The Siege, Part 3 (201)

[zenmonki]

I missed the last 10 minutes or so (satellite went out during my taping). Can someone fill me in on what happened after Ford lifted Beckett by the neck?

Shipping:
Why are so many people reading so much into the hug between Weir and Sheppard? If you had a friend that you thought was dead, you might really hug them hard too.

Intro:
I LOVE the new, short intro (same for SG-1)! Who wants valuable air-time taken up with the same old intro show after show? I didn't time the show's content and don't know if they're using the extra time for commercials or not, but I still like it.

[Jeff O'Connor]

I'd fill you in but I've gotta run to work, but I'll answer those other two comments you made.

First've all, I understand, ultimately, it could well have been simply a sign of friendship -- but no matter what, I enjoyed it enough to for the first time consider the notion of them being together in some form of relationship.

Secondarily, no, the credits were chopped up so Skiffy would have more time for commercials. If you'd truly rather watch Geico commercials and Sci Fi Original Pictures advertisements than hum along to the Emmy-nominated Atlantis theme, so be it, but otherwise, yeah, bleh.

[Arative]

Overall I loved the episode. The Daedelus is really a good looking ship, I'd love to see a fleet of those babies coming to the Pegasus and just laying waste to the Wraith.
I like the direction the TPTB have taken Ford, he's actually a character that I care about now. Last season, I was like eh, didn't care if he lived or died but I think this story arc will really add some depth to Ford.
I think one of the coolest things was seeing Atlantis all lit up after they put in the ZPM, seemed like every light in the place came on. At first I thought that they had an awful lot of sunlight coming in but then I realized that it was actually Atlantis' lights on, thought that was a nice touch.

[Major Fischer]

In general I liked the episode and thought it was well written with one glaring exception:

SuperFord.

I felt like that subplot was crammed into the episode ackwardly, and that to make it work they had to make all the other major characters act in unintelligent ways.

1) After attacking Beckett he should have been restrained or put in a cell, they were in a situation that was too important to deal with the distraction.
2) Posting only one guard, even as short handed as they were was just silly.
3) No one in sickbay noticing that Ford wasn't really sedated.
4) Beckett running to the control center to tell them about it rather than warning them over the radio which would have been undeniably faster.
5) The fact that Ford could magically fly a jumper when he's never been able to before, and the throw away explaination about how Atlantis is going to get the jumper back.

I don't have an objection to the subplot in theory, but there should have been an entire episode directed to it, not this ... leaching onto an already full episode.

[ShadowMaat]

Shipping:
Why are so many people reading so much into the hug between Weir and Sheppard? If you had a friend that you thought was dead, you might really hug them hard too.

And if I hadn't been subjected to years of CRAP on SG-1 in regards to ship, maybe I could accept it as just being friendship, but if TPTB have, IMO, fracked THAT situation up beyond all reason, why should Atlantis be any different?

[Lida]

In general I liked the episode and thought it was well written with one glaring exception:

SuperFord.

I felt like that subplot was crammed into the episode ackwardly, and that to make it work they had to make all the other major characters act in unintelligent ways.

1) After attacking Beckett he should have been restrained or put in a cell, they were in a situation that was too important to deal with the distraction.
2) Posting only one guard, even as short handed as they were was just silly.
3) No one in sickbay noticing that Ford wasn't really sedated.
4) Beckett running to the control center to tell them about it rather than warning them over the radio which would have been undeniably faster.
5) The fact that Ford could magically fly a jumper when he's never been able to before, and the throw away explaination about how Atlantis is going to get the jumper back.

I don't have an objection to the subplot in theory, but there should have been an entire episode directed to it, not this ... leaching onto an already full episode.

I believe the idea was to introduce the character of "Super Ford" in Siege, Part 3, so that future episodes could feature this new storyline. If you want to complain about plot holes, go ahead, as there were many, but the most glaring was the fact Ford

Spoiler:

flew a puddle jumper, despite the fact he doesn't have the ATA gene, and it now infected by a Wraith enzyme, and the Wraith are known NOT to be able to utilize Ancient technology.

. However, your other "complaints" were not all that far fetched. Ever worked in an inner city ER on a Friday or Saturday night? Besides, it's a TV show.

[Major Fischer]

Ever worked in an inner city ER on a Friday or Saturday night?

Thank you for your permission to pick at the plot holes. Given that there is little call for military historians to work in ERs, I don't claim expertise, but my sister is an ER resident in an major inner city ER. I'm quite sure that had someone tried to kill a doctor in her ER they'd pay more attention to him.

[Lida]

Thank you for your permission to pick at the plot holes. Given that there is little call for military historians to work in ERs, I don't claim expertise, but my sister is an ER resident in an major inner city ER. I'm quite sure that had someone tried to kill a doctor in her ER they'd pay more attention to him.

Military historians? It's a TV show!

