Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[A.L.]

Reading that snippet, I'm not sure unrequited was the word they meant. "Unrequited heat" doesn't make any sense at all, in any context.

I agree. The term is a little contradictory, imo. But I think I understand what they might be trying to say. When I see Shep and Weir together, I see Elizabeth who seems more aware of this connection and Shep who seems less aware. At least conciously. I believe they are in love with each other and it's only a matter of time but as it stands right now (to my eyes at least) Elizabeth knows she's in love with him but if asked would openly deny it, and Sheppard doesn't yet know he's in love with her but once he comes to that conclusion himself, he'll be hard pressed to hide it. Not that he's doing a very good job right now.

Thanks just how I see the two of them so while the term "unrequited heat" doesn't make sense, I think I can kind of see what they were trying to say.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

AL
PS Mel! Love the new sig!

[A.L.]

*twirls in*

Thanks for all the birthday wishes!

I enjoyed M&MM, though I have to say

Spoiler:

it's a good thing Rodney didn't steal the mint jar from Weir's desk. Oo, there'd have been hell to pay when John found out

I said that exact thing to my sis when it happened.

AL

[Southern Red]

Don't you just love how

Spoiler:

It was him that she saw?, it was him helping her, guiding her, she knew it was him, she was actually seeing him, not anybody else. John helping Elizabeth, Elizabeth trusting John.

OMG, now you've got me all teared up. As for TRW

Spoiler:

the look on his face at any given time in that one just says it all to me. The man was absolutely devastated at the thought of losing her. He lost all ability to be rational when it came to his own safety, but while he was standing there never taking his eyes from her there's a moment when Carson and Rodney are talking about how she can probably hear them that John tilts his head toward them, and you just know that he's thinking about talking to her. Then he does and when watching this I couldn't help but wonder just why he looked around to be sure they were alone. Is he that self conscious? Or did he just want to say stuff to her from the heart and didn't want company? Hmm? Also you just know that his Mensa mind is working, working all the time trying desperately to come up with a way to help her, and when he gets the last bit of info he needs from what the docs say, he comes up with his idea. Carson, Lord love him, just keeps giving up, and even Rodney is running out of ideas, but John just never gives up. Then when it looks like it's too late, he does the only thing he can think of which is to use his will to reinforce hers so she can save herself, never thinking about how it may impact on his own safety. Now if that's not a man who has deep feelings for a woman, I don't know what is. Whew! My work here is done.

And that is my stream of consciousness shipper analysis of the essential John Sheppard as relates to TRW. I also have to say that I'm upset that TRW didn't get better fan ratings. I think I might smell a rat. Or two.

[A.L.]

Did you also pick up on how they completely threw canon out of the window with

Spoiler:

not making any reference to the temporal entropic cascade failure in M&MM? *slaps whoever forgot or decided not to to write that in*

Totally noticed. Was a bit annoyed by it but maybe they got tired of waisting story time on it since they did it a million and one times in SG-1. But then again, continuity is continuity and you loose the pull you have on an audience during an epi when you cut such HUGE continuity.

AL

[Trialia]

Totally noticed. Was a bit annoyed by it but maybe they got tired of waisting story time on it since they did it a million and one times in SG-1. But then again, continuity is continuity and you loose the pull you have on an audience during an epi when you cut such HUGE continuity.

AL

Exactly. So what if they see it as wasting story time? It wouldn't have taken more than a line to make reference to it, and continuity is important.

[CamandVala]

Don't you just love how

Spoiler:

It was him that she saw?, it was him helping her, guiding her, she knew it was him, she was actually seeing him, not anybody else. John helping Elizabeth, Elizabeth trusting John.

I haven't seen the episode yet (my grandma tapes them for me, but she made a mistake so instead of getting 6 hours of Stargate, I got six hours of That 70's show....yuck!)...but anyway

Spoiler:

SSSSSSSSSSSSQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQQUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE EEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right, I am definitely a shipper .

[Melyanna]

I agree. The term is a little contradictory, imo. But I think I understand what they might be trying to say. When I see Shep and Weir together, I see Elizabeth who seems more aware of this connection and Shep who seems less aware. At least conciously. I believe they are in love with each other and it's only a matter of time but as it stands right now (to my eyes at least) Elizabeth knows she's in love with him but if asked would openly deny it, and Sheppard doesn't yet know he's in love with her but once he comes to that conclusion himself, he'll be hard pressed to hide it. Not that he's doing a very good job right now.

