Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Lady Lethe]

It's been a while since the heat from HZ reared it's ugly head. Muahahahaha... It makes me feel evil that I like to watch them fight. Is that wrong?

Nah, much as I love how easy-going and agreeable Elizabeth and John are with each other

Spoiler:

I mean, that scene in Misbegotten where John's telling Woolsey off and says, "What do you want me to say? I supported Elizabeth's decision..." John's so furious that this bureaucrat would dare to question any decision his Elizabeth made that he's practically spitting nails. One ancient warship lost in failed alliance with Wraith? $1,000,000,000's; using Carson's bug-be-gone to turn the Wraith into humans? $100,000's; John defending Lizzie's honor? Priceless.

I also enjoy their little disagreements, only because there are sparks flying everywhere! (pun intended)

Spoiler:

I loved the scene in Irresistable when Elizabeth is all drugged out of her mind and wants to send a team to check out the planet that lecherous Lucius says has a 'gate, and John gets right up in her face and lets her know in no uncertain terms that no one is going through the stargate while he's the city's military leader. Whew! I'm guessing the tension in there was thick enough to cut with a knife, and you could probably power up Atlantis' shield with the amount of electricity that was building up between them.

[Vala_Black]

Are you good with a a media maker?.....lol.

lol, um.. im ok. if uve seen my other vids... i can do it if u want? probs wont be finished till like sunday cos im doin exams at the moment but it would be a good outlet for stress

haha kewl, i just realised i have hit 100 posts. now im a jaffa warrior

[lizzyana]

super caps, Sallylizzie, and Luz, I adore the look of Elisabeth one caps.

[Southern Red]

Nah, much as I love how easy-going and agreeable Elizabeth and John are with each other

Spoiler:

I mean, that scene in Misbegotten where John's telling Woolsey off and says, "What do you want me to say? I supported Elizabeth's decision..." John's so furious that this bureaucrat would dare to question any decision his Elizabeth made that he's practically spitting nails. One ancient warship lost in failed alliance with Wraith? $1,000,000,000's; using Carson's bug-be-gone to turn the Wraith into humans? $100,000's; John defending Lizzie's honor? Priceless.

I also enjoy their little disagreements, only because there are sparks flying everywhere! (pun intended)

Spoiler:

I loved the scene in Irresistable when Elizabeth is all drugged out of her mind and wants to send a team to check out the planet that lecherous Lucius says has a 'gate, and John gets right up in her face and lets her know in no uncertain terms that no one is going through the stargate while he's the city's military leader. Whew! I'm guessing the tension in there was thick enough to cut with a knife, and you could probably power up Atlantis' shield with the amount of electricity that was building up between them.

That's exactly the kind of scene I was thinking about. That scene in Irresistible was one of the best so far of S3.

Spoiler:

When he walks up, taps his fingers on the console and says "Doctor Weir", you just get tingles in all your shippy parts because you know something good is coming. And I also liked the way she kept looking at him. Even drugged out of her mind and lacking her usual objectivity, she was still totally aware of how he was acting and feeling. Priceless little moments. Love 'em. More please. I'm getting tired of this distance between them. Except for the few really great little moments in The Return Pt. 1, their former closeness has been sadly lacking lately. I hope the second half of S3 changes that.

You know it is painful to watch these writers struggle to fix this show. In a way they have hit the giant red button and sent everybody back to The Rising or at least most of S1. General spoilers for S3. Nothing specific.

Spoiler:

They've got stoic, action John who will angst at the drop of a hat but keep his feelings bottled up. Motormouth, science geek Rodney who's totally incompetent with a weapon who seems to mostly be there for comic relief. Zenned out all wise and powerful Teyla, who can solve any problem, comfort her teammates, provide spiritual and emotional guidance, and look hot doing it. And large and in charge Elizabeth who is mostly in the background when not giving orders, looking worried and defending herself. We got a lot of what we, not just the Sparky advocates but everybody, wished for, but I think it was at the expense in some cases of the close relationship of J and E. Now maybe they have a plan. *snort* And, yes, I know that showing close team bonding was the plan for S3. And maybe I'm just mad that Eliz wasn't more a part of that. And maybe I'll be happy with the second half. After all in the John speech to Teyla that everybody raves over, he did mention Elizabeth second as someone he'd do anything for. Of course, TRW took care of that, so now do they think they can ignore her for the rest of the season? Grrr. I want more Sparky, dammit.

[hopalong]

Spoiler:

Rodney shifts in his seat, supressing a long-suffering sigh.

(thinking): They're at it again...

[Luz]

Spoiler:

I'm getting tired of this distance between them. Except for the few really great little moments in The Return Pt. 1, their former closeness has been sadly lacking lately. I hope the second half of S3 changes that.

