Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Buggy542]

Alyssa and Lexa... I transcribed it for you

Spoiler:

Weir: I crossed a line, John, with kavanaugh.
John: You did what you had to do (weir looks up) the good news is he wasn't hurt.
Weir: here we are gloating about the infight among the wraith... How are we any different?
John: (thinks and looks away)

Juli! You've returned!
Nice transcript. I must ask, did you memorize that?


Royal_Nonesuch,

Spoiler:

He fainted before Ronan could lay a finger on him

As for homework... Bah! Procrastinate later, live now!

[Bama]

I'm a little confused about this one fabulous spoiler.

Spoiler:

In the scene where Halan/John says "he cares about you far more than you know"--is that John speaking for Halan to Phoebus, or Halan speaking for John to the Liz concsiousness in Phoebus?!!? Or are we yet sure?

If this really is from

Spoiler:

John, I think it is the admission we have been waiting for. Or at least, the acknowledgement from his side that we have been predicting. What a baeutiful way to weave that in. Shep cares so much that his consiousness is able to dominate!

I think that pretty much nails it Royal except that it seems that

Spoiler:

Halan is simply speaking *for* John after 'reading' his emotions/thoughts about Elizabeth. However, my earlier point was that he must feel like he's reading John's powerful emotions regarding Elizabeth correctly as he pulls it out as his 'ace in the hole' to try to get thru to the 'Elizabeth' inside of Phoebus with it. And if Elizabeth has 'sight' and consciousness inside Phoebus, then she'll realize and remember that admission.

[Lexa Jayde]

OMG... we are so spoiled....

[SallyLizzie]

I think that pretty much nails it Royal except that it seems that

Spoiler:

Halan is simply speaking *for* John after 'reading' his emotions/thoughts about Elizabeth. However, my earlier point was that he must feel like he's reading John's powerful emotions regarding Elizabeth correctly as he pulls it out as his 'ace in the hole' to try to get thru to the 'Elizabeth' inside of Phoebus with it. And if Elizabeth has 'sight' and consciousness inside Phoebus, then she'll realize and remember that admission.

Hang on! If

Spoiler:

Halan istrying to use John to get to Elizabeth, then J/E must have some degree of control, otherwise why bother? I don't think Phoebus would be bothered if she killed the man her host cared for, so why bother saying it all if Lizzie couldn't do anything?

[LurkerLa]

I just have to say - if this is how fast the thread moves just based on spoilers, I'm going to have to just vegetate in front of my computer and never leave when the episode actually airs.

I had to explain to my mother today why I was squeeing when I got to work - and when I told her she said "Oooh, exciting!" in such a way that for once, she wasn't making fun of my addiction to this show.

I'm so totally hung up on this info that it's making it hard for me to write this new weird romance story fic-thing I've got going. I just want to sit here and loop the promo over and over instead of doing anything else...

*opens media player again*

[Erised]

ok I just realized that I am a huge Sheppy/Weir shipper! I love them both and they should be together and have all the pretty babies!

love the sig SallyLizzie, was working on something on my own but can't do anything for some reason!

[Lexa Jayde]

Hang on! If

Spoiler:

Halan istrying to use John to get to Elizabeth, then J/E must have some degree of control, otherwise why bother? I don't think Phoebus would be bothered if she killed the man her host cared for, so why bother saying it all if Lizzie couldn't do anything?

i second that!!!

[SallyLizzie]

*opens media player again*

You shut it in the first place!?

[Melyanna]

Hang on! If

Spoiler:

Halan istrying to use John to get to Elizabeth, then J/E must have some degree of control, otherwise why bother? I don't think Phoebus would be bothered if she killed the man her host cared for, so why bother saying it all if Lizzie couldn't do anything?

Good question.

Spoiler:

I think it might boil down to why it is that Phoebus seems more violent than Halan.

They've been described as mortal enemies, so why isn't Halan taking the same kinds of drastic measures? I think it's possible that Halan has more of a sense of the fact that they're not just facing each other off. They're pulling two innocent bystanders into the fray, along with endangering the entire city. There are lives other than their own at stake, and I think Halan realizes that.

So he can tell that John is dedicated to every person in the city, but in particular, the woman hosting his enemy. If he can tell all this from his host, perhaps Phoebus can tell this from Elizabeth. So I think it's an attempt to evoke compassion from Phoebus by telling her – and thus her host – that John cares more for Elizabeth than Elizabeth realizes. I think the real test of that is going to be Elizabeth's immediate reaction.

