The Intruder (202)

[Easter Lily]

Well Sheppard is suppose to be like O'Neill. Smart, but doesn't like people to think he's smart.

But it doesn't mean he's intelligent though.

Did anyone else get the impression that whilst the senior staff was away, Telya was in command of Atlantis? (As she does have leadership skills)

Like what O'Neill used to be, you mean... Towards the end of his term as team leader he started to rely on Carter just a little too much. The whole "Carter?" business became rather repetitive.

I think Sheppard's ingenuity has always been a double-edged sword... he's always been able to think outside the square but I think it also makes him the maverick that he is... ie his propensity to not follow orders...

When pushed under certain pressure situations, Sheppard can think almost equally on par with McKay, and that has often thrown McKay off his own intellectual balance. (other examples: The Storm, Brotherhood)

I think it's always been the case... even as early as Rising...

[Salty]

This was a great ep!!! Last week and this week the eps didn't just solve one problem - it was ongoing issues that had to be addressed! Once one problem is taken care of, there's another one that has to be solved!

Shep was awesome!! From his little boy excitement at his promotion, to his saving of the day....again. He and Rodney are just an awesome team - this time around Shep solved the problem and implemented the solution. He's smart and he's quick on his feet! Rodney talks fast, but needs Shep around to bounce his ideas off of - they're great together!! And Caldwell is gonna realize at some point that Atlantis has become a somewhat well-oiled machine - teamwork baby!!!

Joe Flanigan is terrific - he can totally carry a scene!! Loved him in the 302 when he was flying away waiting to be beamed. He was tense but trusted in his team to get him home. And loved him with Hermiod especially knowing how Joe hates to work with the puppet!!

So far this season ROCKS!!

[jyh]

Regarding Weir's relationship with Narim-- er, sorry, with SIMON..... did anyone else get a flashback to Star Trek Voyager, when Janeway's fiance, still on earth, ended up 'moving on' and being with someone else? Personally, I can see both sides for Weir... she returns to earth and tells Simon what she thought he wanted to hear, and had no reason to think otherwise up to that point.. He, however, lives here on earth on a day-to-day basis, and of course as we all know, "life happens" and he moved on. No real fault on either side, to my way of thinking.

As for Sheppard's promotion, I too thought it was Weir's doing. Landry & the other military PTB didn't seem to have much faith in Sheppard. Apparently Sheppard has a backstory of being derelict in his duties or disobeying orders, as referred to in the pilot. Then Col Everett accused him of dereliction with regard to Col Sumner. Not to mention the times like Hot Zone when Sheppard just did whatever he wanted regardless of Weir's wishes. So I think the concerns that the military hierarchy has about Shep are totally valid. However, I also think that Weir, who has worked most closely with Sheppard, and has the best reason to know--not to mention the fact that SHE's the one who has to rely on him for her personal safety--is best qualified to judge whether or not he has 'the right stuff' and earned the promotion.

I really enjoyed this episode, even if some points were derivative of other episodes/shows.

[golfbooy]

Ok, I haven't really commented too much on Atlantis, certainly not to the extent that I blither on about SG-1. That said, I continue to be impressed by the quality production that Brad Wright puts together week in, week out. Atlantis has certainly reaped a multitude of benefits from it's parent show.

However, Intruder is another in a pattern of recent episodes that seem to borrow too heavily, at least for me, from SG-1. If Before I Sleep was Brief Candle, Point of View, and Moebius mixed together and swirled about, then Intruder was an unforgivably huge bit of Entity, Nemesis, and Tangent mixed in the same blender. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed each and every one of those SG-1 episodes. And, admittedly, I did enjoy Intruder, to an extent. I'm just saying, from a story perspective, it was a little redundant. Now, I fully recognize that it's the same guys writing both shows; I expect there to be some "borrowing". But this just seems blatanly lazy. And no, having McKay mention the events of Entity doesn't make it better. Not only was this a rehash of older SG-1 stuff, but the same damn thing kept happening over and over and over. How many times can you play the same damn card in the same episode? And thank Odin (well, at the very least Hermiod) for those Asgard transporters. Those things are lifesavers, literally.

