The Siege, Part 3 (201)

[uknesvuinng]

Maybe I've missed something, but have we ever seen a Wraith/human with Wraith DNA that had the ATA gene try to use Ancient Tech and fail? Or has it been said that Wraith DNA is definitely blocked (not like the Fifth Race assumption about the Goa'uld being blocked) by Ancient tech? Cause until that is seen, the only thing canon is that the ATA gene is required.

Ford may have received the ATA off-screen during "Hot Zone". He could have also received it as part of the preparations for the then-impending Wraith siege. Unfortunately, it was not explained, and we only know that at sometime he successfully received the ATA gene.


I thought the episode went wonderfully. I was anticipating it far more than the SG-1 premiere, and was not disappointed. The Sheppard save was a little bit fast, but considering what they had to squeeze into this episode, it was done well enough. The effects were astounding; the mushroom cloud was particularly menacing. We now know that all the Wraith castes we've seen so far can feed. The Wraith also have a nice pistol version of their stunner (don't recall seeing that last season).

The Ford storyline was definitely "B" plot, but quite sensible and well written. Spoilers had me expecting it would be some kind of freak reaction to feeding that only a small group have, but it is in fact something that could happen to anyone. There's a solution in sight (wean him off of the enzyme), but we have to catch him first. Perhaps they should have prepared better for Ford, but I think the pressure of being attacked and dealing with all the wounded just caused Beckett to underestimate just how powerful the addiction was. Also, they were trying to keep Ford from feeling threatened. Strapping a man down is not a way to prevent him from feeling threatened. Not sure what's up with the eye, but it's probably some kind of side-effect of long-term exposure to the enzyme. We'll probably get more details on that later in the season.

Caldwell seemed perfectly willing to take advice from the Atlantis expedition while keeping his command, although at times he seemed a little too willing. He has future episodes to flesh this out, so it should turn out well.

The hug seemed to be very friendship, but left romance open. If TPTB don't Jack/Sam this one up, it could work out as well. Only future episodes will determine it for certain. McKay and Teyla look like they could develop a nice friendship. Too bad they didn't have this much interaction in S1.

Now to wait 2 more weeks to see if Dex will add wondrous things to the show. Fortunately we get "Intruder" next week, which I'm sure will include lots of Hermy.

[Mr Prophet]

The Ancients, IMO, have never shown a great deal of concern for anyone but themselves.

Which is rather disappointing to me. I wanted them to turn out to be evil, not just...human.

[Unamed]

I s it just me or did Tela's connection eith the Wraith seem to quick and easy, what was up with her evil smile??

[ShadowMaat]

I s it just me or did Tela's connection eith the Wraith seem to quick and easy, what was up with her evil smile??

I felt sure that was her Wraith smile. I was all, "Yay! She's possessed again!" and then she wasn't. *sigh* Pity, she's more interesting that way.

[T_S]

Which is rather disappointing to me. I wanted them to turn out to be evil, not just...human.

IMO, you are wrong.
Being "evil" is something that I believe is very specific to human beings. Most human are either sensible to something (poverty for example - doesn't mean they will act) or(/and?) have their own agenda that nothing will coerce.
On the contrary, the Ancients display a cold indifference that no human (none that I know of, anyway) would be able to reproduce.

[ShadowMaat]

On the contrary, the Ancients display a cold indifference that no human (none that I know of, anyway) would be able to reproduce.

Actually, I found their "cold indifference" to be very human. Those in authority, those who think themselves to be far superior to anyone/everyone around them tend to have the same mentality. It's a very... bureaucratic sort of coldness, IMO. If the attitude was better maintained, it COULD be the chilling indifference of some advanced non-human intelligence, but the way TPTB have handled it- both on SG-1 and in Atlantis, the Ancients come off- to me, at least- as a bunch of stuffy, insensitive pencil-pushers. They read more as being egotistical and bloated with self-importance rather than being genuinely superior with an impartial viewpoint.

I suppose that if humans are meant to be the next incarnation of the Ancients (which is also disappointing, TBH), that it makes sense that they would share a lot of the same traits we do, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

As for being "evil", yeah, I suppose that's more of a human supposition, but it could be interesting to see the ways in which the possibility could be explored. Experimenting on human (or intelligent/self-aware) test subjects springs readily to mind, although maybe with- in their opinion- "higher goals" than those of, say, the Goa'uld, whose experiments on humans are entirely self-serving. Put it under the blanket of trying to "improve the species" and you have a noble goal with hideous possibilities. But then again, the Nazis already tried that, didn't they?