Thanks just how I see the two of them so while the term "unrequited heat" doesn't make sense, I think I can kind of see what they were trying to say.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

AL
PS Mel! Love the new sig!

I'm not sure I'd see either of them knowing they're in love. I think they're both aware that they're very close to each other, but I wouldn't say that either of them is conscious of feelings beyond deep friendship.

And the sig isn't quite new. I had to take it down earlier this year because of minor spoiler issues, and I was rather unhappy about that. But we're (almost) to syndication, so I think it's safe now.

[RoryJ]

Totally noticed. Was a bit annoyed by it but maybe they got tired of waisting story time on it since they did it a million and one times in SG-1. But then again, continuity is continuity and you loose the pull you have on an audience during an epi when you cut such HUGE continuity.

AL

Off topic for M&MM:

Spoiler:

There's actually a discussion on this in the season three thread, but the conclusion was that it took 48 hours for AU Sam to feel the effects of entropic cascade failure, and AU Rodney wasn't in Atlantis for that long for it to happen.

[Trialia]

Off topic for M&MM:

Spoiler:

There's actually a discussion on this in the season three thread, but the conclusion was that it took 48 hours for AU Sam to feel the effects of entropic cascade failure, and AU Rodney wasn't in Atlantis for that long for it to happen.

Spoiler:

Even so, the Atlantis team were talking about Rod possibly staying in their reality indefinitely, which means that they clearly didn't even consider the possibility of TECF.

[firedust22]

I agree. The term is a little contradictory, imo. But I think I understand what they might be trying to say. When I see Shep and Weir together, I see Elizabeth who seems more aware of this connection and Shep who seems less aware. At least conciously. I believe they are in love with each other and it's only a matter of time but as it stands right now (to my eyes at least) Elizabeth knows she's in love with him but if asked would openly deny it, and Sheppard doesn't yet know he's in love with her but once he comes to that conclusion himself, he'll be hard pressed to hide it. Not that he's doing a very good job right now.

Thanks just how I see the two of them so while the term "unrequited heat" doesn't make sense, I think I can kind of see what they were trying to say.

Does that make sense to anyone but me?

AL
PS Mel! Love the new sig!

Requite: to make a return or repayment for. Hmm...

Anyway, I think they are both aware of the fact that they share a strong bond. However, I don't think that either one of them would recognize it as love, even though they are pretty much made for each other. Elizabeth might suspect, but that's the thing, they are both insecure enough in that area (TRUE love, I mean) that they don't want to label it as such and then get hurt later on. And, to be honest, who can blame them? I would think that neither one of them wants to screw up what they have, anyway. For the sake of the city if not for their own sanity.

Shep probably seems less aware because he is unsure of what to do with all these emotions. Sounds like your typical guy. Elizabeth is very emotionally intelligent and mature, therefore may come across as more willing to deal with it.

I think they both know, subconciously, but simply don't know what to do next. Maybe Elizabeth is more of an old-fashioned kind of gal, waiting for the guy to make the first move. But John is purposefully overlooking this becasue he wouldn't know what to do anyway. He's too used to the Kirk routine, and doesn't know how to go about this the right way.

It's all about balance, really.

[firedust22]

I'm not sure I'd see either of them knowing they're in love. I think they're both aware that they're very close to each other, but I wouldn't say that either of them is conscious of feelings beyond deep friendship.

And the sig isn't quite new. I had to take it down earlier this year because of minor spoiler issues, and I was rather unhappy about that. But we're (almost) to syndication, so I think it's safe now.

Oh hey i remember seeing it! I wondered where it had disappeared to... YAY I'm glad it's back!!

I can't WAIT till I finally get to see Seige III!!! WOOHOO!

[RoryJ]

Anyway, I think they are both aware of the fact that they share a strong bond. However, I don't think that either one of them would recognize it as love, even though they are pretty much made for each other. Elizabeth might suspect, but that's the thing, they are both insecure enough in that area (TRUE love, I mean) that they don't want to label it as such and then get hurt later on. And, to be honest, who can blame them? I would think that neither one of them wants to screw up what they have, anyway. For the sake of the city if not for their own sanity.