As for working in an inner city ER, I've done my time...as a doc, and even with metal detectors, I've been threatened with knives, razor blades, etc. Guards paying attention, yes, get there in time, NOT always!

And my post was NOT to give you permission to pick at the plot, we all have the right to our opinions, right? You can pick all you like.

[Major Fischer]

No, I'm a military historian. That's why I was qualifying that no, I had not ever worked in an inner city ER.

And I'm sure that you have seen and been threatened with a lot of things in your job, but I'm also sure that your hospital would get sued if the staff did not pay closer attention to a patient once they had threatened a doctor.

I don't accept "it's just a tv show" excuses for poor storytelling. It's their job to tell good stories. Shoe-horning the SuperFord plot into Siege III contributed to the last Act having a rushed feeling and I believe that it could have been better handled as an episode in and of itself. That's part of commenting on episodes in threads like this is about.

In general I loved the episode, it is one of my favorite Atlantis episodes ever, but that does not mean that there wasn't problems with it. I prefer to articulate problems in my favorite shows on the off chance that TPTB (who do frequent this forum as lurkers and as posters) have intelligent feedback that is more than simply "it sucked" or "it was great!"

[coolove]

The Shep/Weir stuff was the biggest downside of the entire ep.

Leave the "moments" SUBTLE and open to interpretation. PLEASE!

I have to agree. That was the lowest point for me in the episode and just left me irked. There's something wrong about a Shep/Weir relationship. She's the commander of the base and he's the lead military officer. It doesn't bode well for me.

[Melyanna]

I believe the idea was to introduce the character of "Super Ford" in Siege, Part 3, so that future episodes could feature this new storyline. If you want to complain about plot holes, go ahead, as there were many, but the most glaring was the fact Ford [spolier]flew a puddle jumper, despite the fact he doesn't have the ATA gene, and it now infected by a Wraith enzyme, and the Wraith are known NOT to be able to utilize Ancient technology.[/spoiler]. However, your other "complaints" were not all that far fetched. Ever worked in an inner city ER on a Friday or Saturday night? Besides, it's a TV show.

Well... yeah, I think those points of Major Fischer's are legitimate. My only criticism of this episode is that they packed way too much stuff into it. I felt like Ford's plot needed an episode unto itself instead of being squeezed into the last half of this one. The only way to get everything in was to seriously simplify things, and that meant that they were compromising the characters a bit. Ford's already attacked Beckett and he's probably the most serious case on the base — after all, they were sending wounded to the Daedalus. Surely they could have had someone keeping an eye on him to see to it that he was actually sedated.

As for the Wraith enzyme, Hatcheter already explained that enzymes aren't genes. I blinked when he showed up in the cockpit of the jumper, but I don't think he was actually flying it. He was sitting in the copilot's seat, after all. We've seen him dial the gate before, so the jumper must have some automatic protocol that sends the jumper into the bay and through the gate when someone dials from it.

[Lida]

No, I'm a military historian. That's why I was qualifying that no, I had not ever worked in an inner city ER.

And I'm sure that you have seen and been threatened with a lot of things in your job, but I'm also sure that your hospital would get sued if the staff did not pay closer attention to a patient once they had threatened a doctor.

I don't accept "it's just a tv show" excuses for poor storytelling. It's their job to tell good stories. Shoe-horning the SuperFord plot into Siege III contributed to the last Act having a rushed feeling and I believe that it could have been better handled as an episode in and of itself. That's part of commenting on episodes in threads like this is about.

In general I loved the episode, it is one of my favorite Atlantis episodes ever, but that does not mean that there wasn't problems with it. I prefer to articulate problems in my favorite shows on the off chance that TPTB (who do frequent this forum as lurkers and as posters) have intelligent feedback that is more than simply "it sucked" or "it was great!"

You are a military historian...lawyer too? No, MY hospital was not sued because of my attacks. And I loved the episode too, but it is STILL a TV series and a SciFi one to boot. You want realism, view National Geographic!

As for tptb listening.....from your lips to their Their ears! And I already said, but I'll say it again, EVERYONE is entitled to their opinion! You have yours, I have mine. Period!

[macktheknife]

Wow. IMO best Sci_Fi Episode (and I mean the Sci-Fi GENRE, not the cable channel) ever.

Brilliant effects (the MULTIPLE nukes was just OMG), the Dadelus was OMG, the Space Fight was OMG, the inside of the shield looking up was OMG. I watched SG-1 before Atlantis, and this blew it away. If this does'nt win a Emmy Or Grammy or Golden Globe or whatever at the very least for special effects, I don't know what will. In Sg1 their space fight was okay, but this just was 10 times bigger and better.

The Asgard dude (hermy?) reminded me of Professor Farnsworth from futurama in the episode he has to go into "The Angry Dome" and was muttering to himself

About Weir\Shep, i'm not a total shipper, but since the very beginning, Weir and Shep had "natural" chemistry IMO, and that's my choice if they decide to ship anyone.