Despite all of that, my biggest problem with the episode has to be the virus itself. I'm certainly no expert on Atlantis, but I can't recall ever seeing the Wraith presented as technologically inclined enough to resort to something so...so...so...high tech. It's usually more, ARRRGGGHH, me kill, me hungry. I mean, let's face it, they're not exactly the Aschen, are they? Joking aside, in just the last episode they resorted to kamikaze attacks against the city of Atlantis. After all, why not try downloading the virus to Atlantis? We've got enough Earth tech there to infect the city, right? To go from such crude, yet admittedly effective, tactics to something so Machiavellian over the course of one episode is a bit hard to swallow.

Nonetheless, I choked it down. And I'm glad I did. The reward was a good bit of character development, mostly for Dr. Weir. She's really been great this season so far. She's been so good in the last two episodes that I'd gladly trade Beau Bridge's General Landry for Torri Higginson's Dr. Weir in a heartbeat. In general, I really don't think that Atlantis has much over SG-1, but she's got way more going for her as a character than Landry does. Oh well, can't have it all.

As for the Simon stuff, well, fans are gonna see what they want to see. And, that's just what fans have been asking for from TPTB--ambiguity. Of course, they weren't too ambiguous with the shippy overtones of Sheppard's and Weir's late night coffee rendezvous, so what do I know?

And, what's up with the writing of McKay? As many have pointed out already, he seems to be rapidly devovling into the Felger persona that SG-1 scuttled (dear God, let him be scuttled) back in season seven. McKay's always been a difficult character to place in an appropriate context, at least as far as my tastes go, but this year he's just been a clown. And I'm not talking Feste here. Rodney's perspicacity seems to be a rather selective trait. Give me Beckett or Zelenka any day. Still, we're only two episodes in; though, the spoilers from Duet already have me cringing.

In the end, for me, Intruder was a thoroughly enjoyable, if forgettable, episode of Atlantis. Bring on Runner, where I hope some more substantial events take place.

[PsychoPenguin]

Ok, I haven't really commented too much on Atlantis, certainly not to the extent that I blither on about SG-1. That said, I continue to be impressed by the quality production that Brad Wright puts together week in, week out. Atlantis has certainly reaped a multitude of benefits from it's parent show.

You know, I don't know if it's because I'm in a mood today or something, but that statement sounds awfully patronizing to me. It's like I have this vision of you patting a DVD of "Atlantis" and saying, "Nice show. But don't stray too far from big brother. You won't do very well." But again, maybe I'm in a mood...

Yes, "SGA" has benefited from the fact that BW and Co. already knew how to run a sci-fi show. I'm sure that's what you meant to imply there...

However, Intruder is another in a pattern of recent episodes that seem to borrow too heavily, at least for me, from SG-1. If Before I Sleep was Brief Candle, Point of View, and Moebius mixed together and swirled about, then Intruder was an unforgivably huge bit of Entity, Nemesis, and Tangent mixed in the same blender.

See, I agree with that statement...and yet at the same time I don't. In my own earlier post, I mentioned that this plot was a bit of a retread. (Although I disagree about "Before I Sleep." There's a difference between containing similiar elements and containing a similar plot.) However, I felt that this episode was an improvement on the "SG1" episode utilizing the same device. The difference, as I also stated earlier, was in the execution, with the "Atlantis" characters and universe giving it a much more interesting spin. The lines and characters moments made the old plot more attractive and intriguing. Again, I like some character development with my plot, and I feel like "Atlantis" consistently does a better job of that than "SG1" does.

Hmmm...must be one of those lessons BW learned being applied here...

Despite all of that, my biggest problem with the episode has to be the virus itself. I'm certainly no expert on Atlantis, but I can't recall ever seeing the Wraith presented as technologically inclined enough to resort to something so...so...so...high tech. It's usually more, ARRRGGGHH, me kill, me hungry. I mean, let's face it, they're not exactly the Aschen, are they? Joking aside, in just the last episode they resorted to kamikaze attacks against the city of Atlantis. After all, why not try downloading the virus to Atlantis? We've got enough Earth tech there to infect the city, right? To go from such crude, yet admittedly effective, tactics to something so Machiavellian over the course of one episode is a bit hard to swallow.

I actually didn't have a problem with this. To me, the Wraith aren't that easily boiled down. They are ruthless and single-minded, yes, but that doesn't necessarily compute to make them stupid as well. They've shown a fair amount of technological sophistication. It's their emotional and cultural development that can't seem to move past their need to cultivate humans as food.

