John Sheppard/Teyla Emmagan Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[xkawaiix]

Hey guys! I haven't been by this thread much but... just wanted to say

Spoiler:

congrats on the kiss and ending!

And I'm happy that you're happy that you're ship set sail.

[SallyLizzie]

Haven't seen the ep but have read the spoilers and i just wanted to second xkawaiix.

Spoiler:

Congats on your kiss and what i hear was a shippysheyla ep

[SnoggingPicard]

OMG!!!! Greatest episode since "The Gift"!!! Lots of Sheppard/Weir, which made me nervous, but the last scene was amazing!!! That look that she gave at the end totally made up for everything. I figured that the last "recovery" scene would feature either Weir or Teyla, and when it was Teyla!!! You could have peeled me off the ceiling!!! So, from now on she's calling him John, and the kiss was awesome, and they both remember it, and she didn't push him away when it happened, and the last scene -- SQUEE! I've watched it twelve times already. Love the weight of the line that he says after she tells him not to worry about what happened -- he seems almost thankful that she isn't upset by him. The doors between them are definitely NOT closed, and they are SO still my favorite ship!! I want this thread to be filled to the brims by tomorrow morning!!! I'm off to watch "Conversion" again!!

[ladyjanus]

Spoiler:

Loved the kiss, been waiting for some of that. Shep and Teyla have had me in their corner right from the beginning.

I for one want to see more, and there's no reason I can see that we shouldn't, Not like Sam/Jack with the regs in the way and all. After nearly nine years in the Stargate universe I need some romance, real romance...

ladyjanus

BTW, the bits with Caldwell and Weir were very interesting too...

[aaobuttons]

You both want to put your comments in spoilers please, our friends in the UK haven't had the opportunity to see the episode yet.


I just want to add that I want to see some Sheyla vids come out of this episode, and I'd be willing to trade a fic for it.

[Sheylafan87]

OMG!!!

Spoiler:

It was fracking kool.The kiss was quick but WOW.John really knew how to blow her away with that kiss.The ending was ok but they really didnt talk about it.Teyla looked as though he might bring it up when he walked in on her session with a athosian.He was back to normal and went to talk to Teyla which was nice thing to do,I think John and Teyla will talk about that again in the next season or thie second half of the season (hopefully)Teyla was really shocked when he just kissed her and that was great scene to watch,They r going to have to talk about that kiss sooner or later.Hopefully John brings it up when they spar again.john actually used one hand and he wasnt even tired.It waasssss a fracking great eppy.

[ladyjanus]

[QUOTE=aaobuttons]You both want to put your comments in spoilers please, our friends in the UK haven't had the opportunity to see the episode yet.QUOTE]

Thanks for the reminder, and I sincerely apologize to all the readers. My only excuse is ignorance and a lack of experience in forum decorum. I believe I have corrected the problem and have learned how to use the spoilers feature. I promise to do better in the future....

ladyjanus

[Kip_Cathey_Furlings_are_Cats]

Finnaly! A REAL discussion! Man its been far too long.

Hans, I give you huggles and ECookies for telling off Pam! Maybe if it becomes obvious NONE of us want her, she'll get the message.

But enough about that.

Tonights ep was OMG!

Spoiler:

The Kiss wasnt what I had been expecting, but, Teyla didnt pull back and Shep just had his inhibitions lowered And she checks out his bum as he walks by at the end! Weeee! And they actually MENTION the kiss, if not in a roundabout way.

And she calls him John! WHOOTWHOOOOOT!

Anyone else really enjoy this epi, or did it not live up to your expectations? Hmm?

[SnoggingPicard]

I've watched "Conversion" again, and I am just so confused. I don't know what to think at this point.

Spoiler:

I was surprised at the amount of screen time that Weir got during this episode. I love her character and it was good to see her finally get some strong material, but I was disappointed that we didn't get to really see the reactions of the rest of the cast to John's disease. Ronon had about two lines, Teyla bookended, and McKay had basically zip screen time. And I definitely felt cheated that we couldn't see at least one of those private goodbyes that Weir mentioned. Lost opportunity that I will chalk up to the realms of fanfiction. The kiss -- all I can say is that she didn't push him away, and she definitely could have if she wanted to. The look on her face was kind of shocked and scared but also kind of confused, like something happened that she just hadn't prepared for. She wasn't angry, and she didn't go running to Beckett to tell him what happened, so what does that mean? He was able to get control of himself really quickly, so how much of that was due to the Wraith stuff? And then the end scene, which I really liked. I figured that the last scene would either be between Shep and Weir or Shep and Teyla, so I'm glad we got that in. Again, the look that she had when she turned away (kind of a smile/sigh) -- I don't think it was relief in the sense of "thank God that's over" more relief in the sense "geez, this is really weird. He's so cute!" Does that make sense? It was definitely not a stop on the 'ship, but I don't know exactly where it's going either.

