Announcement

**Royal_Nonesuch** · 19 December 2005, 07:12 AM

Quick question: which ep will be airing tonight? There's been some fabulous discussion the past fewpages, but I really can't add anything atthe moment. I'm way too tired from staying up watching a cheap Hallmark Christmas movie--I have no idea why, so I won't even attempt to make an excuse lol.

One thing I wanted to mention. I was able to catch part of Hide and Seek in syndication. It was very interesting to see how Weir and Sheppard's friendship grew. I read a couple posts saying that Weir and Sheppard's relaitonship jumped form point A to point D in S2--I don't agree. I think they have trusted one another from the beginning and have been building that trust from the beginning. I liked how Sheppard backed up Liz when Teyla was asking if Weir trusted the Athosians.

I better get back to wrapping Christmas presents!

Later all--I hope we'll get some good Sparky spoilers,

Royal

**Southern Red** · 19 December 2005, 07:13 AM

Originally posted by Erised

Speaking of random shippy moments

Spoiler:

Well duh. I've just realized what your name really is. Never said I wasn't slow.
Anyhow, so true. In Condemned

Spoiler:

This morning while putting on my exercise shoes I had an epiphany. *giving everybody time to strap themselves in*. Okay. I haven't worked it all out yet, but John discards women. Help me think it through.
1. Flirting is as natural as breathing to him. Nobody female escapes.
2. They almost always respond.

Spoiler:

3. In Rising, a pretty girl stands up, looks him up and down like a prize stallion, time to flirt. Sumner see it, thinks they can use his skill at it, leaves him to it.
4. He gets to know Teyla over months, likes and trusts her, but for some reason never makes a move on her. The moment passes or the feelings change? Her people seem reserved. I wish we knew more about their courtship rituals. Maybe he backed off because she was so formal with him. Either way, he stops flirting with her.
5. Chyla: flirt, she responds, he acts, gone, he forgets her. Not literally, but emotionally.
6. Epiphany:

Spoiler:

7. The Tower:

Spoiler:

8. Now, Elizabeth. No initial flirting. He respected her, recognized her as the leader, got to know her as such and felt comfortable arguing on an equal level with her. Gradually as their friendship progressed he began to flirt in a friendly way. Home, BIS, Intruder and I hear in some I haven't seen. Then became protective of her. Again BIS, the Eye, others in second half of S2. He is not treating her the same way as any of the others including Teyla. I see Conversion

Spoiler:

Why in TLB

Spoiler:

He hasn't discarded Teyla as such, but he has dropped all romantic interest in her. Yes, he cares what happens to her, but empirical evidence shows he has no intention of becoming romantically involved with her.

With Elizabeth I see an actual relationship building, slowly, like molasses in the winter. TLG is going to be fun, but the really crucial episodes will be the ones following. Hopefully, pigs will fly, and we'll get some actual follow through.

**smallgirl** · 19 December 2005, 07:14 AM

Originally posted by Bama

Now it seems they've moved on to 'Weir has more chemistry with Caldwell'

That just cracks me up. If chemistry is defined by one person not really trusting or respecting the other, then yes Weir and Caldwell are perfect for one another. I love a bit of conflict and clashing with my ships, probably why Hot Zone was the ep that really sold me on Sparky but the Weir/Caldwell idea is just plain desperate. You could convince me of McWeir or even Weir/Ronon or Weir/Zelenka before Weir/Caldwell because at least she appears to like them. The biggest difference between the Weir/Sheppard conflict in Hot Zone and all the occasions when Weir and Caldwell have clashed is that in Hot Zone, Weir cared about Sheppard's insubordination because she wanted him to trust her leadership whereas I get the impression that she isn't bothered how Caldwell views her as long as he accepts her authority. Sometimes I find Weir's treatment of Caldwell a bit harsh but the big impression I get is that simply doesn't trust him. Add to the fact that a large part of their conflict has come about because Weir is defending Sheppard and that pretty much kills the Weir/Caldwell dead. Yeah, she has chemistry with a man that she is constantly putting in his place whilst showing her faith in and committment to another man.

