Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[sheppards2cool]

That's good enough for me

good enough for me too

[sheppards2cool]

I agree completely. If the kiss is

Spoiler:

one of those "I hate you, but I want you kind of scenes" then it would just be the pits--especially if it was between Shep and Teyla. This scenario sounds like something between Teyla and Ronan which would suit me perfectly fine!

I'd much rather see there be lots of angst between Shep and Weir for a while. Something with lots of great looks, casual touches and a build up to something that is genuine and unavoidable. The storyline has to grow before there can be a ship--that's why I want it to be something gradual.

agree....completely

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Actually considering the TV Guide article again. Does anyone else think that

Spoiler:

a kiss at the end of a fight scene reads like

a really cheesey, bad romance novel?

I'd prefer

Spoiler:

to be done in a spirit of equality and not as the alpha male overpowering the female. I really hope it's not Sheppard, or it's Sheppard while he's doing the conversion thing, because I'd be really disappointed if he's into that kind of rubbish. I kind of see him being very respectful toward a woman and not acting like a caveman.

Now who looks more like a caveman?

I agree there, doesn't sound like Shep's style, seems like something Dex might be into though. That reminds me of something else. At the conclusion of "The Eye" Shep runs up to Weir mumbling an apology for having to shoot around her. She never showed fear, but admitted she was not "all right" he responded "you will be". It was a beautiful scene. I hope the Weir/Sheppard relationship is allowed to grow gradually like that--showing the trust they have in each other, even in such deadly situations.

Great comments girlgater--agree there as well.

Royal

[Tomcatter]

Haha, I just got this visual from Gone with the Wind where Rhett Butler says, "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn," and then that whole scene where he carries Scarlett up the stairs.... speaking of cheesy romances, that is.

Where that came from, I don't know. I apologize.

Anyway, if Ronon is supposedly this whole wild, tough guy, maybe it's with him. That's my bet. Definitely doesn't sound like our Shep, at least not our normal Shep.

(omg there's a frickin' hurricane in my backyard)

[wizengamot]

hahaha... couldn't help myself...

ughhh it hurts!!

Ok now, for some REAL goodness...

awww! They so cute!!!

Watched atlantis all day yesterday. And cmon, how can they not get together in the long run?!? Maybe TPTB will try teyla/shep at first but I think in the end it will be Shep/Weir since they are more compatible. During Letters to Pegasus my sis said they (shep teyla) were like a married couple to which I added, that was about to get divorced. Shep and Weir have arguements a lot but they are generally on the same page, even if they get there differently due to their different backgrounds. Shep and Teyla to me seem like they have similar backgrounds but in the end they don't want the same thing so they would never really be on the same page. Did that make sense?

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Shep and Teyla to me seem like they have similar backgrounds but in the end they don't want the same thing so they would never really be on the same page. Did that make sense?

That does make sense. It seems that Teyla and Shep have somewhat similar instiincts it seems when it comes to certain issues. Although, sometimes Teyla agrees more with Weir (like taking the ZPM from the children etc). However, Shep and Weir are totally honest with each other, they don't really have secrets, don't skirt around issues and aren't afraid to disagree. Even when they disagree, both are amicable by the end. They also confide in each other (almost always on the balcony!). Teyla and Shep are both good fighters and have str9ong personalities, but Teyla seems to do all of the following. I think for a romance to actually work with Shep, he needs someone who can negotiate/stand up to him aka, Weir.

And about not wanting the same thing, I think you're right. I remember in LFP, Shep says "what do you expect of me?", Teyla responds, "too much I fear". That says to me they are definitely not on the same page.

Royal

[SallyLizzie]

Perfect sense Wizenmagot. Love the pic

P.S. Thanks for those reviews of "Destiny," and yes, I am doing a sequel, in which Elizabeth Ascends. I've got oodles of ideas going for that, including adding a bit of interaction btw her and Chaya.

Ooo that sounds VERY interesting indeed. Argh, you can't give us that and keep us hanging!

WELCOME MOONLIGHTREALGIRL!
I loved Quiot Riot and have just rec'd Shackled. Absolutely fabulous

Sheppard seems to flirt with a lot of girls. So he flirts a bit with Teyla, and realizes he doesn't like that dessert.

Hehe My bezzie went out with a lad for two years and he flirted with everybody, including moi. Didn't mean anything, it was just a bit of fun. Same with the recent spoiler,

Spoiler:

I've kissed alot of guys and it didn't mean diddly-squat, so even if Shep does tongue Teyla, I aint worried. Okay i've just read that and i swear to God i aint as slutty as it sounds.

[Ankareeda]

WeLcOmE Dorka, Nanks, Royal Nonesuch, Vixen, daisyflower, Whistler84 & MoonlightRealGirl!

Melyanna, great vids!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Blue Banrigh, fantastic vid.

Dorka, beautiful work, I especially love "I love your smile". *wow*

Athenaktt and all the others , have fun on the Con and please tell us everything!

