Originally posted by SnoggingPicard
Okay, I watched "Conversion" again because I couldn't sleep at all last night because I was just soooo confused about everything that happened. If you read my last, long, lengthy post you'll know that I couldn't see where the writers were going with all of the relationship stuff that seemed to be going on. Well, after my second viewing (and I did take notes!), I've got some more ideas, and I feel a little better about it...at least, I think that I can finally start thinking about something else! 
1) The Kiss: When he asks her to call him John, she doesn't really seemed freaked out or scared...more surprised, like it's something she just wasn't expecting. Same with the kiss -- kind of confused and blown away by what just happened than really terrified of him. Sheppard is also concerned for her, and just a little shocked by what happened, but not unpleasantly so. IMO, it is something that he's always wanted to do, and having his inhibitions lessened by the illness, he just got carried away. His lack of control only lasts a moment, but he immediately goes to Teyla -- he even tells Weir and Beckett in the next scene that he feels perfectly fine! And again, Teyla doesn't tell anyone about his odd behavior, probably because she isn't really sure how it's making her feel.
2) Caldwell/Weir: The first scene that these two have together (the chess one), is interesting. I definitely picked up some flirting from them on both ends, and it is clear that he deeply respects her. The next conversation that they have, when she asks him to take over Sheppard's duties, had one of the only clear Shep/Weir moments I could pick up on, when he notices that "You two are pretty close?" There's kind of an awkward silence until she explains that "We've been through a lot together." Hmmm.
3) Weir/Shep alone scenes: First off, Weir is really naive and dumb to go into a room with someone de-evolving into a Wraith/life sucking bug without some sort of protection. I love the woman, but come on! They have a lot of scenes together, and for all she knows, he'll be dead in only a few days...but neither of them even start to say anything remotely shippy about how they feel. Most of the time, she's checking in on how he's feeling and updating him about the progress of the cure. He's mostly telling her that she shouldn't be there because he's dangerous, breaking windows, demanding that she send people to their deaths to help save him, and choking her when she doesn't comply. One of the only really touching scenes I saw between them that made me think "ship!" was when he asks her to have him killed. She kind of stares at him for a minute, and then looks down, too overwhelmed to even say anything. And then he says "It'll be better for both of us", which is very interesting wording. Oh yeah -- when John first comes to visit her in her office with his new security detail she reminds him that "It's only protocol" to which he responds "That's your answer for everything." Well, what is the protocol for getting involved with your colleague? Surely that is against some sort of protocol as well? Just a fascinating line about Weir's priorities and how he sees them.
4) Weir's behavior: When I first watched this, I was like, "Wow, she is so broken up about this!" But then I watched it again and I was struck by how in control she was about everything. Naturally she was upset about what was happening to Sheppard, but she managed to keep a level-head and a pragmatic view of the situation, much more so than the other characters. When John, for example, demands that she send another team to find the eggs, she refuses. Even though she understands that she is basically signing his death warrant by doing so, she says that she cannot risk the lives of more people just to save him, a very difficult, mature thing to say. All of the others (Teyla, Ronon, Beckett, and McKay) want to do everything possible to save Sheppard, even putting their own lives at risk in order to do so. But Weir knows that as leader of the station, she has hard choices to make, and having to choose between one life and another is something she has to face. Another moment along this line is when she goes to see Ronon, Teyla, and McKay to tell them that it is time for them to say goodbye. McKay and Teyla are absolutely devastated, and even though Weir is also upset, she manages to keep on her leader face for the sake of the others, ready to accept what will happen. She is the one who most has a lid on her emotions, and manages to balance her concern for John with what is best for everyone involved.
5) Ronon/Teyla stuff: Definitely some little tidbits of things here, though whether it is friendship or 'shippy is yet to be seen. When he's ribbing McKay, for example, they exchange smiles, and when they leave to find Sheppard, Teyla doesn't seem to want to believe she has to do this. Ronon asks if she's going to be able to go through with it. And again, when Ronon breaks off from their group during the pursuit, she calls after him with a voice filled with...some sort of emotion. It's weird. Go watch it again.