Speaking of 'ships, now I am sooo torn about what TPTB are going to do. They're throwing us so many bones and red herrings for who Shep is going to end up with (if anyone). I liked the Shep/Weir scenes a lot, but I still am not picking up a serious romantic vibe. The statement that threw me was Caldwell's, something like "He's really important to you, isn't he?" That screams 'ship, but most of her scenes with Shep, though touching and emotionally realistic, just struck me as someone terrified that she was going to lose her colleague and best friend. They care for each other a great deal, but there was nothing here besides Caldwell's comment that made me seriously think that TPTB have definitely decided to pursue this. They were alone together a lot, and she said a lot of very personal things to him, but she never once mentioned anything along the 'ship vein. Just the sheer number of the scenes they had together really had me pondering whether the writers have decided to go this route. I'm really not sure, and this is coming from someone who is kind of sitting on the fence about what 'ship to support. The dynamic between Shep and Weir is strong, powerful, and often very well-written, but to me, it is still in the stages of a trusting friendship. They both understand each other so well because they are in the same position on "Atlantis", one of responsibility and authority. And in this case, it was Elizabeth's responsibility that could be blamed for Shep's illness -- she allowed him and the team to continue to work with Elia, which lead to him getting the retrovirus. Could she have been feeling some measure of guilt? Don't know. I seriously do not know what to think about this matter of shippiness. There are definite moments for each of them in the episode, and there seems to be no definitive route that the writers have decided to take. All I can say is he made out with Teyla and tried to strangle Weir...and who did he apologize to?

To me, Shep/Weir wouldn't happen and be really shown onscreen because they are both too dedicated to their jobs on Atlantis. They are both so consumed with doing what is right in their positions and being the leaders that they need to be to compromise their postions like that. She is a civilian, but I think that this relationship would turn into another Jack/Sam, and I don't know if I can handle another stale, stagnant thing like that. Teyla and Shep (now John to her!) could survive and become an actual, viewed relationship. Also, did anyone pick up on the little Teyla/Ronon moments? When he was teasing McKay and before they left to find Sheppard? Those threw me off too, and I still don't know what to make of them. Seriously, this episode could be taken in so many ways depending on your 'ship preference. And for someone like me, who has an inner tug-of-war going on right now, this definitely didn't help. I'm left even more confused and at a loss than I was before, and though this was a great episode, it didn't help me clear up any questions -- it just created more.

I wonder if TPTB have even decided what they're going to do yet as far as ships go. If they're going to go the John/Teyla route, why put in Caldwell's comment about Weir and Sheppard's connection. And similarly, if they've put the kibosh on that and are going with Weir/Shep, why the kiss? It could just as easily been done to Elizabeth at some point in the show, so why pick Teyla? I hope they make up their minds one way or the other. I need something to root for, and ambiguous, confusing episodes like this are giving me insomnia and massive headaches. I just don't know what to think. My half-half stance is even worse right now. The Shep/Weir thread is in full-throttle right now, and I know they'll make out every scene that the two of them had together as evidence for the 'ship. Their relationship is growing on me, but as much as I try, I don't really see her concern for him extending into the romantic realm, at least not yet. It is completely possible that this will someday be looked upon as the turning point for a Shweir or Sheyla, but right now it is hard to see what direction it will inevitably take.

I could go on for about another six pages, but my head hurts from all of this thinking. Oh yes, I introduced my friend to "Atlantis" starting two weeks ago, and after watching tonight's episode, he says that he definitely sees more stuff with Shep/Teyla than with Shep/Weir. Thought I'd mention it. Maybe I'll be able to make more sense of what happened later in the morning. Goodnight everyone, and please post your reactions to what happened. Did anyone feel as betrayed and torn as I did about the 'ships?

[Oenone]

I've watched "Conversion" again, and I am just so confused. I don't know what to think at this point.