As for the idea that it is just from Weir's side. Well, even if that was true, at least we could claim to have one half of the ship on board. As for Sheppard and Teyla I can't find much evidence of interest from either party. Teyla never looks at Sheppard the way Weir does and he doesn't pay her much attention either, even when she's wearing skimpy clothing. In Home and LFP when they spent the most time, they have ever, just with one another, all he ever looked was distracted in the first instance and annoyed and weary in the second.

I can play devil's advocate and convince myself that Weir/Sheppard is just all in my mind but I couldn't even begin to convince myself of any other pairing except for Ronon/Teyla.

**Erised** · 19 December 2005, 07:16 AM

Originally posted by Royal_Nonesuch

Quick question: which ep will be airing tonight? There's been some fabulous discussion the past fewpages, but I really can't add anything atthe moment. I'm way too tired from staying up watching a cheap Hallmark Christmas movie--I have no idea why, so I won't even attempt to make an excuse lol.

One thing I wanted to mention. I was able to catch part of Hide and Seek in syndication. It was very interesting to see how Weir and Sheppard's friendship grew. I read a couple posts saying that Weir and Sheppard's relaitonship jumped form point A to point D in S2--I don't agree. I think they have trusted one another from the beginning and have been building that trust from the beginning. I liked how Sheppard backed up Liz when Teyla was asking if Weir trusted the Athosians.

I better get back to wrapping Christmas presents!

Later all--I hope we'll get some good Sparky spoilers,

Royal

"The Tower" is on tonight, and looking at the spoilers, there is a shippy moment there, too.

**Erised** · 19 December 2005, 07:28 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red

epiphany. *giving everybody time to strap themselves in*. Okay. I haven't worked it all out yet, but John discards women. Help me think it through.
1. Flirting is as natural as breathing to him. Nobody female escapes.
2. They almost always respond.

Spoiler:

3. In Rising, a pretty girl stands up, looks him up and down like a prize stallion, time to flirt. Sumner see it, thinks they can use his skill at it, leaves him to it.
4. He gets to know Teyla over months, likes and trusts her, but for some reason never makes a move on her. The moment passes or the feelings change? Her people seem reserved. I wish we knew more about their courtship rituals. Maybe he backed off because she was so formal with him. Either way, he stops flirting with her.
5. Chyla: flirt, she responds, he acts, gone, he forgets her. Not literally, but emotionally.
6. Epiphany:

Spoiler:

7. The Tower:

Spoiler:

8. Now, Elizabeth. No initial flirting. He respected her, recognized her as the leader, got to know her as such and felt comfortable arguing on an equal level with her. Gradually as their friendship progressed he began to flirt in a friendly way. Home, BIS, Intruder and I hear in some I haven't seen. Then became protective of her. Again BIS, the Eye, others in second half of S2. He is not treating her the same way as any of the others including Teyla. I see Conversion

Spoiler:

Why in TLB

Spoiler:

He hasn't discarded Teyla as such, but he has dropped all romantic interest in her. Yes, he cares what happens to her, but empirical evidence shows he has no intention of becoming romantically involved with her.

With Elizabeth I see an actual relationship building, slowly, like molasses in the winter. TLG is going to be fun, but the really crucial episodes will be the ones following. Hopefully, pigs will fly, and we'll get some actual follow through.

IMO, John has so many girlfriends probably because he's trying to keep his mind away from Elizabeth? He knows it wouldn't be too approproate if him and Liz were dating. All these random girlfriends for a week keep his mind off Elizabeth for awhile. IMO though

Of course, that's not the only reason. He wants to have fun with girls. What guys would say no to girls that are totally all over them? So far they have been

John respects Teyla and thinks of her as a sister, I think

He would protect her when needed, but I haven't seen any *real* shippy moments since the Rising pt.II head thingy.