We all have our own ways in which we view this ship, and what we expect of said ship, that said.

Spoiler:

I don't see the distance you're talking about, again, we all have different expectations on ship, I've gotten the kind of things I love from a ship. I like angst, whumping, tension, and I've gotten that in each episode, so I have to say that I've loved what we've gotten this season, and to me it's been incredibly shippy.
I don't see any lack of closeness, if anything to me they've acted even more comfortable with each other, more in synchrony, but again, that might be just because the way the writers have gone about with S/W in season 3 is exactly what I like a ship to be on a show, I want it to be there, but unobtrusive.

[SallyLizzie]

Imo, they're closer than they ever have been. It just might not be as obvious compared to other seasons because the whole group have been exhibited as being close so there's an equal balance of friendship across the board.

[suehsi]

It's time, I think, to start pounding away at reminding TPTB that we are large and loud and let them know what we would like in S4. I'll start with these:

1. More interaction between John and Elizabeth
2. More Elizabeth going off world with John's team
3. John and Elizabeth in trouble. Together. Alone.
4. Disagreement between John and Elizabeth resulting in a knock down, drag out, gloves off, blood pumping argument.
5. John telling her something about his past. And vice versa.

Just a start. I don't want much.

honestly, i love your points. couldnt agree more with you ^________^ the best one is nr. 3 - but it would be better if you mix 3 with 4 and 5 *dreaming* that would be a prefect episode

[SGLAB]

Imo, they're closer than they ever have been. It just might not be as obvious compared to other seasons because the whole group have been exhibited as being close so there's an equal balance of friendship across the board.

Well, it's been awhile since I posted in this thread but, finally decided to come back and de-lurk. Another thread pulled me back a few minutes ago so I figured what the heck.

ITA with what you've said here Sally. It's really nice to see everyone connecting. Not just the same two or three together. Just because I like the idea of John and Elizabeth paired together in a romantic relationship doesn't mean I don't want them to have other types of relationships with the others. In the first couple of seasons of SG-1 it seemed to be all about the Jack, Daniel friendship. Finally they started to spread it around a bit around s3-4.

I love the subtle moments with them. I think that's what attracted me to this pair more than anything. That screencap from Before I Sleep someone posted recently shows one of my favorite scenes with them. They're standing together looking at the sleeping 10,000 yr old Weir and the concern for what this must be doing to Elizabeth from John is just wonderful. It's subtle, but comes through so well.

Of course I've become a multi-shipper/slasher so I like the way things are.

[Southern Red]

Imo, they're closer than they ever have been. It just might not be as obvious compared to other seasons because the whole group have been exhibited as being close so there's an equal balance of friendship across the board.

Interesting that my opinion here seems to be in a minority. I thought it might be. Part of the reason why I've kept quiet. I hope my perception is wrong. I pray that it is. I guess the Sheyla anvils flying at my head distracted me. Unlike many of you, I am not a multiple shipper, at least with John and Elizabeth. I've been a happily married lady for a realllly long time and get very impatient with all this messing around and teasing. They belong together IMHO. Let's get about the business of making it so. I enjoy the little moments immensely but need more episodes like TRW.

Now for the sake of argument because I love it so much, arguing that is let's look at Return 1 as an example of how I see a distance.

Spoiler:

I think John should have gone to see her. It's not made clear that he had tried to call her, and he's distracted when Rodney is talking about her on the phone. On the one hand he breaks isolation to try and save her, yet can't pick up the dang phone and call the woman. IMHO that indicates John's tendency to be extremely adaptable. He reacted to being back on Earth the same way he did in Epiphany to being cut off from the team. He settled in to make the best of it and started to distance himself from his former life. Same with Antarctica. Rodney, of course, won't stop calling him. John hurries him along and almost hangs up on him. I wonder why he agreed to the dinner. Is John Sheppard really this easily manipulated? His past history with women tells me maybe so, yet when given a chance to storm the castle and take back their home, he jumps at the chance. The man is a mystery. Being written by committee is not helping either.

Sorry to be contrary. I was hoping to come home with a new perspective. *goes off to watch videos for a new lease on Sparky*

[Ruined_puzzle]

I agree with you SR about the lack of closeness this season between John/Elizabeth. I think it has to do with tptb focusing on the team dynamic. I mean for all we know John/Elizabeth could be having eyesex and convesations offscreen, I mean they haven't said that anything has changed between them. But offscreen doesn't count. Show me damn it. Besides aren't we suppose to take the whole the team is hanging out together as something that has been happening since the beginning but the writers never bothered to show. At least that's how I see it.