Spoiler:

I was surprised at the amount of screen time that Weir got during this episode. I love her character and it was good to see her finally get some strong material, but I was disappointed that we didn't get to really see the reactions of the rest of the cast to John's disease. Ronon had about two lines, Teyla bookended, and McKay had basically zip screen time. And I definitely felt cheated that we couldn't see at least one of those private goodbyes that Weir mentioned. Lost opportunity that I will chalk up to the realms of fanfiction. The kiss -- all I can say is that she didn't push him away, and she definitely could have if she wanted to. The look on her face was kind of shocked and scared but also kind of confused, like something happened that she just hadn't prepared for. She wasn't angry, and she didn't go running to Beckett to tell him what happened, so what does that mean? He was able to get control of himself really quickly, so how much of that was due to the Wraith stuff? And then the end scene, which I really liked. I figured that the last scene would either be between Shep and Weir or Shep and Teyla, so I'm glad we got that in. Again, the look that she had when she turned away (kind of a smile/sigh) -- I don't think it was relief in the sense of "thank God that's over" more relief in the sense "geez, this is really weird. He's so cute!" Does that make sense? It was definitely not a stop on the 'ship, but I don't know exactly where it's going either.

Speaking of 'ships, now I am sooo torn about what TPTB are going to do. They're throwing us so many bones and red herrings for who Shep is going to end up with (if anyone). I liked the Shep/Weir scenes a lot, but I still am not picking up a serious romantic vibe. The statement that threw me was Caldwell's, something like "He's really important to you, isn't he?" That screams 'ship, but most of her scenes with Shep, though touching and emotionally realistic, just struck me as someone terrified that she was going to lose her colleague and best friend. They care for each other a great deal, but there was nothing here besides Caldwell's comment that made me seriously think that TPTB have definitely decided to pursue this. They were alone together a lot, and she said a lot of very personal things to him, but she never once mentioned anything along the 'ship vein. Just the sheer number of the scenes they had together really had me pondering whether the writers have decided to go this route. I'm really not sure, and this is coming from someone who is kind of sitting on the fence about what 'ship to support. The dynamic between Shep and Weir is strong, powerful, and often very well-written, but to me, it is still in the stages of a trusting friendship. They both understand each other so well because they are in the same position on "Atlantis", one of responsibility and authority. And in this case, it was Elizabeth's responsibility that could be blamed for Shep's illness -- she allowed him and the team to continue to work with Elia, which lead to him getting the retrovirus. Could she have been feeling some measure of guilt? Don't know. I seriously do not know what to think about this matter of shippiness. There are definite moments for each of them in the episode, and there seems to be no definitive route that the writers have decided to take. All I can say is he made out with Teyla and tried to strangle Weir...and who did he apologize to?

To me, Shep/Weir wouldn't happen and be really shown onscreen because they are both too dedicated to their jobs on Atlantis. They are both so consumed with doing what is right in their positions and being the leaders that they need to be to compromise their postions like that. She is a civilian, but I think that this relationship would turn into another Jack/Sam, and I don't know if I can handle another stale, stagnant thing like that. Teyla and Shep (now John to her!) could survive and become an actual, viewed relationship. Also, did anyone pick up on the little Teyla/Ronon moments? When he was teasing McKay and before they left to find Sheppard? Those threw me off too, and I still don't know what to make of them. Seriously, this episode could be taken in so many ways depending on your 'ship preference. And for someone like me, who has an inner tug-of-war going on right now, this definitely didn't help. I'm left even more confused and at a loss than I was before, and though this was a great episode, it didn't help me clear up any questions -- it just created more.

I wonder if TPTB have even decided what they're going to do yet as far as ships go. If they're going to go the John/Teyla route, why put in Caldwell's comment about Weir and Sheppard's connection. And similarly, if they've put the kibosh on that and are going with Weir/Shep, why the kiss? It could just as easily been done to Elizabeth at some point in the show, so why pick Teyla? I hope they make up their minds one way or the other. I need something to root for, and ambiguous, confusing episodes like this are giving me insomnia and massive headaches. I just don't know what to think. My half-half stance is even worse right now. The Shep/Weir thread is in full-throttle right now, and I know they'll make out every scene that the two of them had together as evidence for the 'ship. Their relationship is growing on me, but as much as I try, I don't really see her concern for him extending into the romantic realm, at least not yet. It is completely possible that this will someday be looked upon as the turning point for a Shweir or Sheyla, but right now it is hard to see what direction it will inevitably take.