[Major Fischer]

I felt sure that was her Wraith smile. I was all, "Yay! She's possessed again!" and then she wasn't. *sigh* Pity, she's more interesting that way.

Not only you Shadow

Though honestly I fond myself finding Teyla more tolerable in this episode than normally. She had funny lines (which she normally doesn't), and there was more expression in the way her character was protrayed. It seemed far less... forced than I sometimes feel Teyla can be.

[Easter Lily]

Maybe I've missed something, but have we ever seen a Wraith/human with Wraith DNA that had the ATA gene try to use Ancient Tech and fail? Or has it been said that Wraith DNA is definitely blocked (not like the Fifth Race assumption about the Goa'uld being blocked) by Ancient tech? Cause until that is seen, the only thing canon is that the ATA gene is required.

Ford may have received the ATA off-screen during "Hot Zone". He could have also received it as part of the preparations for the then-impending Wraith siege. Unfortunately, it was not explained, and we only know that at sometime he successfully received the ATA gene.

I really think they need to explain this one at some point... given that there are already some "givens" in the Atlantis universe. I was gobbsmacked during that entire sequence wondering how Ford was able to access the puddlejumper. It's such an obvious plothole that one would think that it begs an explaination down the track.

The hug seemed to be very friendship, but left romance open. If TPTB don't Jack/Sam this one up, it could work out as well. Only future episodes will determine it for certain. McKay and Teyla look like they could develop a nice friendship. Too bad they didn't have this much interaction in S1.

I saw the hug as relief but laying the groundwork for other things perhaps... But more importantly, I saw it as showing a more personable side to the previously stoic Weir of early season one. It wasn't girly... it wasn't awkward... it was clear, unmitigated relief mixed with genuine concern. She had thought that Sheppard was headed for the big beyond and this was an acknowledgement that the craziness of the situation did not inhibit her capacity to express what she felt at the time.

I am really looking forward to the whole The Hunt for the Enzymed Ford arc...
It was a really poignant moment for Sheppard when he realised he couldn't help the young man that he had come to depend on. That he had turned into something unrecognizable. Ford's loyalty to Sheppard in season one was one of the things that made Ford so appealing to me... And it was a lovely touch to see it reciprocated at the end of the episode.

[T_S]

Actually, I found their "cold indifference" to be very human. Those in authority, those who think themselves to be far superior to anyone/everyone around them tend to have the same mentality. It's a very... bureaucratic sort of coldness, IMO.

I agree, although most bureaucrats don't have the power to just wish away an army (or anything for that matter). This comment does not apply to "un-ascended" Ancients; however, ascended Ancients have a power that is almost godlike ... Even un-ascended Ancients had the power to build device that could wipe out or recreate life in a whole galaxy! I mean, they used it once (after the plague) then left it to evolve; it was their creation, they could have wanted to lead it in the direction they wanted it to follow.

If the attitude was better maintained, it COULD be the chilling indifference of some advanced non-human intelligence, but the way TPTB have handled it- both on SG-1 and in Atlantis, the Ancients come off- to me, at least- as a bunch of stuffy, insensitive pencil-pushers.

True, this is how they appear in "Before I Sleep".

They read more as being egotistical and bloated with self-importance rather than being genuinely superior with an impartial viewpoint.

I don't think anyone is impartial; I don't think that's even possible (oh, well, ok, that's my very pessimistic point of view). When I watched ants attacking some other random insect when I was a kid, I always tried to guess who'd "win", who'd merit "winning" ... Although I don't consciously think of it this way now, I'm quite sure this "judging" behaviour still exists. Back on topic: although the ascended Ancients clearly think Anubis is bad, and that bringing it to their plane of existence was a huge mistake on Oma's part, they just won't do anything; they are not impartial, they try to act as if they were as best as they can.

I suppose that if humans are meant to be the next incarnation of the Ancients (which is also disappointing, TBH), that it makes sense that they would share a lot of the same traits we do, but it doesn't mean I have to like it.

