Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Athenaktt]

Don't get your hopes up.

Spoiler:

I doubt we'll even see John's return. Act IV, as of the draft they cast with, ends with Teer telling John that he'll defeat the Beast that night, and then her people will be able to ascend. So the episode tag has to have him defeating the Beast, and then Rodney has to show up. Presumably we'll get some kind of scene where John says goodbye to the people in the Cloister and they ascend. I don't think we're going to get John wondering whether or not to go home, but if we're lucky, Rodney might make some mention of how hard Elizabeth worked to save him, like not having slept for a few days or something while she worked on the translations.

I'm afraid I just can't see there being much time for a return to Atlantis scene, unless they forego a farewell to the Ancients. In which case, I can totally see a balcony scene happening. I just don't want anyone to get their hopes up for a big reunion, because this episode really doesn't seem to be structured such that one would happen.

Well...if not, that leaves wrong for another flood of Post-Epiphany fics.

[Athenaktt]

yeah, wasn't it - like, squeeee, but you hit the wrong keys?

LOL, something like that. It was more of a spasm on my keyboard, because I was too excited to type any coherent words.

It was closer to "gnkisapo" instead of "squee". But I've talked to Mel enough that she can figure out my gibberish.

[Bama]

I remember watching that siege 3 moment and not thinkin it was *that* big a deal considering siege 1 and 2 were amongst some of the first eps that I viewed in re-run. I thought it was rather 'normal' for them given how sparky they'd been in the few eps/scenes I'd gotten to see. It wasn't until I got online and started reading and watching the earlier eps that I figured out it wasn't 'supposed' to be that 'way' between shep and weir.

[mgbland]

I think that the S/T ship had something there *hides* in that there was chemistry to begin with. But as the two became closer, it seemed to fizzle out, but the potential was still there, and it was unresolved. S/W on the other hand, seems to be something that has built up over time (and thus will probably last a lot longer), and it's come to a sort of crossroads. The introduction of Ronon, while it present another alternative for Teyla, still didn't put it to rest. But

Spoiler:

the S/T kiss did.

It seemed that they both realised that whatever chemistry had existed, didn't. And that they were better off as friends. Of course, Sheppard needs to open his eyes to the fact that Weir is head over heels in love with him, but I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer for that.

If you're referring to the kiss in "Conversion," it's really not any indication of how Sheppard feels about Teyla. Other than the fact his downstairs had definitely won the battle with his upstairs at the particular moment, thanks to the retrovirus. Unfortunately, in that episode, Sheppard

Spoiler:

really scared Teyla. It was pretty obvious that she thought it would go much further than it did.

This has changed her feelings toward Sheppard. If the way she reacted in Aurora is any indication.

Spoiler:

The way she worded the suggestion for Sheppard to use the pod. "Which would be the greater loss?" The look she gave Sheppard wasn't one of respect, but someone gives someone she's not too keen on at the moment. She could have said, "If something goes wrong, which of you would be the best able to fix it." But she said, "Which would be the greater loss?"

What happened in "Conversion" affected Sheppard's relationship with Teyla, and what happened in "Trinity" affected Rodney's relationship with Sheppard.

Also, in his much more altered state, John's attack on Elizabeth didn't even leave bruises. After watching the season premier of Smallville, the vixin there throddled Lois Lane, and she ended up with laryngitis. So, John was obviously using every shred of control he had left in that scene.

It's interesting, that until the Seige III and Conversion, we never had an inkling about either Weir's hug, or John & Teyla's wonderully coreographed sparring scene where the audience learned that something was definitely wrong with John.

Still, I'd love to see a physical form of affection from Weir to Sheppard when they reunite in "The Hive." Of course, Weir is close to both McKay and Teyla, so her worry over Sheppard's team isn't necessary just for Sheppard. She's still a bit gun shy around Ronan, but she's trying to get to know him better, and seems to be failing if her performance in "Aurora" is any indication.

[mgbland]

I hope in Weir's "Woop Ass on Sheppard" episode. Is it "The Long Goodbye." She makes some real overt moves on Sheppard. Call me demented, but I loved the scene in Smallville, where Chloe Sullivan got the love bug and tried to seduce Clark.

Something like that would great!

Are there no images of Weir because her looks change dramatically?

[mgbland]

Okay, this is what I wrote up on Epiphany back when I got the spoilers in June, taken straight from my LJ, complete with flailing.
That Episode Where They Channel The Matrix, or Epiphany

Spoiler:

The concept isn't the most original in the world, but when you've done nine seasons of a franchise already, it's hard to keep the ideas fresh. But to their credit, they managed to take the essence of "One Hundred Days" over in SG-1 and make something new out of it.

The twist is that the only way John has to get out is to ascend with the others of the Cloister. (It's unclear how many there are, but they're the last of the Ancients, the ones who are waiting on this planet until they've all learned to ascend.) John shows up and is attacked by something that's just referred to as the Beast.