When Daedelus hyperspaced out, it SO looked like the Defiant going through the wormhole. It was cool.

A few negs. I thought "why don't they put ford in the cell" and then he went mental.

Why would it be "engineering" where they asgard dude is, I would have made it a CIC or something.

I would have thought they would have had "Heavy Railguns" on the Dorsal Spine of the ship, not just a bunch of normal railguns (which were able to be man ported in pt 2). I would have loved a close-in shot of something like that. A man can dream.

Not a pick, but their weapons seemed to be made of:
Normal Railguns, and a "VLS" style system (look it up for ships like Aegis Cruisers) with a bunch of Nuke Rockets\Missiles\Torpedoes. Also the F302's, but they don't seem to have much in the way of "StandOff" weapons.

Seems like a little light. Possibly with a ZPM it would be much better.

All in all 10\10.

[Sheylafan87]

SGA season premiere was really kool.They had so much action and suspense when everyoneon atlantis thought Sheppard was dead and when he thought everyone was dead on atlantis.McKay was funny when the Wraith were wbout to shoot and he freaked out and had his gun in his hand he released his cartilage(bullets) and he waited for them to hit him but Teyla came along and shot them both.ALso When ford grabed on to Becketts neck and was choking him that was freaky.Beckett was really worried and Ford had no control and he went of the deep end and stole a jumper and ran for it knowing that John wouldnt give up in finding him.John really thought that Ford wouldnt go through the gate they had a momonet sort of they know what they have to do looks.It was sad that FOrd had to leave so soon.I never knew Ford had it in him to shoot on of his own ppl but he did change and now hes out there doing who knows wat.John wont give up and Ford knows that.Overall the premiere was a great start.

[JJL]

No, I'm a military historian. That's why I was qualifying that no, I had not ever worked in an inner city ER.

And I'm sure that you have seen and been threatened with a lot of things in your job, but I'm also sure that your hospital would get sued if the staff did not pay closer attention to a patient once they had threatened a doctor.

I don't accept "it's just a tv show" excuses for poor storytelling. It's their job to tell good stories. Shoe-horning the SuperFord plot into Siege III contributed to the last Act having a rushed feeling and I believe that it could have been better handled as an episode in and of itself. That's part of commenting on episodes in threads like this is about.

In general I loved the episode, it is one of my favorite Atlantis episodes ever, but that does not mean that there wasn't problems with it. I prefer to articulate problems in my favorite shows on the off chance that TPTB (who do frequent this forum as lurkers and as posters) have intelligent feedback that is more than simply "it sucked" or "it was great!"

I tend to agree with you about the SuperFord thing, but being combative with another poster is just plain ignorant.

Anyhow, on a scale of 100 I would have to give this EP a 95. Deadalus was more than I could have hoped for - I was expecting some kind of Asgard presence in Season 2 but to actually have an Asgard as part of Deadalus' crew? Sweet. I can't wait to see more of what this ship can do in future episodes. Its interesting to see more of an Earth presence to stir the pot (and the plot!) up a bit. Also, having an Asgard to go through the Ancient database is going to be huge. I can imagine Thor and his buddies tripping over themselves at the chance to do exactly that. Seeing an Asgard with a semblance of personality was funny. Muttering to himself, giving Novak the cold shoulder - too much of it would have been campy but I thought it was perfect.

The Shep/Weir thing didn't bother me at all. If they want to make Shep/Weir a couple I could care less, although I am confident they they will not because of their professional obligations. Sorry guys, people are going to get lonely in another galaxy and things are going to happen. If they give each other a little "friendly comfort" *ahem* in a time of stress and need so be it.

From an effects standpoint I thought the show was superb... truly outstanding. The guys who put that together should be commended. I can't wait to see more of their work as the season unfolds!

Ronon Dex (judging from the teaser clips) seems to be a certifiable badass. I'm kind of wondering how he is going to fit into the team and how its going to work out.

Rainbow had his best episode yet. Although I'm disappointed for him from a professional standpoint (a mans gotta eat and have beer money, right?) I think his arc is incredible. He won't be in as many episodes but his character just got 100x more interesting. Rainbow has the potential to play the best bad guy yet on Atlantis - Kolya is a chump. Atlantis execs/writers - get your shtuff together please. Put Rainbow in as many episodes as you can... your show will be better because of it.

Yeah, SuperFord got shoehorned awkwardly into the show. I could drive my Jeep through the plot holes concerning that, but I forgive them. They have some of the best writers in the business and I'm confident that no "armchair screenwriters" could have done it much better. Yeah, they could have locked him up... but the Atlantis team are super goodie goodies and he was still Ford. They had to introduce the arc into EP1 so that they could get Ford out of the way and introduce Ronan cleanly shortly thereafter. Introducing multiple new characters in only one episode ALWAYS comes off awkwardly and with a lack of full details.

Anyhow, Atlantis opened up Season 2 with a running start. Nice job guys and gals!

- Josh