Trinity (206)

[Steve_the_Wraith]

Lida I know its frustrating when people who have allways opposed Dex presence don't give the character give the character.

Instead of trying to understand his motivations or looking at the larger picture they condemn him. Some people are predjudiced against Dex because he "replaced" Ford, others because he threathens their favoured ship (like the person who started the I hate Dex thread before the season even started), others are upset that he's "taking" screentime away from their favourite character.

Most of the people were willing to give Dex a chance and since his introduction he's really won alot of the doubters over.

However there are still some bad apples out there wont give him a chance, what I'm saying is that you don't need to defend Dex so much, most people won't be influenced by those who are obviosly biased (just like no one really believes that Teyla is his abused girlfriend)

Anyway your recent post was obviously made when you were very frustrated but you shouldn't let yourself get so upset at the Dex-haters no one really takes them that seriously. So just relax alittle

[not so ancient]

To what Steve_The_Wraith said? ¡Palabra!

Any person can like or hate any character, any story line, any episode, without needing to make any explanation. No justification is necessary if you like chocolate ice cream more than you like strawberry ice cream. Liking or disliking any aspect of Atlantis is really the same sort of subjective, personal opinion.

BUT, if you're going to make an argument that Elizabeth Weir is an axe murderer, I think you should expect questions about which episode you watched that had her Lizzie Borden impression. And if you reply with an episode in which the rest of us saw Elizabeth Weir cut into an extra rare steak, and you thought it was her axe murdering Kavanagh, we'll probably say that.

[GhostPoet]

I REALLY enjoyed this episode...the scene at the end when they are flying away from the planet is very intense...and Mckay..wow..we get to see a side of him we haven't seen much of...much darker. I felt bad for him at the end. =(

Overall it's a 10/10 for me.

[Furling God]

I really don't understand where you or anyone else gets that, but okay. It takes all types, and we all have opinions . . . .

You are very tolerant, especially since sg1 recently featured chickens (eaten chickens) and sga never did yet.

Let a soldier feed some poultry in some Atlantis backyard.

[ToasterOnFire]

Yep, I'm frustrated by people who obviously don't like a character and continually discuss their hangups. BUT I'm more frustrated at how many people in this thread and elsewhere have been deliberately attacking posters rather than the poster's opinion. Such attacks only weaken one's argument and generally bring down the tone of the thread. Can we please avoid them?

[Furling God]

what exactly do YOU have against the character ( and I do so hope it's just the character) of Ronon Dex,

If you imply that I imply something against the actor, I wonder why I should criticize a guy who gets a job and is directed, and I wish you could explain what you mean by that. If you imply that I criticized the actor, then you should be moderated, if not, then excuse my mistake.

because every post you have made on the subject has not only been negative, but bordering on offensive.

Well in fact many people are realizing it now, especially since this episode, but part of the intention of the writers is to play with the untrustworthiness of the characters. I was just early in seeing that.

Dex was never abusive towards Teyla, period.

There are many people on this thread who disagree with the "battered woman" theme, but I doubt anyone would deny that Dex ruined Teyla's diplomatic mission, and that his violence was not a discutable inuendo but on the contrary plainly displayed by TPTB as such.

Well can *you* support this argument with facts and a logical explanation that connects those facts into 'abusive alcoholic violent relationship'?

No, not really. But he has a right to speak, provided he does not lack respect for other posters.

And no, being a 'nuisance' is not the same as what Derrick said. At all.

I think I see what he means. There are many signs since Runner that make Ronon and Teyla look like a ship. Not a ship but signs of a beginning of a ship. And in case of an effective ship and continued brutality from Ronon, then in that case yes it would look like a battered woman case.

[joasia]

Ok, so now they have found Yet Another Ancient Laboratory. Great. But why they still had not see even a trace of any Ancient Production Facility? Let's say - a ZPM Factory? Or Puddle Jumper Assembly Line? Or the Ultimate Drone Ltd main storage? Or something? I do not think that all this things had been handmade - can you imagine a group of old Ancients sitting by the fire (in winter) or on the "shore" (in summer), carving one ZPM after another from the dilithium crystals?

[TechnoBoY]

I thought the ep was just okay. McKay is really bugging me though. What the hell is wrong with him in season 2? He seems to be getting dumber! Eek!