[Southern Red]

I agree with you SR about the lack of closeness this season between John/Elizabeth. I think it has to do with tptb focusing on the team dynamic. I mean for all we know John/Elizabeth could be having eyesex and convesations offscreen, I mean they haven't said that anything has changed between them. But offscreen doesn't count. Show me damn it. Besides aren't we suppose to take the whole the team is hanging out together as something that has been happening since the beginning but the writers never bothered to show. At least that's how I see it.

And once again someone expresses my own thoughts better than I can. Thanks RP. That must be the root of my dissatisfaction. This subtextual offscreen stuff doesn't cut it with me. I like the new team moments, but did any of us really think these people have lived in each others' pockets for nearly 3 years and haven't had any of those close bonding moments? I know there's a group that likes to give evidence that John and Rodney are not friends, but that's just silly. Same with any other pair you can name. Now right at this point in time

Spoiler:

I've had enough touchy feely "I love you man" moments. Just shoot something. I want to see good stories with a plot. But I'm afraid they're going to spend the rest of the season having everybody risk their life to save everybody else. This is a common complaint with all TV. They do a good thing to death. I don't even want to see John save Elizabeth every week. Now I'd love to see her save him at least once. LOL. Now that they've dropped the Carson/Cadman storyline, we officially have no romance. Looks like the noromos win this season. Maybe Ronon will get his butt in gear and make a move on Teyla before that Marine does. Hee.

[Vixen]

Sorry to be contrary. I was hoping to come home with a new perspective. *goes off to watch videos for a new lease on Sparky*

No need to appologize SR Different takes and opinions are what make this thread interesting. Imagine how it might be if everyone had the same view on everything J/E. Wouldn't be really fun, would it?

Now for the sake of argument because I love it so much, arguing that is let's look at Return 1 as an example of how I see a distance.

Spoiler:

I think John should have gone to see her.

Spoiler:

Imagine the state of this thread if he had gone to see her But I didn't have a problem with it. Yes, it would've made sense because of their closness and all, but it was nice to see Carson. Maybe tptb just figured the J/E fans would squee their hearts out over the scene and make the forum (and a lot of eardrums) explode. Wasn't there a mention here long ago that there was supposed to be a hug between Teyla and Carson in Critical Mass but tptb apparently dropped it fearing fans might take it as shippy? 'Cause look what the hug in TS3 did. It probably, really, wasn't supposed to be shippy. Close friends are glad the other is alive and hug. Nothing big (depending, of course, from which pov heh). And look at the reaction over the dinner scene? Tptb (or at least the way I saw it) just wanted to give a nice reunion between the 4, just friends getting together after a long time. But the J/E fans went mad! In a cute way
And Carson mentions how others have met her, so why not assume John had as well?

Spoiler:

It's not made clear that he had tried to call her, and he's distracted when Rodney is talking about her on the phone. On the one hand he breaks isolation to try and save her, yet can't pick up the dang phone and call the woman. IMHO that indicates John's tendency to be extremely adaptable. He reacted to being back on Earth the same way he did in Epiphany to being cut off from the team. He settled in to make the best of it and started to distance himself from his former life. Same with Antarctica. Rodney, of course, won't stop calling him. John hurries him along and almost hangs up on him. I wonder why he agreed to the dinner. Is John Sheppard really this easily manipulated? His past history with women tells me maybe so, yet when given a chance to storm the castle and take back their home, he jumps at the chance. The man is a mystery. Being written by committee is not helping either.

Spoiler:

Heh, I liked how he hung up on him (sensing maybe that Rodney just wouldn't stop talking), and they were going to meet later anyway. Why wouldn't he agree on the dinner thing? Rodney is one of those people John considers as 'family'.

[Luz]

Sorry to be contrary. I was hoping to come home with a new perspective. *goes off to watch videos for a new lease on Sparky*

It's your opinion and you have all the right in the world to state it, this is the S/W thread, so there is no better place to talk about this.
I'm just extremely happy with not only the S/W ship, but all the interactions in the show so far, and can be very enthusiastic about it. But you shouldn't feel like you cannot voice your opinion just because you think you're in the minority, for all you know there could be other people who are not so happy with the way things are going, but haven't dared to voice their opinions either.

[Gate gal]

Imo, they're closer than they ever have been. It just might not be as obvious compared to other seasons because the whole group have been exhibited as being close so there's an equal balance of friendship across the board.

I agree with you completely. I'm glad the whole crew is getting closer and forming relationships, but I see John and Elizabeth's relationship growing in a different way than just friendly. I mean remember

Spoiler:

defending my honor moment.

We wouldn't have seen that a year ago, not to that level anyway.