Shep probably seems less aware because he is unsure of what to do with all these emotions. Sounds like your typical guy. Elizabeth is very emotionally intelligent and mature, therefore may come across as more willing to deal with it.

I think they both know, subconciously, but simply don't know what to do next. Maybe Elizabeth is more of an old-fashioned kind of gal, waiting for the guy to make the first move. But John is purposefully overlooking this becasue he wouldn't know what to do anyway. He's too used to the Kirk routine, and doesn't know how to go about this the right way.

It's all about balance, really.

That is a really good insight into where they are in the relationship. I sort of think that Elizabeth is very aware that she feels for him a great deal more than everyone else. I'm reminded of her reactions in Conversion, The Hive, and TLG:

Spoiler:

When Caldwell made his "pretty close" comment, she could tell just like the audience could that he was digging for an emotional reaction from her. The way she froze before turning around and the way she carefully worded her response said to me that she knew Caldwell suspected more and that she didn't want to give something away.

Also, at the very end of The Hive when Chuck said that there was nothing left to search for, her face just seemed to be registering complete shock at the realization that she wouldn't be seeing him again. The loss of the others affected her too, of course, but we know that of the group, John was the one she's been seen talking to and connecting with most.

As for TLG, there's the point that's been brought up numerous time that Phoebus knew from being inside Elizabeth's mind that John would go along with the plan. Elizabeth must be consciously aware of a connection between them that's stronger than her and anyone else, or Phoebus wouldn't have gotten access to that information. And at the very end of the episode after Caldwell teased them, she sinks so low in the bed and looks absolutely mortified from the embarassment. You only blush that bad when someone calls you on the truth: that kiss affected her because it brought her so physically close to a man that means a great deal to her.

That was a long-winded look at how I think Elizabeth sees her own feelings. As for John, I do think that he's aware of feelings for her. Seige III was enough to open him up to that realization. Look at how how his body language is so boastful around her in moments like the coffee scene in Intruder or in the observation room in McKay and Mrs. Miller. It's cute, but it's also interesting to see. Also, in TRW

Spoiler:

he was with her the entire time, even when there were points when the others were no longer in the room. Seeing him sit in the corner, just watching her and asking if she was aware was so sweet. And he felt the need to keep talking to her, and to burst in there and physically let her know that he was beside her - that he was with her.

I think he's aware of his feelings, just like Elizabeth is. The difference is that I think Elizabeth can see the outside repurcussions of that and it makes her fear a possible relationship. John just seems too out of touch the effect of emotions to see anything but his own internal insecurities and incompetencies. JF mentioned that he plays John in such a way as to show that despite being a tease and a flirt, he really is confusedand uncomfortable with serious relationships with women. That said, I would think it's Elizabeth that would make a careful, planned out first move. However, I think it's very possible for John to make a first move based on the heat of the moment or at a highly emotional time before he has a chance to question his actions.

Off topic again:

Spoiler:

Even so, the Atlantis team were talking about Rod possibly staying in their reality indefinitely, which means that they clearly didn't even consider the possibility of TECF.

Ah, good point.

[Luz]

I think they're both aware that they're very close to each other, but I wouldn't say that either of them is conscious of feelings beyond deep friendship.

John did seem

Spoiler:

to be taken aback when Elizabeth called him on his anger towards Woolsey, and when Niam attacked Elizabeth John's expression was like "WTF!?". It was striking really to see him so sort of at a loss, did you hear how he growled when he charged against Niam?, and then his soft, concerned tone when he asked her "are you okay?", that look in his eyes when he turns to the controls. I've often said and I say it again, it's all in Sheppard's eyes, that look in Progeny I don't know how explain it, concern?, caring?, something else?.
And with Elizabeth we've had many instances where we've seen just how much she cares about him, John is more a man of action so we see how much he cares because he always has to do something, shoot someone, shove someone.

So yeah ITA, the feelings are there, and while they try to reach the surface every once in a while, I don't think either of them are quite aware of them (for now).

[Ruined_puzzle]

Aww Poor John in Progeny, pics under spoiler tags

Spoiler:

I love the worry lines

His so in love and doesn't even know it.

[Bama]

What's the over/under odds of the mid-season two parter being heavily Sparky focused?

And is it just me or is everyone else way ready for just the two of them to be captured together? Talk about your yummy drama for them personally and professionally and it would allow us to see how the rest of the bunch would function without them at the helm. Yep, it's due.