[Avatar28]

Okay, making notes here as I go and writing this in notepad. I may end up saying something that's already been said.

There are, at the end of the Periodic Table of Elements, highly unstable elements that, as I understand, exist as a result of, and for a short time, in nuclear reactions. Einsteinum, Mendelevium. Remember those? Zelenka said that particles like that were being produced by the Arcturus. Those particles are one of the things that a superconducting supercollider can reproduce and study.

I don't believe that's what he was talking about. Rather the device was creating brand NEW types of exotic particles that don't normally exist in the universe. Particles (presumably subatomic ones), not atoms.

John Preston, if an object is in a sufficiently high orbit. I couldn't find the number this time, but I saw it a few days ago. Basically low earth orbit where the shuttle flies and some satellites fly does experience a slight bit of drag. The higher you go the less true it is. Objects in higher orbits should be able to maintain that orbit for thousands or millions of years. Judging by the apparent size of the planet when we saw the junk, I'd say it's probably at an altitude of at least a few thousand miles. An orbit at that altitude is actually considered fairly high and should EASILY be long term stable.

The Daedalus was able to withstand some weapon blasts, yes,

The problem was, the Daedalus, and the whole freaking solar system, could not withstand the explosion from the overload of the Arcturus.

Little boom vs. something on the order of a small nova.

Big difference.

Small nova my heiney. I'd say something more akin to a supernova. To be honest with you, though, even though the energy output may have been akin to a supernova I seriously question what would have happened to the system. In a supernova, you have a shockwave from the outer layers of the star being blasted outwards. In this case, I'm not so sure what would happen. You have a HUGE outpouring of energy. Possibly it would be large enough to vaporize other planets in the system. But you don't have the huge mass of the star going outwards. Possibly the radiation pressure might be enough to cause some sort of instability in the star, but I doubt it. I did a little research on binary systems where one star undergoes a supernova. In those cases the companion star will usually survive, though it may lose some mass. Considering that the sun contains 99% of the matter in the solar system I find it hard to justify Rodney's claim of destroying 5/6 of the solar system. I think Carter still has him beat there. :-)

Now, all that said, I really did enjoy the episode. It was one of the better ones this season. Probably my favorite thus far I think. Lots of character in this one as others have observed but also a good bit of suspense and sci-fi too.

[Furling God]

PIGGY'S USELESS OPINION

Ugly Pig's opinion is never useless. Furling Gods bow to Ugly Pigs and venerate their words, because pigs are the own gods of furling gods.

Interesting episode. It appears to have been written for the sole purpose of threatening the relationship between the characters.

I couldn't have phrased it better. What a wordsmith Ugly Pig proves to be.

Teyla's newfound friendship with Ronon is challenged when he uses her to get to his old friend so he could kill him, as is Sheppard and McKay's when Rodney screws up and Sheppard plainly tells him that he has lost his trust. Add to that Weir literally yelling at McKay after his screw-up, McKay having insulted every person in the room (especially Zelenka), Ronon and Teyla deciding to keep secrets from the rest of their team... Also taken into consideration that trusted team member lt Ford recently went nuts, it seems like the writers are going out of their way to not have the characters becoming the close friends we perceive (the original) SG-1 to have become over the years.

Or maybe they just don't want to get there just yet. Whatever the intention, I'm not worried that the show will degenerate to the soap opera point where everyone hates each other and scheme behind each others backs...

I was preparing to say something like that, in a less rich and skillful manner.

That I don't think TPTB would stoop to.

Wait and see, wait and see....

[Madeleine]

... I regret that quite a few personnal attacks on Derrick as a poster have not been moderated. Derrick just expressed an opinion about the show and didn't call any other poster stupid or things like that.

I'm sorry, that's my bad. I PM'd the one most responsible, and I've done a bit of editing, but if there's stuff I missed then I'm sorry, to Derrick and to anyone else who was upset by the unkindness to him.

There's too much tetchiness in this thread altogether right now, please could people just calm down a bit?

Remember that we're here to discuss opinions, and it's okay to deconstruct and criticise people's ideas and suggestions, but not to attack the people who hold the opinions, to sneer at people for having the opinions/ideas, or to imply that anyone who doesn't share your opinion is deluded / has problems / is lying / needs to watch again / is missing the obvious / is disturbed / is too closed-minded for you to deign to post to.