Well, I started to watch Atlantis (February 2005 was the start in Germany) with the expectation that they push Sheppard/Teyla, I only read a few spoilers and I wasn't really informed. During watching the episode I found nothing to ship between them and at the end of the *road* "The Rising" I found my couple, Sheppard and Weir. The scenes with the two together were so much more shippy and the interaction was great. After "38 Minutes" I was confident totally with them (Shep/Weir).

Have a nice sunday!

[Luz]

And about not wanting the same thing, I think you're right. I remember in LFP, Shep says "what do you expect of me?", Teyla responds, "too much I fear".

When i saw her saying that line in LFP i thought she was finally giving up on her crush on Sheppard. There are this little lines on the episodes when i think i might be giving them too much thought, but it's unavoidable, personally this one from LFP, and the one from Sanctuary, you know when Sheppard says to Chaya that he had never found himself involved on a romantic situation with someone from another planet (or something along those lines), felt pretty much like a kick in the butt for Shep/Teyla. I honestly don't see why shippers hate this episode so much (well, i can understand Shep/Teyla's shippers hatred), but it was so good for Sheppard/Weir (when you get pass that Shep kissing Chaya thingy-details details). There was this wonderful bit of tension between Weir and Sheppard by the end, when Sheppard finds out about McKay scanning Chaya (see how he glares at Weir), and Weir lowering her head in worry when Sheppard leaves for Proculis, (or whatever, ridiculous name btw) my heart made a flip flop right then. Or the totally lacking of any ust, attraction, chemistry, jealousy, or whatever between Sheppard and Teyla when she was teasing him about Chaya. That episode was so bad for Shep/Teyla that i would love it just for that .

[FoolishPleasure]

LFP is where I truly turned from Teyla. She treated Shep with total disrespect. I also felt TPTB were using the end of the season to turn completely away from the Tey/Shep thing, and that's why I can't figure the rumors of T/S flirting in season 2. Of course, rumors are just that. . .rumors.

[SlytherinGal]

LFP is where I truly turned from Teyla. She treated Shep with total disrespect. I also felt TPTB were using the end of the season to turn completely away from the Tey/Shep thing, and that's why I can't figure the rumors of T/S flirting in season 2. Of course, rumors are just that. . .rumors.

Shep and Teyla argued/fought like an old married couple it seemed like in LFP, and I may not be a Shep/Weir shipper totally (more like a bro/sis relationship for me), but I would have to agree with you FP, Teyla did treat Shep with total disrespect in that episode and how she treated him when he told her that it was too dangerous to wait a long time for her people.

[FoolishPleasure]

In "Underground" Teyla gets into an argument with Sora's father (forget his name) on the Wraith ship, and he ends up shot with a Wraith stunner while Teyla runs away. Later we see everyone running into the puddlejumper and Sheppard turns to Teyla and asks, "Where is so-and-so?" and she says something like, "Uh, he didn't make it." Now, she not only didn't try to help the guy (who was only stunned), but she didn't even TELL anyone about it until Sheppard asked her when they were about to take off! (which is why I believe Teyla owes Sora a BIG apology.)

However, in LFP, she jumps all over Shep about saving a few who are like her family. . .but, uh, she was supposed to be all "familyish" with the Genii as well. Uneven characterization = poor writing.

It would be interesting to see Teyla and Weir having conversations about Teyla experiences with the team off world. Have them discussing what Teyla does wrong and why, and explaining to her why our team has to do things a certain way. It would go a long way to understanding both women better if TPTB would actually show both of them working to close the gap between their two civilizations.

[Whistler84]

Okay. I have to disagree with some things said here, and I hope I don't get gutted for it. Here goes: I seem to be one of the few here that actually likes Teyla, and I want to take a moment to nitpick in defense of her. First off, from my previous post, you guys should know I don't like Shelya. I hate the idea. I don't see the romantic connection at all. However, that is not to say that I do not see *any* connection between them. John and Teyla do have a friendship - a strong friendship. It's almost like Carter and Daniel.

And while I do see A LOT of the points made against her as valid - i.e. being defined by a man, and her under-developmental issues, I have to argue against some other points. She is not, in my opinion, flimsy or weak-minded or anything of the sort. She does not flip-flop on her ideals or in her actions. I see her as a strong character with a firm set of values and beliefs. She has my respect for that. Yes, she’s underdeveloped, but give her time. I think we’ll see her grow into a potentially strong and admirable character. Does anybody actually believe the writers won’t take that time in the upcoming seasons? It’s a matter of when - not if - her character gets developed properly.

I've also seen posts that say her treatment of Sheppard in LFP is disrespectful. I can see your point, kinda, but still I am going to respectfully disagree. I agreed with Teyla in this episode. She was trying to save people's life, and it seemed that Sheppard’s attitude was that he almost couldn't be bothered with it. I love Sheppard (madly in love, in fact), but he acted a little too unsympathetic (for my taste) to a world that was about to be butchered by the Wraith. Teyla's line of "Too much, I fear" was well-deserved. I understand the time-constraint, but coming from Teyla's POV, in which she's lived a horrific life of wraith-cullings, I can see how saving the lives of a few people is worth fighting for. And especially worth arguing for, even if it is with a hotty Sheppard. Sheppard is not always going to be correct, and sometimes he needs to be told so. Is that disrespect? We don’t call it that when Weir does it. We don’t call it that when Rodney does it. In fact, we often applaud them for standing up against him . . . but when Teyla does it, she's being disrespectful?? I just don't see that.