Teer, her little sister Hedda, and her brother Avrid rescue Sheppard from certain death. Hedda has the Ancient power of healing and brings John back to health. It turns out that such gifts manifest themselves as a person comes closer and closer to ascension. Their mother was telekinetic before she ascended. (Hedda, a teenager, has a crush on John. It's kind of cute.)

Flanigan's comment about how it had been "five minutes" for Rodney was a bit of an exaggeration. John gets sucked through a portal to this planet under the time dilation, and they end up bringing Elizabeth to the portal to translate writings at the site. (LINGUIST!LIZZIE! YAY!) So obviously it's more than five minutes.

I think this episode may also answer whether or not Elizabeth has the gene or has had the gene therapy. My theory? She doesn't and hasn't. We've seen Rodney translate Ancient before. It's possible that he looked at it and felt Elizabeth would do a better job, but I think it's equally likely that the portal is gene-activated to protect the Cloister from the Wraith, so he can't go near the thing. So Elizabeth goes off-world (*flails!*) and presumably saves John (*flails some more!*). Zelenka is mentioned and may also be in the episode.

Anyway, Teer has visions and can follow people's presences, and apparently has had visions of John rescuing them from the Beast all her life. (This is where they channel The Matrix. John is The One.) Predictably, she kisses him, but I'm having a spot of trouble figuring out exactly what to make of it. The big difference between this and 100 Days is that John never seems to give up hope of rescue. He's there considerably longer than Jack was on Edora, but still goes back to the portal to see if there's any sign of his people. So Teer doesn't strike me as Laira as much, but unfortunately the kiss is the end of Act Four, and no indication of John's reaction is given. However, she seems to be a much better character than the last Ancient chick we saw. She isn't throwing herself at him — she's much more concerned about how he affects her people. Can't really blame the woman, either. She's been seeing visions of this really hot guy saving her people for all her life. I'd want to kiss him anyway. I mean, I'd want to kiss him too.

So I'm now wondering what the title is in reference to. John's supposed to lead these people to ascension or something, but in the end, I imagine McKay is going to show up, knowing how to get back without ascending. (My shippy little heart is thinking that Rodney mentions how hard Elizabeth worked to figure it out. But it's way too early in the series for that. *hopes anyway*)

Linguist!Lizzie! *flails again!*

I actually hated the 100 days! It really bothered me that O'Neill would have been with a woman, gotten rescued, then left her so quickly not even knowing if she got pregnant. You'd think he would have shown more responsibility than that. Especially since they were supposed to be discussing trade negotiations at the beginning of the episode. Also in a pre-technological society, A LOT of women died in childbirth.

I hope John doesn't do something similar. Which leads to a question . . . If a pregnant woman ascends, does her unborn child do so too?

[Bama]

Don't get your hopes up.

Spoiler:

I doubt we'll even see John's return. Act IV, as of the draft they cast with, ends with Teer telling John that he'll defeat the Beast that night, and then her people will be able to ascend. So the episode tag has to have him defeating the Beast, and then Rodney has to show up. Presumably we'll get some kind of scene where John says goodbye to the people in the Cloister and they ascend. I don't think we're going to get John wondering whether or not to go home, but if we're lucky, Rodney might make some mention of how hard Elizabeth worked to save him, like not having slept for a few days or something while she worked on the translations.

I'm afraid I just can't see there being much time for a return to Atlantis scene, unless they forego a farewell to the Ancients. In which case, I can totally see a balcony scene happening. I just don't want anyone to get their hopes up for a big reunion, because this episode really doesn't seem to be structured such that one would happen.

That's a shame given that it's such a natural for a quiet balcony scene. I'd love to see John looking across the water reflectively upon his return and have Elizabeth walk out to join him and say nothing but "Welcome home John." With one long 'stare' moment of understanding between them as they both turn to look back out over the water and the camera pulls away. I mean how long would that take? twenty seconds?
Sigh...why won't they let me write these things....?

Still, it sounds like John may get his chance when

Spoiler:

he says 'goodbye' to the ancients. I could see him explaining to them that he wanted to go to his 'home'. That could be a nice moment for his character. I can't imagine that Rodney will say much about anyone other than himself

but maybe he'll surprise us. *crosses fingers*

[Finnstardust]

My goodness, I'm away for less than a week and I have just read about 25 new pages. You guys have really been busy! Hours fly by while reading this thread.

And over 10 000 posts alltogether - wow! That's amazing.

[SallyLizzie]

I hope John doesn't do something similar. Which leads to a question . . . If a pregnant woman ascends, does her unborn child do so too?

I'm sure i read that

Spoiler:

when she starts talking babies he backs off. I think this takes place when/just after she kisses him

. Or i may be completely wrong and dreamt the whole scenario up

This would depend on your view of 'when does the foetus become a baby' imo. So either:
- It ascends as part of her but with ascension being a form of energy, I'd think you would need have a physical form to give birth so she would never actually go into labour.
- The baby would have to believe itself worthy of ascension (imo unlikely as it doesn't have the ability for such knowledge yet)

[Bama]

I'm sure i read that

Spoiler:

when she starts talking babies he backs off. I think this takes place when/just after she kisses him

. Or i may be completely wrong and dreamt the whole scenario up

No, I think that's right SL, but it's 'The Tower'.