**Bama** · 19 December 2005, 07:42 AM

Originally posted by Erised

IMO, John has so many girlfriends probably because he's trying to keep his mind away from Elizabeth? He knows it wouldn't be too approproate if him and Liz were dating. All these random girlfriends for a week keep his mind off Elizabeth for awhile. IMO though

Of course, that's not the only reason. He wants to have fun with girls. What guys would say no to girls that are totally all over them? So far they have been

John's flirting and kirkin is just him 'being an unattached male'. He knows good and well that he's 'not supposed' to have emotionally heavy feelings for Elizabeth Weir so what does he do? He acts as he always has and continues to have the interactions with females he has always had. But he's a mature man and eventually, he's going to stop-or events may force him to stop- and go, 'hey, this doesn't satisfy me as it did when I was younger...I'm bored of it and I know there's something 'more' with a woman because...'eureka! it's staring me in the face every flippin day!...Elizabeth...we need to talk about this!'

Seriously, I see his 'kirk' days being numbered as this ship goes on further.

BTW...excellent posts above guys. I'd rep some of you but the system likes me to spread my love...

**macktheknife** · 19 December 2005, 07:45 AM

Tower. Bathroom in Tower.

/simpsons reference.

EDIT - Whoops. I thought I refreshed, and that "What episode" question was still the last post. How wrong I was.

**Melyanna** · 19 December 2005, 07:48 AM

Originally posted by Royal_Nonesuch

Quick question: which ep will be airing tonight?

The Tower. Looks like it should be a good one,

Spoiler:

Originally posted by Royal_Nonesuch

I better get back to wrapping Christmas presents!

Oy, I should too. At least I've finished all the presents I was making and got all but one purchased. And my brother just offered to pick that up for me while he's out, so I guess all I've got left is to wrap stuff.

Originally posted by Royal_Nonesuch

Later all--I hope we'll get some good Sparky spoilers,

I have a good feeling about tonight's episode, and, well, my instinct with this show has rarely led me astray.

**macktheknife** · 19 December 2005, 07:49 AM

I'm not so sure about the tower, the short bit I read off GW, does'nt really fill me with confidence.

EDIT - Wooo, lizzy offworld. Things are looking up.

**Bama** · 19 December 2005, 08:06 AM

Originally posted by macktheknife

I'm not so sure about the tower, the short bit I read off GW, does'nt really fill me with confidence.

EDIT - Wooo, lizzy offworld. Things are looking up.

You guys can take this to the bank. It's just a matter of time before the antis come out yapping about Elizabeth going off-world too much. I think some of them are already beginning to feel as if she's infringing on 'team' territory such as it is. But my thinking is completely different on this. Yes, she's in charge of Atlantis and in season one, Atlantis was in constant peril and the world was 'new' and very unknown to them in operational systems and requirements etc so, it was natural that her emphasis and concentration would have to be on the 'setting-up' process more. Now, as we move along in season two and beyond, the world of Atlantis has been more streamlined. Elizabeth Weir wasn't sent to Atlantis to be a paperpusher. She's *not* an adminstrator by trade-she's a deal broker and a Political Science and Communications expert. Her expertise isn't in systems operations management-it's in negotiating treaties between parties and communicating with foreign entities. Elizabeth should have experts at systems operations and adminstration in abundance in Atlantis. She should be checking their progress and leaving them to it more unless there's a major problem. A great leader has to delegate properly.

I've said all along that she needed to be off-world a lot more. She should be brokering deals and diplomatically setting up treaties and negotiating for resources with potential allies and enemies in the Pegasus Galaxy and beyond. She should be making sure Atlantis is on the forefront of developing the galaxy and beyond into a force for good-and a powerful political force to be dealt with. She should always be looking for an edge and seeking new angles. I know that John and team can be sent out to 'explore' before hand but they aren't negotiators any more than Elizabeth is a soldier. Their job should be to secure and lay groundwork. I don't think the writers have done a good enough job yet developing this angle yet either. Hopefully, it appears this may be the way they're heading though.

**SGLAB** · 19 December 2005, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Southern Red

8. Now, Elizabeth. No initial flirting. He respected her, recognized her as the leader, got to know her as such and felt comfortable arguing on an equal level with her. Gradually as their friendship progressed he began to flirt in a friendly way. Home, BIS, Intruder and I hear in some I haven't seen. Then became protective of her. Again BIS, the Eye, others in second half of S2. He is not treating her the same way as any of the others including Teyla.