6) Teyla's actions: I wish we got more screentime with her and Shep, but she did a great job in this episode. When Weir deploys the teams to find Sheppard, she pauses as though completely unable to wrap her mind around what she has to do. Loved the little look that she and Weir exchanged, as though each knew what the other was feeling and they were drawing strength from each other. Hope we see more of that later on. When John attacks the other four members of her team when they're pursuing him, he completely ignores her until she calls to him. She is clearly terrified about what she might have to do (listen to her voice!), and instead chooses to frighten him off instead of actually shooting. Finally, when Shep and the team goes to find the eggs, the camera stays on her face a few extra seconds between scenes (when he goes into the cave, and when Ronon picks up Shep and leaves). The looks that she gives tells us everything we need to know about what she is feeling. Brilliant.
7) The Last Scene: So John's apologizing for maybe being out of character...but he didn't go to Weir, whom he tried to choke. So this means that kissing the woman that you have found attractive since Day One is out of character but strangling your boss isn't? Hmmm. Anyway, lots of stuff went on in this one, and I had to watch it several times to sort it all out. First, I definitely got the impression that they were flirting with each other (around the "100% John Sheppard line"). He gives her a heavy, meaningful look before he broaches the subject of what he did, as though he's trying to figure out exactly what he needs to say, but neither of them seems to want to address what happened. When he goes to apologize, he almost seems reluctant, as though he really wasn't sorry for what happened, and he never actually says that kissing her was a mistake or something he regretted. And the way that Teyla cuts him off before he can say anything like that makes me think that she doesn't exactly regret it either. And did anyone else notice this: after she tells him to give the incident no further thought, he says his line "Good...I won't" in a really weird manner. It's almost as if they understand that the action, while surprising, wasn't without a base, and that neither of them wants to admit that they were unhappy about what happened. That line carries a lot of weight and a strange emphasis, like she's invited him to carry on something that he's started...but what that could be, I have no idea. Of course, she still is calling him John, and she seems to like having that familarity. Finally, watch the look that he gets on his face when she walks away -- he watches her go with this little smile, and his eyes are working, almost like he's trying to figure out what just happened between them.
And the sigh. Many people have been interpreting it as complete relief on her part that it is over and that the moment was extremely uncomfortable. I didn't get the feeling that she was uncomfortable with what happened -- they both seemed to get more agitated when they were going to address it, as though they were happier having it lie between them unresolved and untouched. The relief seemed to come from the fact that they would still be able to be friends and that the kiss, though addressed, was not forgotten and not dismissed. Just my opinion, but she seemed a little flushed from their conversation. I just got out of high school, so the look on her face reminded me of those that girls sometimes get right after they talk to their major crush. They play it cool and keep a hold of themselves to his face, but as soon as they turn away, they're blushing from the encounter. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's what I got out of it.
8) Weir/Shep 'ship: Before this episode, I was kind of torn between what 'ship I liked better and which one I saw more of a future for. After watching it for the first time, I was so mixed up I wanted to cry or puke because things seemed to have gotten even more complicated and messed up. Having watched it again (watching for both ships), I think that nearly all of the stuff between Weir/Shep was the understandable reactions of someone's colleague, friend, and protector. I barely saw anything that really smacked of romance between the two of them or out of line/inappropriate concern that bordered on romance. What I saw was one friend that was terrified she was going to lose another and trying to balance what she owed him as a friend with what her position as leader called for her to do. I see a strong, trusting relationship between them, but not one that is destined for romance, though that could easily happen if TPTB decide to go that route. I was looking hard for that spark, I wanted to see it and recognize it...but I couldn't. Sheppard and Weir had many marvelous scenes together, but they were scenes of emotional angst and tried friendship. Teyla and Sheppard had much fewer scenes, but those were based on tension, attraction, unresolved moments, and questions about their future. Still not convinced one way or another about the ships, but "Conversion" didn't put the death seal on any of them -- it just left lots of new doors open.