[Southern Red]

I've heard that Cybil Sheppard and Bruce Willis absolutely hated each other when they were filming "Moonlighting", but that ended up as a great on-screen relationship.

One thing that bothers me with Shep/Teyla fans is that some of them are going to an extreme - beyond what is on the screen and going on and on about Joe and Rachel IRL, and how cute they are together, and doing up siggys and icons with nothing but con and promo pics where he has his arm around her posing, or she is kissing his cheek. It is WAAAYYY too personal, especially with him having family that he obviously loves very much. That kind of fanaticism is really starting to bother me.

With Shep/Weir - Torri has her own personal life. The romance is "on-screen" and not perceived as bleeding over into RL.

Boy did you hit my hot button. I too have had exactly the same feelings but was reluctant to "go there." Everytime I see those pics I cringe knowing that witless people will make too much of them. I mean for God's sakes if they had a thing IRL do you think they'd be advertising it? Mark it down to 2 things, desperation for their empty ship and clueless immaturity. On this thread we have done an absolutely fabulous job of keeping the actors and their characters separate. If I knew for one minute that anything I have said would hurt any actor or their families I would stop posting. I have said before that one of the things I admire most about JF is his love for his family, and anyone who does anything to imply otherwise should be given a good talking to. That doesn't stop me from wanting to, well never mind, but I'm sure his wife understands by now.

[Melyanna]

That's a shame given that it's such a natural for a quiet balcony scene. I'd love to see John looking across the water reflectively upon his return and have Elizabeth walk out to join him and say nothing but "Welcome home John." With one long 'stare' moment of understanding between them as they both turn to look back out over the water and the camera pulls away. I mean how long would that take? twenty seconds?
Sigh...why won't they let me write these things....?

Still, it sounds like John may get his chance when

Spoiler:

he says 'goodbye' to the ancients. I could see him explaining to them that he wanted to go to his 'home'. That could be a nice moment for his character. I can't imagine that Rodney will say much about anyone other than himself

but maybe he'll surprise us. *crosses fingers*

Well, you never know. Atlantis has managed to surprise me a few times by doing exactly what I'd like the show to do, even if I didn't really expect it. But SG has a tendency to wrap things up neatly at the end, so... I kind of doubt we'll get much of anything. (And no, my theory in life isn't to keep expectations low to get the highest surprise value.

As for what I want to see in it,

Spoiler:

and these aren't really spoilers so much as random speculation, I'd like it if Teer and the other Ancients know immediately that John's leaving. I don't think there really needs to be a big goodbye scene, as I think Teer's probably known all along that John would never give up hope of seeing his friends again. I'd like it if it went straight from Rodney's arrival to John back on Atlantis a few days later. John's epiphany should be that Atlantis is and will always be his home. Then Elizabeth can come out, and... I really don't care where it goes from there. Anything these two do onscreen is magic.

At any rate, I do think this episode is going to be the other side of the coin from Intruder. In that one, Elizabeth cut ties and went back to her new home. In this one, John's forging new ties, only to sever them and go back to his home.

[mgbland]

A validation scene in Epiphany wouldn't take long, 20 to 30 seconds.

I like the balcony scene idea! Or maybe a toast in Weir's office?

[mentalmichael]

A validation scene in Epiphany wouldn't take long, 20 to 30 seconds.

I like the balcony scene idea! Or maybe a toast in Weir's office?

exactly, its not like it will take long but could be vital in determining the course of the overall plot. Frankly I would be amazed if they didn't put something in, not just for Sheppard/Weir but for everyone, you can't tell me Rodney, Teyla etc won't be in a celebratory mood.

Also I'd just like to say that Hatcheter is a genius and the videos are fantastic, find them here: http://stargate-sg1.hu/atlantis/johnelizabeth/videos/

[Bama]

exactly, its not like it will take long but could be vital in determining the course of the overall plot. Frankly I would be amazed if they didn't put something in, not just for Sheppard/Weir but for everyone, you can't tell me Rodney, Teyla etc won't be in a celebratory mood.

Also I'd just like to say that Hatcheter is a genius and the videos are fantastic, find them here: http://stargate-sg1.hu/atlantis/johnelizabeth/videos/

This is a such a

Spoiler:

personal ep for John that I think any 'pointer' we get regarding him and Atlantis or he and Elizabeth will be very important and most likely very subtle. I don't think we'll see any sort of big celebration or even much of the other characters in this ep besides John. That is exactly WHY I think it's very telling and important that it is Elizabeth that brings him home whether he knows it or not.

Of course if he knows it, all the better to drive the nail home.

And I totally agree and raise a toast to Hatcheter's genius! GREAT vids! I rec'd em once and I'd gladly do so again!