There's a beautiful moment in the final episode of SG-1's fifth season, wherein Sam tells the Goa'uld Osiris that Daniel Jackson is dead. Osiris' host is, of course, Sarah Gardner, who was an old girlfriend of Daniel's. There's a moment where Osiris falters, and you see Sarah's reaction, and she's devastated. Given how wonderful Torri Higginson is with giving those little hints, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a slip like that.

[SallyLizzie]

ok I just realized that I am a huge Sheppy/Weir shipper! I love them both and they should be together and have all the pretty babies!

love the sig SallyLizzie, was working on something on my own but can't do anything for some reason!

W00t! We got another one

WELCOME!

Thx, but all credit goes to Wizengamot.

[Bama]

Hang on! If

Spoiler:

Halan istrying to use John to get to Elizabeth, then J/E must have some degree of control, otherwise why bother? I don't think Phoebus would be bothered if she killed the man her host cared for, so why bother saying it all if Lizzie couldn't do anything?

SL, I think that's part of the 'mystery' of the episode that we are not supposed to understand clearly.

Spoiler:

How much is John pushing and how much is Halan just 'reading'. This one, like Conversion is going to have to be watched closely and intently and more than once for a good reading on it and even then some of it may be up to interpretation. I do agree with what was said earlier though-we're supposed to take from this one way or another one huge thing regarding John Sheppard. He cares a whole heck of a lot about Elizabeth Weir and his emotions are deeper than he's ever admitted -perhaps even to himself.

I like to put myself in their shoes here. Can you IMAGINE being the 'real' Elizabeth inside of the Phoebus controlled one and seeing yourself about to passionately kiss him and feel him and not be able to stop it on your will? It probably shocks and petrifies her. At the same time, can you imagine the John 'inside' of Halan watching and realizing she's going to kiss him and later kill him and not be able to control yourself totally? Can you imagine his emotions at seeing her do this to him? Just wow. This thing is going to toss our boy and girl both for a tumble -perhaps in different and various ways but a tumble just the same. Talk about shakin it up!

John's amount of sway and control is the wildcard in this episode.

[~beach chick~]

I just have to say - if this is how fast the thread moves just based on spoilers, I'm going to have to just vegetate in front of my computer and never leave when the episode actually airs.

I agree with this! I didn't check this thread for 2 days and I had missed like 5 or 6 pages!!!!! It was crazy! It was a good thing I read the pages I missed. I got to read all about TLG spoilers!!!!

[Bama]

Good question.

Spoiler:

I think the real test of that is going to be Elizabeth's immediate reaction.

There's a beautiful moment in the final episode of SG-1's fifth season, wherein Sam tells the Goa'uld Osiris that Daniel Jackson is dead. Osiris' host is, of course, Sarah Gardner, who was an old girlfriend of Daniel's. There's a moment where Osiris falters, and you see Sarah's reaction, and she's devastated. Given how wonderful Torri Higginson is with giving those little hints, I wouldn't be surprised if we see a slip like that.

Spoiler:

Wouldn't just the slightest momentary eye blink or pause be just incredible there to see before Phoebus again takes over with force! I too am hopeful Torri might be able to pull such off.

[SallyLizzie]

Oh, i get you Mel.

(I remember that scene in SG1. I thought it was very touching.)

Spoiler:

So from what you've said, i'm thinking that they can connect to the host but can also block them out if they so choose. By Halan saying this, he's trying to force Phoebus to connect with Liz, if only briefly so that she can feel some of what Liz is feeling, and then maybe some of Liz's compassion might 'bleed' through and Phoebus would let her consciousness fade out with no harm coming to Liz or John.

[Bama]

Oh, i get you Mel.

(I remember that scene in SG1. I thought it was very touching.)

Spoiler:

So from what you've said, i'm thinking that they can connect to the host but can also block them out if they so choose. By Halan saying this, he's trying to force Phoebus to connect with Liz, if only briefly so that she can feel some of what Liz is feeling, and then maybe some of Liz's compassion might 'bleed' through and Phoebus would let her consciousness fade out with no harm coming to Liz or John.

That's what I get too SL. Exactly. And either Elizabeth is mentally

Spoiler:

weaker than John or Halan isn't as strong as Phoebus. I tend to think it's the latter but I doubt Elizabeth, in her right mind will see it that way. I think she'll see it as inexcusable that she couldn't gain control of herself.