I just loved what you said here. This is what I think makes this relationship so interesting. It is so different from anything else we've seen with Shep. and another woman. You've put into words what my feelings are about these two.

Originally posted by Southern Red

With Elizabeth I see an actual relationship building, slowly, like molasses in the winter. TLG is going to be fun, but the really crucial episodes will be the ones following. Hopefully, pigs will fly, and we'll get some actual follow through.

I shall be watching for those flying pigs.

**Erised** · 19 December 2005, 08:11 AM

Bama,
if you ask me, Elizabeth haters will come up with anything they can to make her seem less of a character.

Anyway. This is totally cool that Liz gets to go off-world. This way she sees what is going on out there; therefore, it allows her to make more accurate decisions when problems occur.
And besides, like you said, it's her profession to negotiate with other coutries (er,... worlds in this case) and only by going on missions can she do it.

**SGLAB** · 19 December 2005, 08:27 AM

Originally posted by smallgirl

That just cracks me up. If chemistry is defined by one person not really trusting or respecting the other, then yes Weir and Caldwell are perfect for one another. I love a bit of conflict and clashing with my ships, probably why Hot Zone was the ep that really sold me on Sparky but the Weir/Caldwell idea is just plain desperate. You could convince me of McWeir or even Weir/Ronon or Weir/Zelenka before Weir/Caldwell because at least she appears to like them. The biggest difference between the Weir/Sheppard conflict in Hot Zone and all the occasions when Weir and Caldwell have clashed is that in Hot Zone, Weir cared about Sheppard's insubordination because she wanted him to trust her leadership whereas I get the impression that she isn't bothered how Caldwell views her as long as he accepts her authority.

I also think with conflict between shep and Weir like in Hot Zone we see actual growth and they come out learning something from it and the relationship is strengthened even by it. But with Caldwell and Weir there's just conflict and as a teen I probably would have seen that as some form of foreplay.

Originally posted by smallgirl

Sometimes I find Weir's treatment of Caldwell a bit harsh but the big impression I get is that simply doesn't trust him. Add to the fact that a large part of their conflict has come about because Weir is defending Sheppard and that pretty much kills the Weir/Caldwell dead. Yeah, she has chemistry with a man that she is constantly putting in his place whilst showing her faith in and committment to another man.

I admit I've cringed a few times over Weir's reaction to Caldwell. But it occurred to me she has a very anti-military background however Sheppard's not exactly by the book style appeals to her more and Shep and Weir compliment each other better. And it works.

Originally posted by smallgirl

As for the idea that it is just from Weir's side. Well, even if that was true, at least we could claim to have one half of the ship on board. As for Sheppard and Teyla I can't find much evidence of interest from either party. Teyla never looks at Sheppard the way Weir does and he doesn't pay her much attention either, even when she's wearing skimpy clothing. In Home and LFP when they spent the most time, they have ever, just with one another, all he ever looked was distracted in the first instance and annoyed and weary in the second.

I can play devil's advocate and convince myself that Weir/Sheppard is just all in my mind but I couldn't even begin to convince myself of any other pairing except for Ronon/Teyla.

Sometimes I feel like when Shep and Teyla are standing next to each other they may as well be in separate rooms for the acknowledgment there is between them.

Referring back to my point about the conflict between Shep. and Weir has shown growth conversly the conflict between shep and Teyla in LFP I didn't find any mutual understanding or growth between them.

**Melyanna** · 19 December 2005, 08:42 AM

I just want to remind people of something concerning spoilers (other than to use spoiler space, which people are getting a bit lax about) for The Tower.

Spoiler:

**Erised** · 19 December 2005, 08:47 AM

Originally posted by Melyanna

I just want to remind people of something concerning spoilers (other than to use spoiler space, which people are getting a bit lax about) for The Tower.

Spoiler:

Announcement

Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

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