Madeleine

[sgatelvr]

Hi, just popping in to say that I agree with Derrick that Ronon is abusive towards Teyla.

I'm not sure it fits in the social category of battered woman but I think everyone can agree that he has been a nuisance to her on this mission.

This is why I regret that quite a few personnal attacks on Derrick as a poster have not been moderated. Derrick just expressed an opinion about the show and didn't call any other poster stupid or things like that.

As a woman who has never been battered in any way shape or form, yet who has dated so called "dangerous men," I must sincerely disagree with your, and Derrick's, belief that Teyla is an "abused woman." In fact, when I first read Derrick's post, I was quite flabbergasted and infuriated. Everything that Ronon has done, from "tying Teyla up" to "holding her hostage" to the "cheap shot" during training to his recent (and, IMO, unacceptable) behavior in this ep, is perfectly feasible, even expected, after sustaining the mental and physical trauma of the past seven years. In fact, he does not know how to behave as a normal man anymore. For seven years, he has been alone and hunted. He could not live in any society because of the threat he represented with the Wraith device implanted in his back. He has learned to think only for his own well-being. Someone mentioned "feral" and I think that is an apt term.



Teyla's consideration of his past and appreciation of his abilities has prompted her to accept his faults, with the knowledge that his behavior should improve with time. I do not see how Ronon, given his past, can be compared to any normal man living on Earth (unless you are talking about a POW who has been imprisoned for seven years with constant torture and threats to his life).



Is Ronan a woman-beater? No. Is he an alcoholic? No. Is he a man who has been traumatized to the point that he cannot appreciate acceptable behavior? Yes. Should his behavior be tolerated? Apparently Teyla thinks so. And she also realizes that the other (Earth) members of Atlantis would not think so. She is protecting him, because, at this point, he is unable to distinguish his violent and inappropriate behavior from acceptable behavior. I believe, considering his role on SGA, his behavior will improve. However, I think it would have been inconceivable that he would turn into a perfect gentleman after a month or so on Atlantis. Give him time.



As for personal attacks on Derrick, I did not view any such attack (and I have read every post on this thread). Derrick suggested a scenario that was pretty far-fetched, and did not provide adequate explanations to support such a scenario. Derrick was called on that issue, and responded with only the same argument. Should Derrick provide further, plausible arguments, I am sure they would be considered. Your defense of Derrick is commendable, but I believe, unnecessary.

Of course, this is jmho and anyone who chooses to disagree with me is certainly entitled.

[PartyLikeIts1984]

I was very happy with this epi. It certainly wasn't afraid to make you feel uncomfortable with the characters and their realtionships.

I'm wondering how soon McKay and Sheppard will go back to normal. As much as I want the married couple snark back, I think having them be all friendly and Rodney all forgiven by the next epi would be a bit of a betrayal of the emotions. I mean, they did some serious angsting and it would minimize the importance if it's all forgotten by next week.

[not so ancient]

I was very happy with this epi. It certainly wasn't afraid to make you feel uncomfortable with the characters and their realtionships.

I'm wondering how soon McKay and Sheppard will go back to normal. As much as I want the married couple snark back, I think having them be all friendly and Rodney all forgiven by the next epi would be a bit of a betrayal of the emotions. I mean, they did some serious angsting and it would minimize the importance if it's all forgotten by next week.

You know, Sheppard and Weir and everyone would be wise not to underestimate Rodney's overall level of skills and ingenuities because of this mistake. They certainly recognize that he can be overeager, but he has saved them numerous times before, he'll do so again. He's bright, and very capable.

I don't think they should delegate McKay to peeling potatoes in the galley because of this project's failures or because they think he has a flawed character.

Yes, the project failed, catastrophically, due to McKay being rash. More caution is advised in the future, but dumping on Rodney is not.

In any case, we know that they reversed the originally planned airing sequence of Trinity and Condemned, so if the writers intended to show the emotional fallout from Trinity in Condemned, I'm not really seeing it.

[Steve_the_Wraith]

In any case, we know that they reversed the originally planned airing sequence of Trinity and Condemned, so if the writers intended to show the emotional fallout from Trinity in Condemned, I'm not really seeing it.

Really?
I can't help but be a little dissapointed then. Unless they changed the order during/before filming