I could go on for about another six pages, but my head hurts from all of this thinking. Oh yes, I introduced my friend to "Atlantis" starting two weeks ago, and after watching tonight's episode, he says that he definitely sees more stuff with Shep/Teyla than with Shep/Weir. Thought I'd mention it. Maybe I'll be able to make more sense of what happened later in the morning. Goodnight everyone, and please post your reactions to what happened. Did anyone feel as betrayed and torn as I did about the 'ships?

Wow... that was... wow. Anyway, after reading *all* of that, I have to say I agree 100%. All I have to say is this,

Spoiler:

I can see where Shweir fans get their material, but to me, it's just a strong friendship. I know that if one of my friends were in that situation (something that would *never* happen in Seattle), I would be just as concerned as Weir was. They are both strong characters and make very good friends. However, I am still an *avid* Sheyla fan. I mean come on, the kiss was *amazing*, and the ending scene was so great. I do wish there had been more interaction between them. Maybe if we had scene a 'goodbye' scene, but I was very pleased with this epi. GO SHEYLA!!!!

I just hope that TPTB know what they're doing and have a clear idea where this is going cause I really don't think ships are something to do by the seat of your pants. It concerns a very delicate emotion that must be written about carefully to be believable. I just hope for more epis like Conversion!!!!

[astronomicalchick]

[/SPOILERS]

I could go on for about another six pages, but my head hurts from all of this thinking. Oh yes, I introduced my friend to "Atlantis" starting two weeks ago, and after watching tonight's episode, he says that he definitely sees more stuff with Shep/Teyla than with Shep/Weir. Thought I'd mention it. Maybe I'll be able to make more sense of what happened later in the morning. Goodnight everyone, and please post your reactions to what happened. Did anyone feel as betrayed and torn as I did about the 'ships?

Gosh that was a lot SP, and very good stuff. Briefly, I said over the S/W thread that I thought PTB would leave this episode so we'd all get something out of it and it sounds like it did, which is good. I'm definately a fan of leaving things open so that shippers can project what they like on it. It sounds like to me that's what the PTB will do for some time yet, if not until the end of Atlantis, if I were them that's what I'd do, there's nothing that keeps folks guessing than will they/won't they? Or does he/she/it like he/she/it?

For one, I'm glad that

Spoiler:

the kiss wasn't an assault and was more a primal/loss of inhibitions thing. For the sake of Sheppard's character and the integrity of the PTB. Now you guys can entertain yourselves with the thoughts that IF ONLY Sheppard wasn't burdened by command/a bit anal, he'd be kissing Teyla all the time. (I know how shippers think). As for Teyla's reaction, I'm a bit confused by that, because my fantasy Teyla would have nailed that John was sexually attracted to her, because let's face it, she must be used to men coming onto her all the time, so the surprise thing mystifies me a wee bit. I don't know I'll have to watch it before I can make up my mind.

Oh, BTW, I watched Atlantis with a male friend of mine a few months ago, it was Hot Zone. I said to him, "Which woman does Sheppard have the vibe with? Elizabeth or Teyla" and he said Teyla, because "Look, he's got his head in her breasts" I just rolled my eyes and threw a cushion at him.

[aaobuttons]

I've read alot of comments about how

Spoiler:

the kiss didn't count because he didn't mean it because he was infected, but at that early stage of infection he was still himself. He told Weir that he felt like when he was on Codine and for those who have never been on codine, it's like having a couple of beers. You feel really good and your inhibitions are looser. So while he might not on a normal day of kissed her, with his inhibitions loosened, he felt like he could. He did it because he wanted to, and the reasoning that would normally stop him wasn't being listened to at that point. What I find almost as interesting in this episode as the kiss is the fact that any contact Sheppard had with Weir was angry or violent. He argued and snapped at her, he broke her window, he choked her; and even if an arguement can be made that the later events happened when he wasn't as lucid, I still find it interesting. Also the fact that when he took out everyone else that came after him, he left Teyla alone. Even after Teyla fired towards him, which was an obvious act of hostility (since people will say he didn't see her as a threat originally), he was still himself enough to not attack her but to run away. To not attack Teyla when she was an obvious threat, but to attack Weir when she posed no threat I think says it all!

[cherryblossomjen]

SnoggingPiccard, you were right on the money when you predicted that there would be parallels between 'Conversion' and 'Broca Divide.'