Okay. Wow, I wrote a lot more than I was intending to. Thanks to all of you who took the time to read this ungodly mess, and any comments or rebuttals you care to make would be awesome. Getting some real conversations and discussions going on this thread would be great.
Spoiler:
1) The Kiss: When he asks her to call him John, she doesn't really seemed freaked out or scared...more surprised, like it's something she just wasn't expecting. Same with the kiss -- kind of confused and blown away by what just happened than really terrified of him. Sheppard is also concerned for her, and just a little shocked by what happened, but not unpleasantly so. IMO, it is something that he's always wanted to do, and having his inhibitions lessened by the illness, he just got carried away. His lack of control only lasts a moment, but he immediately goes to Teyla -- he even tells Weir and Beckett in the next scene that he feels perfectly fine! And again, Teyla doesn't tell anyone about his odd behavior, probably because she isn't really sure how it's making her feel.
2) Caldwell/Weir: The first scene that these two have together (the chess one), is interesting. I definitely picked up some flirting from them on both ends, and it is clear that he deeply respects her. The next conversation that they have, when she asks him to take over Sheppard's duties, had one of the only clear Shep/Weir moments I could pick up on, when he notices that "You two are pretty close?" There's kind of an awkward silence until she explains that "We've been through a lot together." Hmmm.
3) Weir/Shep alone scenes: First off, Weir is really naive and dumb to go into a room with someone de-evolving into a Wraith/life sucking bug without some sort of protection. I love the woman, but come on! They have a lot of scenes together, and for all she knows, he'll be dead in only a few days...but neither of them even start to say anything remotely shippy about how they feel. Most of the time, she's checking in on how he's feeling and updating him about the progress of the cure. He's mostly telling her that she shouldn't be there because he's dangerous, breaking windows, demanding that she send people to their deaths to help save him, and choking her when she doesn't comply. One of the only really touching scenes I saw between them that made me think "ship!" was when he asks her to have him killed. She kind of stares at him for a minute, and then looks down, too overwhelmed to even say anything. And then he says "It'll be better for both of us", which is very interesting wording. Oh yeah -- when John first comes to visit her in her office with his new security detail she reminds him that "It's only protocol" to which he responds "That's your answer for everything." Well, what is the protocol for getting involved with your colleague? Surely that is against some sort of protocol as well? Just a fascinating line about Weir's priorities and how he sees them.
4) Weir's behavior: When I first watched this, I was like, "Wow, she is so broken up about this!" But then I watched it again and I was struck by how in control she was about everything. Naturally she was upset about what was happening to Sheppard, but she managed to keep a level-head and a pragmatic view of the situation, much more so than the other characters. When John, for example, demands that she send another team to find the eggs, she refuses. Even though she understands that she is basically signing his death warrant by doing so, she says that she cannot risk the lives of more people just to save him, a very difficult, mature thing to say. All of the others (Teyla, Ronon, Beckett, and McKay) want to do everything possible to save Sheppard, even putting their own lives at risk in order to do so. But Weir knows that as leader of the station, she has hard choices to make, and having to choose between one life and another is something she has to face. Another moment along this line is when she goes to see Ronon, Teyla, and McKay to tell them that it is time for them to say goodbye. McKay and Teyla are absolutely devastated, and even though Weir is also upset, she manages to keep on her leader face for the sake of the others, ready to accept what will happen. She is the one who most has a lid on her emotions, and manages to balance her concern for John with what is best for everyone involved.
5) Ronon/Teyla stuff: Definitely some little tidbits of things here, though whether it is friendship or 'shippy is yet to be seen. When he's ribbing McKay, for example, they exchange smiles, and when they leave to find Sheppard, Teyla doesn't seem to want to believe she has to do this. Ronon asks if she's going to be able to go through with it. And again, when Ronon breaks off from their group during the pursuit, she calls after him with a voice filled with...some sort of emotion. It's weird. Go watch it again.
