kirks of both the male and female gender.

I think the short answer is ratings. I'm sure many of you consider this to be a cop out answer, but sex sells. And I don't think most of us want Team Atlantis to forgo having any relationships, but I do think that maybe the relationships could be handled better so they both pay the bills and leave the characters with their dignities intact.

IMHO

I agree with all of this. Why make the hero of the series drop dead gorgeous? So there will be some romantic moments for the guy. I'd be instigating the relationship too if he landed on my planet!!!!! Give the guy a break and let it be like it is for gorgeous single men in uniform. Cant resist them!!!!

[McClance]

Nice to see Peter Woodward in a non-Crusade role.

I love how they cut immediately from the peasant dinner to the royal dinner--showing the contrast.

[Commander Ivanova]

Bigtime sucker, this ep, right up there with Emancipation from SG1 Season 1.

[Jill_Ion]

I'm not sure how I feel about Sheppard's alleged "kirking" as of yet. On one hand, he has been with up to three women: Teer, Mara, and Chaya, and flirted with two: nurse at the end of 38 Minutes and

Spoiler:

scientist in Inferno

in a seemingly short time. Whether he was actually intimate with any of the first three women is ambiguous as scenes were cut immediately after kissing was shown. Regardless, those first three women instigated the relationship and then left him at the end. He forced nothing with them, none were under his command, and he is not in a committed relationship. From a viewer's point of view, nothing at all seemed to come of the flirting he instigated.

But on the other hand, so, is this really bad? He didn't love them and leave them as Kirk did. Never once was it assumed that Kirk would stay with any of the women he bedded. John might have stayed with Teer or Chaya had they not gone glowy and disappeared. He even mentioned trying to visit Chaya. And this is three women in two years (more if you consider the "extra" time he spent with Teer) and we must consider that we do not have proof that he had more than "glowy" with Chaya and that he didn't kick Mara out. I think we're pretty sure about Teer.

In the very beginning of The Tower, Rodney was complaining that they went to so many primitive planets. Sheppard says, " They can't all be planets with cool technology and open-minded women." Rodney says, "Why not?" Is Rodney disrespectful to women? No, I don't think so, dumb people , yes, but not women. Rodney saved Elizabeth's life in S1. I think it is just the banter two friends have between each other. Both women and men do it regularly with no disrespect intended.

Is the show generally disrespectful of women in general? No, I don't think so. There are many positve women role models on the show such as Weir and Teyla. Is being with up to three women in two whole years, especially when the women instigated the relationships "kirking?" If it is, than our planet is inundated with kirks of both the male and female gender.

I think the short answer is ratings. I'm sure many of you consider this to be a cop out answer, but sex sells. And I don't think most of us want Team Atlantis to forgo having any relationships, but I do think that maybe the relationships could be handled better so they both pay the bills and leave the characters with their dignities intact.

IMHO

Thank-you for this post, Serenity228. I agree with what you said. I don't look for romance or sex in the SG 'verse, but to never have any of the characters experience either emotional or physical romance would be completely unrealistic. I'm glad TPTB don't have the various main characters doing it like bunnies and that they are more suggestive of intimacy than blatantly showing it. (If I wanna see sexy love scenes, I'll tune in Lost. )

This particular episode was not one of their best. I try to avoid spoilers, but had some inklings from people on this forum that this ep was not a fave. I've read about half of the posts here, and see the results are mixed. There were some plotholes and some other issues, but I do have a few pros:

1. Rodney being corrected by Baldrick as to why he fears going into the catacombs. It wasn't primitive villager superstition, it was a practical fear of cave-ins!

2. Teyla understanding the sacrifice the villagers were taking to offer her, Ronon, and Rodney dinner. I've really come to love her character and see her as a great diplomat.

3. The "goosing" of Shep. Loved it!

4. Another Atlantis? Cool! More drones and PJs? Cool! (Would've loved to learn more!)

5. The redressing of the Gate room. Maybe a little cheesy or tacky, but the nobles were really cheesy and tacky, so it fits their style!

Part of the discussion here was about Shep telling Weir that he could've gotten the girl, but decided not to, as if he was talking about whether he had sex with her or not. There's a difference between "getting the girl" and "doing the girl." "Getting" is about dating or marriage. "Doing" is about sex. In many movies, the hero gets the girl at the end. Since SGA is a series, Shep decided not to be the king and did not bring Mara back with him. In fact, after watching this ep a second time, it was obvious he wouldn't have taken her back to Atlantis to be his girlfriend, but rather he would find her another world for her to live and be safe from her brother who wanted to kill her.

[Jill_Ion]

Brief addition:

Kudos to see Brendan Beiser (Agent Pendrell from The X-Files). I didn't recognize him til I read it here, but now that I know it was him, I get a couple of warm fuzzies for his X-Files character. Plus, it just adds to my mental X-Files/Stargate crossover story.