FOr the first half of the episode I was reminded of Broca Divide and Upgrades (think the scene between Oneil and Teal'c boxing). I don't think this is a bad thing, as stories are bound to be similar -- that's how life is. Besides, there were enough elements of the episode that were original.

[SnoggingPicard]

Okay, I watched "Conversion" again because I couldn't sleep at all last night because I was just soooo confused about everything that happened. If you read my last, long, lengthy post you'll know that I couldn't see where the writers were going with all of the relationship stuff that seemed to be going on. Well, after my second viewing (and I did take notes!), I've got some more ideas, and I feel a little better about it...at least, I think that I can finally start thinking about something else!

Spoiler:

1) The Kiss: When he asks her to call him John, she doesn't really seemed freaked out or scared...more surprised, like it's something she just wasn't expecting. Same with the kiss -- kind of confused and blown away by what just happened than really terrified of him. Sheppard is also concerned for her, and just a little shocked by what happened, but not unpleasantly so. IMO, it is something that he's always wanted to do, and having his inhibitions lessened by the illness, he just got carried away. His lack of control only lasts a moment, but he immediately goes to Teyla -- he even tells Weir and Beckett in the next scene that he feels perfectly fine! And again, Teyla doesn't tell anyone about his odd behavior, probably because she isn't really sure how it's making her feel.

2) Caldwell/Weir: The first scene that these two have together (the chess one), is interesting. I definitely picked up some flirting from them on both ends, and it is clear that he deeply respects her. The next conversation that they have, when she asks him to take over Sheppard's duties, had one of the only clear Shep/Weir moments I could pick up on, when he notices that "You two are pretty close?" There's kind of an awkward silence until she explains that "We've been through a lot together." Hmmm.

3) Weir/Shep alone scenes: First off, Weir is really naive and dumb to go into a room with someone de-evolving into a Wraith/life sucking bug without some sort of protection. I love the woman, but come on! They have a lot of scenes together, and for all she knows, he'll be dead in only a few days...but neither of them even start to say anything remotely shippy about how they feel. Most of the time, she's checking in on how he's feeling and updating him about the progress of the cure. He's mostly telling her that she shouldn't be there because he's dangerous, breaking windows, demanding that she send people to their deaths to help save him, and choking her when she doesn't comply. One of the only really touching scenes I saw between them that made me think "ship!" was when he asks her to have him killed. She kind of stares at him for a minute, and then looks down, too overwhelmed to even say anything. And then he says "It'll be better for both of us", which is very interesting wording. Oh yeah -- when John first comes to visit her in her office with his new security detail she reminds him that "It's only protocol" to which he responds "That's your answer for everything." Well, what is the protocol for getting involved with your colleague? Surely that is against some sort of protocol as well? Just a fascinating line about Weir's priorities and how he sees them.

4) Weir's behavior: When I first watched this, I was like, "Wow, she is so broken up about this!" But then I watched it again and I was struck by how in control she was about everything. Naturally she was upset about what was happening to Sheppard, but she managed to keep a level-head and a pragmatic view of the situation, much more so than the other characters. When John, for example, demands that she send another team to find the eggs, she refuses. Even though she understands that she is basically signing his death warrant by doing so, she says that she cannot risk the lives of more people just to save him, a very difficult, mature thing to say. All of the others (Teyla, Ronon, Beckett, and McKay) want to do everything possible to save Sheppard, even putting their own lives at risk in order to do so. But Weir knows that as leader of the station, she has hard choices to make, and having to choose between one life and another is something she has to face. Another moment along this line is when she goes to see Ronon, Teyla, and McKay to tell them that it is time for them to say goodbye. McKay and Teyla are absolutely devastated, and even though Weir is also upset, she manages to keep on her leader face for the sake of the others, ready to accept what will happen. She is the one who most has a lid on her emotions, and manages to balance her concern for John with what is best for everyone involved.

5) Ronon/Teyla stuff: Definitely some little tidbits of things here, though whether it is friendship or 'shippy is yet to be seen. When he's ribbing McKay, for example, they exchange smiles, and when they leave to find Sheppard, Teyla doesn't seem to want to believe she has to do this. Ronon asks if she's going to be able to go through with it. And again, when Ronon breaks off from their group during the pursuit, she calls after him with a voice filled with...some sort of emotion. It's weird. Go watch it again.