My .02 cents, anyway.

[FoolishPleasure]

I've also seen posts that say her treatment of Sheppard in LFP is disrespectful. I can see your point, kinda, but still I am going to respectfully disagree. I agreed with Teyla in this episode. She was trying to save people's life, and it seemed that Sheppard’s attitude was that he almost couldn't be bothered with it. I love Sheppard (madly in love, in fact), but he acted a little too unsympathetic (for my taste) to a world that was about to be butchered by the Wraith. Teyla's line of "Too much, I fear" was well-deserved. I understand the time-constraint, but coming from Teyla's POV, in which she's lived a horrific life of wraith-cullings, I can see how saving the lives of a few people is worth fighting for. And especially worth arguing for, even if it is with a hotty Sheppard. Sheppard is not always going to be correct, and sometimes he needs to be told so. Is that disrespect? We don’t call it that when Weir does it. We don’t call it that when Rodney does it. In fact, we often applaud them for standing up against him . . . but when Teyla does it, she's being disrespectful?? I just don't see that.

We don't ding folks for their opinions. Want a mint?

Seriously. . In LFP Weir gave Shep and Teyla ORDERS to not engage - to get intel on the Wraith fleet and get back to Atlantis asap. Going back for Teyla's friends jeopardized EVERYONE in Atlantis, not to mention all of Teyla's people. Teyla, as a leader, should have known that. Her whining about saving a few people was very immature, IMO.

Sheppard is a military man and he understands that you can't save everyone in war. You have to get your intel back to HQ or the entire war could be lost. The military does like to stress "leave no man behind". .but that does NOT apply to civilians. A good soldier knows that you cannot save everyone, and sometimes you can't even save one person. That's just a fact of war.

Also, Sheppard HAS been on the hot seat with Weir. Remember - Weir is in charge, everyone in Atlantis is HER responsibility, and she is the one to put folks in their place. And Weir has cut Rodney down to size as well at times.

[Melyanna]

Whistler, you make some good points, and certainly no one here is going to belittle you for it. But LFP always brings up good conversation in this group, so I hope you don't mind if I address some of your points.

I do feel like Teyla was inconsistently written, especially early in the season. Once the decision was made to scrap Shep/Teyla, the writers had kind of backed themselves into a corner. The character breakdown was heavily focused on the romance angle, so deciding not to pursue that in the first season left them with a character without much purpose. She's supposed to be a leader, but a leader has to have a people to lead. The writers did themselves a real disservice by getting rid of the Athosians so early in the season. I was actually interested in Teyla during Suspicion because she had to balance her loyalties, but they dropped that very quickly. So there went the other part of her character. Because of that, it seemed like the writers were really unsure of how she fit into the show.

FP makes a good point about Underground. She did leave Sora's father for dead, which seems pretty inconsistent with her actions in LFP. I'm not sure how to address that, really. The surroundings were pretty horrifying, though, so I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt there.

But the fundamental problem in LFP isn't so much her opinion on the matter. What she did was understandable; how she did it wasn't. My first objection was her going on the mission at all. She should have known that there was a timing issue, and if she couldn't have stood by and let something terrible happen for the good of the whole, then she shouldn't have gone. She should have avoided the temptation.

My second problem was that she didn't talk to Sheppard about offering to help the people before actually offering. Had she told Sheppard ahead of time that she wanted to offer help to a family friend, Sheppard probably would have told her the same thing — if they had time — but wouldn't have been put on the defensive by being surprised by it.

Teyla's background here is interesting and definitely worth consideration, and also what causes the most trouble in the episode. Both she and Sheppard have a leave-no-man-behind attitude, but Sheppard's seems to have a limit. He weighed the lives of twenty against potentially the lives of billions in the Milky Way and made a choice. It wasn't easy for him; he didn't want to leave anyone. You could see that throughout the episode. But getting the intelligence back to Atlantis so it could be sent on to Earth was critical. It's one of the few times in the season that Sheppard actually demonstrated foresight. If he were to die trying to save a handful of people, that could have left Earth and the rest of the Milky Way exposed to the Wraith.

It's not an easy thing, and I'm not saying Teyla was wrong in wanting to help her friends. But you also have to consider that she was making a choice to save some over others. She only invited her father's friend and his family, so where did that leave the rest of the planet's inhabitants?

And her methods were very disrespectful. The suggestion that he would leave her behind on a planet during a culling was just cruel. Rodney talks back to Sheppard, yes, but he seems to be the chief science advisor in the expedition, which, like chief medical officer, would place him around the same level as John. In the field, John has seniority, but Rodney's position gives him more weight than Teyla.

It's a fundamental issue of command, really. If an officer sends his subordinate to the front lines, the subordinate can't think it's because he was trying to undermine the officer's authority on the day before.