And, what's up with the writing of McKay? As many have pointed out already, he seems to be rapidly devovling into the Felger persona that SG-1 scuttled (dear God, let him be scuttled) back in season seven. McKay's always been a difficult character to place in an appropriate context, at least as far as my tastes go, but this year he's just been a clown.

I don't see that...yet. Admittedly, we're only a couple of eps in. But I somehow doubt this will be the case. (I have faith in DH, if not necessarily TPTB.)

In the end, for me, Intruder was a thoroughly enjoyable, if forgettable, episode of Atlantis. Bring on Runner, where I hope some more substantial events take place.

And I think this is because you're not invested in the characters of "SGA." Just like I'm not invested in the characters of "SG1." As I think you and I have discussed before, this will impact the way we both view both shows, since nice character moments can salvage an "SGA" ep for me the same way they can for you with "SG1." (I've been nice and not gone over to the "SG1" threads and posted my opinion of "Avalon" thus far. But so far it's been one really, really slow ep, and one moderately okay ep for me and hubby. We'll be back for part three. But after that no promises!)

[ShadowMaat]

Personally, I have a problem with Atlantis becoming a dumping ground for frustrated SG-1 writers trying to rewrite eps. Whether or not Atlantis "improved upon" ideas used in eps of SG-1 doesn't change the fact that the ideas were used on SG-1. Just because they've thought up cooler ways to do things since then doesn't make it right (IMO, anyway) for them to redo old eps. Atlantis is supposed to be NEW and DIFFERENT. For the most part, it is. But then you have them cannibalizing stuff from SG-1 and even carrying over certain elements/characters.

Hermiod is, without a doubt, an extremely cool character and I like the added snark value he brings to the show (although I certainly hope that isn't ALL he will be used for). But he's still an Asgard. Likewise, in Critical Mass

Spoiler:

we find out that there's a Goa'uld in Pegasus.

Now, I'm all for a little crossover. I understand that some of the characters have to appear on both shows, but I think it should be kept to a strict minimum and that the enemies/allies/whatevers of one shouldn't necessarily appear on the other. I don't want to see Wraith in the Milky Way any time soon, for example.

Atlantis should be allowed to find its own allies, its own enemies, its own weird little aliens and whatever-all else instead of having to borrow them from "big brother". Stealing ideas or species is bad enough, but stealing both together is shoddy craftsmanship. At least in my opinion.

I still love the show and I hope I always will, but I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by PsychoPenguin:
You know, I don't know if it's because I'm in a mood today or something, but that statement sounds awfully patronizing to me. It's like I have this vision of you patting a DVD of "Atlantis" and saying, "Nice show. But don't stray too far from big brother. You won't do very well." But again, maybe I'm in a mood...

Yes, "SGA" has benefited from the fact that BW and Co. already knew how to run a sci-fi show. I'm sure that's what you meant to imply there...

Isn't that what I implied? I think you're really reading what you want into that statement. You agree it's the truth, but also say that it's patronizing. So, for you, the truth is patronizing. Can't help you there. I certainly don't think that's the case.

And I think this is because you're not invested in the characters of "SGA." Just like I'm not invested in the characters of "SG1." As I think you and I have discussed before, this will impact the way we both view both shows, since nice character moments can salvage an "SGA" ep for me the same way they can for you with "SG1.

I wouldn't say that I'm not invested in the characters, just that I'm not invested to the same extent as with SG-1. Some grab my attention more than others. And, though I admit to not recalling our previous discussion on the mattter, I don't doubt its existence. Anyway, I'm willing to have it again, though you seem to have summed things up nicely.

I've been nice and not gone over to the "SG1" threads and posted my opinion of "Avalon" thus far.

And I'm the one being patronizing? Please, don't stay away from the Avalon thread for anyone's account other than your own. There's plenty of more negative posts than the one I made here (which I didn't think was especially derisive) floating about over there.

[PsychoPenguin]

I still love the show and I hope I always will, but I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.

See, I actually agree with this. I love the edginess, the darkness, and I'd actually like to see that grow deeper, not get lightened away with an "SG1" airbrush.

I just don't think we're there yet is all I'm saying. So far the stories and characters still have that "screwed-up" quality that I like to see.

If they were to happen to lose that though, if they were suddenly to become more heroic and put together like "SG1"...well, I'm sure I can find other things to do with my Friday nights.