6) Teyla's actions: I wish we got more screentime with her and Shep, but she did a great job in this episode. When Weir deploys the teams to find Sheppard, she pauses as though completely unable to wrap her mind around what she has to do. Loved the little look that she and Weir exchanged, as though each knew what the other was feeling and they were drawing strength from each other. Hope we see more of that later on. When John attacks the other four members of her team when they're pursuing him, he completely ignores her until she calls to him. She is clearly terrified about what she might have to do (listen to her voice!), and instead chooses to frighten him off instead of actually shooting. Finally, when Shep and the team goes to find the eggs, the camera stays on her face a few extra seconds between scenes (when he goes into the cave, and when Ronon picks up Shep and leaves). The looks that she gives tells us everything we need to know about what she is feeling. Brilliant.
7) The Last Scene: So John's apologizing for maybe being out of character...but he didn't go to Weir, whom he tried to choke. So this means that kissing the woman that you have found attractive since Day One is out of character but strangling your boss isn't? Hmmm. Anyway, lots of stuff went on in this one, and I had to watch it several times to sort it all out. First, I definitely got the impression that they were flirting with each other (around the "100% John Sheppard line"). He gives her a heavy, meaningful look before he broaches the subject of what he did, as though he's trying to figure out exactly what he needs to say, but neither of them seems to want to address what happened. When he goes to apologize, he almost seems reluctant, as though he really wasn't sorry for what happened, and he never actually says that kissing her was a mistake or something he regretted. And the way that Teyla cuts him off before he can say anything like that makes me think that she doesn't exactly regret it either. And did anyone else notice this: after she tells him to give the incident no further thought, he says his line "Good...I won't" in a really weird manner. It's almost as if they understand that the action, while surprising, wasn't without a base, and that neither of them wants to admit that they were unhappy about what happened. That line carries a lot of weight and a strange emphasis, like she's invited him to carry on something that he's started...but what that could be, I have no idea. Of course, she still is calling him John, and she seems to like having that familarity. Finally, watch the look that he gets on his face when she walks away -- he watches her go with this little smile, and his eyes are working, almost like he's trying to figure out what just happened between them.
And the sigh. Many people have been interpreting it as complete relief on her part that it is over and that the moment was extremely uncomfortable. I didn't get the feeling that she was uncomfortable with what happened -- they both seemed to get more agitated when they were going to address it, as though they were happier having it lie between them unresolved and untouched. The relief seemed to come from the fact that they would still be able to be friends and that the kiss, though addressed, was not forgotten and not dismissed. Just my opinion, but she seemed a little flushed from their conversation. I just got out of high school, so the look on her face reminded me of those that girls sometimes get right after they talk to their major crush. They play it cool and keep a hold of themselves to his face, but as soon as they turn away, they're blushing from the encounter. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's what I got out of it.
8) Weir/Shep 'ship: Before this episode, I was kind of torn between what 'ship I liked better and which one I saw more of a future for. After watching it for the first time, I was so mixed up I wanted to cry or puke because things seemed to have gotten even more complicated and messed up. Having watched it again (watching for both ships), I think that nearly all of the stuff between Weir/Shep was the understandable reactions of someone's colleague, friend, and protector. I barely saw anything that really smacked of romance between the two of them or out of line/inappropriate concern that bordered on romance. What I saw was one friend that was terrified she was going to lose another and trying to balance what she owed him as a friend with what her position as leader called for her to do. I see a strong, trusting relationship between them, but not one that is destined for romance, though that could easily happen if TPTB decide to go that route. I was looking hard for that spark, I wanted to see it and recognize it...but I couldn't. Sheppard and Weir had many marvelous scenes together, but they were scenes of emotional angst and tried friendship. Teyla and Sheppard had much fewer scenes, but those were based on tension, attraction, unresolved moments, and questions about their future. Still not convinced one way or another about the ships, but "Conversion" didn't put the death seal on any of them -- it just left lots of new doors open.
Okay. Wow, I wrote a lot more than I was intending to. Thanks to all of you who took the time to read this ungodly mess, and any comments or rebuttals you care to make would be awesome. Getting some real conversations and discussions going on this thread would be great.
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