6) Teyla's actions: I wish we got more screentime with her and Shep, but she did a great job in this episode. When Weir deploys the teams to find Sheppard, she pauses as though completely unable to wrap her mind around what she has to do. Loved the little look that she and Weir exchanged, as though each knew what the other was feeling and they were drawing strength from each other. Hope we see more of that later on. When John attacks the other four members of her team when they're pursuing him, he completely ignores her until she calls to him. She is clearly terrified about what she might have to do (listen to her voice!), and instead chooses to frighten him off instead of actually shooting. Finally, when Shep and the team goes to find the eggs, the camera stays on her face a few extra seconds between scenes (when he goes into the cave, and when Ronon picks up Shep and leaves). The looks that she gives tells us everything we need to know about what she is feeling. Brilliant.

7) The Last Scene: So John's apologizing for maybe being out of character...but he didn't go to Weir, whom he tried to choke. So this means that kissing the woman that you have found attractive since Day One is out of character but strangling your boss isn't? Hmmm. Anyway, lots of stuff went on in this one, and I had to watch it several times to sort it all out. First, I definitely got the impression that they were flirting with each other (around the "100% John Sheppard line"). He gives her a heavy, meaningful look before he broaches the subject of what he did, as though he's trying to figure out exactly what he needs to say, but neither of them seems to want to address what happened. When he goes to apologize, he almost seems reluctant, as though he really wasn't sorry for what happened, and he never actually says that kissing her was a mistake or something he regretted. And the way that Teyla cuts him off before he can say anything like that makes me think that she doesn't exactly regret it either. And did anyone else notice this: after she tells him to give the incident no further thought, he says his line "Good...I won't" in a really weird manner. It's almost as if they understand that the action, while surprising, wasn't without a base, and that neither of them wants to admit that they were unhappy about what happened. That line carries a lot of weight and a strange emphasis, like she's invited him to carry on something that he's started...but what that could be, I have no idea. Of course, she still is calling him John, and she seems to like having that familarity. Finally, watch the look that he gets on his face when she walks away -- he watches her go with this little smile, and his eyes are working, almost like he's trying to figure out what just happened between them.

And the sigh. Many people have been interpreting it as complete relief on her part that it is over and that the moment was extremely uncomfortable. I didn't get the feeling that she was uncomfortable with what happened -- they both seemed to get more agitated when they were going to address it, as though they were happier having it lie between them unresolved and untouched. The relief seemed to come from the fact that they would still be able to be friends and that the kiss, though addressed, was not forgotten and not dismissed. Just my opinion, but she seemed a little flushed from their conversation. I just got out of high school, so the look on her face reminded me of those that girls sometimes get right after they talk to their major crush. They play it cool and keep a hold of themselves to his face, but as soon as they turn away, they're blushing from the encounter. Don't know if that makes sense, but that's what I got out of it.

8) Weir/Shep 'ship: Before this episode, I was kind of torn between what 'ship I liked better and which one I saw more of a future for. After watching it for the first time, I was so mixed up I wanted to cry or puke because things seemed to have gotten even more complicated and messed up. Having watched it again (watching for both ships), I think that nearly all of the stuff between Weir/Shep was the understandable reactions of someone's colleague, friend, and protector. I barely saw anything that really smacked of romance between the two of them or out of line/inappropriate concern that bordered on romance. What I saw was one friend that was terrified she was going to lose another and trying to balance what she owed him as a friend with what her position as leader called for her to do. I see a strong, trusting relationship between them, but not one that is destined for romance, though that could easily happen if TPTB decide to go that route. I was looking hard for that spark, I wanted to see it and recognize it...but I couldn't. Sheppard and Weir had many marvelous scenes together, but they were scenes of emotional angst and tried friendship. Teyla and Sheppard had much fewer scenes, but those were based on tension, attraction, unresolved moments, and questions about their future. Still not convinced one way or another about the ships, but "Conversion" didn't put the death seal on any of them -- it just left lots of new doors open.

Okay. Wow, I wrote a lot more than I was intending to. Thanks to all of you who took the time to read this ungodly mess, and any comments or rebuttals you care to make would be awesome. Getting some real conversations and discussions going on this thread would be great.

[NoDot]

Okay. Wow, I wrote a lot more than I was intending to. Thanks to all of you who took the time to read this ungodly mess, and any comments or rebuttals you care to make would be awesome. Getting some real conversations and discussions going on this thread would be great.

This was a lot? Pah, if you weren't already discussing the newest episodes of Atlantis, I'd be asking if you went under the name "Beth" on "alt.lang.asm".

I read it all. Don't be afraid to make long posts.