[PsychoPenguin]

And I'm the one being patronizing? Please, don't stay away from the Avalon thread for anyone's account other than your own. There's plenty of more negative posts than the one I made here (which I didn't think was especially derisive) floating about over there.

Like I said, I may be in a mood today. There are some touchy people out there today, and I've had run-in with a couple of them. I think they left me with the feeling that there are quite a few "SG1" fans out there who feel like their show's being threatened or something. And they see "SGA" just as much of a threat as "BSG."

Hence, I've tried to avoid stating my opinion in "their" threads. I came over here to debate intelligently, not get into emotionally based verbal fistfights.

[golfbooy]

Originally Posted by ShadowMaat:
Atlantis is supposed to be NEW and DIFFERENT. For the most part, it is. But then you have them cannibalizing stuff from SG-1 and even carrying over certain elements/characters.

While I find this to very rarely be the case, I have to say that I agree entirely with just about everything you've said in this post. I expect some carry over elements; it's only natural. Hermiod works for me, so far. He's different enough from Thor that his presence, at least so far, is quite welcome on Atlantis. And it fits with our ever-blossoming relationship with the Asgard.

But, like you, I'm a bit dismayed by the spoilers for Critical Mass. A while back I toyed with the idea of starting a thread about this topic, but ultimately decided I'd just get blasted by ardent Atlantis defenders. But, I really do wonder whether or not the audience is put off by such large scale "borrowing". I mean, I was floored when I read a Peter DeLuise comment calling Intruder Atlantis' version of Entity. That's just not what I want to see.

I don't want to see Wraith in the Milky Way any time soon, for example.

Well said. The Wraith should never make it to Earth. I wasn't too pleased when this basic goal for the Wraith was laid out in Rising.

...I want Atlantis to retain that uniqueness and differentness that we were promised. I DON'T want it to become SG-1 Redux.

Again, well said. Really, I'm not down on Atlantis. I'm liking both shows. I'm certainly liking Atlantis moreso since Before I Sleep. Spoilers can be misleading, and an old idea can turn out great. I'm just saying, for me, there is no Theory of Unification for the SG-1 and Atlantis storylines. Sharing elements is one thing, but I don't want the two shows to turn into a two hour block of the same show. Although, that possibility does have certain advantages. Hmmm.

But still nope.

[GatetheWay]

Did anyone see the little yellow stuffed duck (or was it a chick?) in one of the F-302s. I thought it was adorible. Wonder what the story is behind it.

[Excali5033]

Attentive props people? Most pilots have good luck charms and photos (seen in another shot) in their aircraft.

[GatetheWay]

You're right. I didn't notice the pictures before you mentioned them. It's pretty cool that they are that detailed with their props.

[SaharaGate]

Coming in late to share first thoughts...

Atlantis is (obviously) a damn cool show. Loved tons of things, especially Hermiod..too funny!

There were some lovely and very funny moments between Shep & Mckay (which are always my favourite).

The Shep-Weir interaction was layed on far too thick for my liking, coming so soon after last week. They weren't this close last season were they?? Where did the civilian-military tension go? I know Caldwell provides this now, but I really liked that dynamic between them cause it complicates things.

Also (and I don't think it's just me?) they are obviously pushing the Mckay-Beckett (McBeckett if you will) in preparation for...well you either know what I'm talking about or you don't.

I do have to say though that although McKay has (and remains) my fav right from the beginning....right from before atlantis had aired really ... I don't like what they're doing with him this year.

Last year he was the perfect balance of snarky, fearful, brilliant, self-centred childish genius. Now there seems too much slapstick humour around him. He seems to be the butt of more jokes and is displaying much more fearfulness than he did last season.

I know that sounds strange, but last season we saw him grow beyond his fears...they were still there, but he displayed heroism and always got the job done.

Just seems they might be going a little over the top with him now...

I felt the same thing last week too because while he wasn't acting out of character necessarily, his behaviour was incongruously self-centred and fearful in comparison with Siege 1 &2.

[Blue007]

Haven't had time before now to respond...the show was really good, I enjoyed it so much.
I can not tell you how hard I laughed at Mckay when he and Shep were waiting to be zapped out of the chamber they were lock in. Oh my lord that was a great moment. I got a little lost a few times when they would go from present day and flash back....but all in all I loved the show.