You know ... Humans being the Ancients' next incarnation, I can fathom but not really approve: most of us, myself included, are far from being able to even fake we are impartial - and besides, altough some very rare humans would certainly use advanced technology for the greater good, I just don't think it would happen in a more general manner. Given that, their sharing traits with us doesn't give me a very high opinion of them. Hell, I even prefered B5's Vorlons!

As for being "evil", yeah, I suppose that's more of a human supposition, but it could be interesting to see the ways in which the possibility could be explored.

I don't think it's solely human; "good" and "bad" are notions that you (being anyone, including some "inferior" species) define according to both your instincts (survival of the species, breeding, survival of the individual, not necessarily in that order) and your potential ability to reason (if available), as well as the conflict between instincts and reason (if that exists in your species).

Experimenting on human (or intelligent/self-aware) test subjects springs readily to mind, although maybe with- in their opinion- "higher goals" than those of, say, the Goa'uld, whose experiments on humans are entirely self-serving.

Wasn't using that shadowy energy being (can't remember the episode's name, anyway, SGA 1x03) for research purposes completely self-serving? Especially given the fact that the Ancients knew it was sentient?

[Redwall]

Regarding the hug:

Did no one else think Sheppard's face showed a "WTF?" look?

[Easter Lily]

He was surprised...
But touched I think...

[Melyanna]

Regarding the hug:

Did no one else think Sheppard's face showed a "WTF?" look?

I thought he looked startled, which is, I suppose, not quite what you mean. By that point John had seen Elizabeth show plenty of emotion about ideas, but she tended not to show a lot of emotion for people, at least not at that level and that long after the event has passed. Having that kind of display thrust at him would be a little startling.

[uknesvuinng]

I really think they need to explain this one at some point... given that there are already some "givens" in the Atlantis universe. I was gobbsmacked during that entire sequence wondering how Ford was able to access the puddlejumper. It's such an obvious plothole that one would think that it begs an explaination down the track.

When I think of plothole, I think of continuity error. That's definitely not the case with the Ford storyline. The only thing that's confusing about Ford flying a jumper is it wasn't mentioned that he had been given the gene. However, it wasn't said that he didn't have the gene then and it hasn't been said that he couldn't take the gene, so his gene therapy went unmentioned. He clearly has it according to canon evidence, it was just presented to us in an unexpected and rather harsh manner. By no means a continuity error, but definitely could have used some earlier exposition.

It would be nice to get some further exposition from the show on this matter, but it'll be tricky to write in fluidly now.

[MartoufMarty]

Okay, I loved it!

Rodney is like, my hero!

I love his act of bravery there near the end

I really love Ford. I really liked him before, but I dunno... I just... really love him now lol. I just wish he wasn't 'reoccuring character'.

I don't know how they're going to explain the whole 'I can suddenly fly a puddle-jumper! Weee!' bit...

Maybe Beckett was using him as a lab rat when he was laying their unconscious, or somehow weirdly being sucked by the Wraith and yadda-yadda changed him (more than we know).

*shrug*

I feel kind of sorry for Everett now... But Rodney is just awesome! And the episode was so Weir/Shep shippy

That's so adorable!

[SGalisa]

Originally posted by MartoufMarty:
I really love Ford. I really liked him before, but I dunno... I just... really love him now lol. I just wish he wasn't 'reoccuring character'.

I don't know how they're going to explain the whole 'I can suddenly fly a puddle-jumper! Weee!' bit...

Somewhere in Season 1 is a story where Lt. Ford specifically asked Dr. Beckett if he received the gene therapy, he asked how long it would take before the gene might take effect. (Answer: possibly up to a few hours, at least - if it was successful.) I'm guessing somewhere between that ep and now, that Ford *actually* received the gene therapy.

I think the episode was the HOT ZONE, because Ford was infected with the virus thingy, but because McKay already *had* the gene therapy and it worked, McKay was immune. Ford didn't have the gene yet at that point, and was vulnerable. Had Rodney's plan B not worked, Ford would have otherwise died. So, I'm guessing after all that was done and over with, Dr. Beckett gave Ford the gene therapy -just in case a similar situation came up in the future, to be on the safe side.

After seeing the "Siege 3" conclusion, that would also probably be the best explanation behind *how* Ford was able to fly the puddle jumper and not the Wraith in "The Defiant One" ep.