Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon
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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread
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I was just asking a simple question!sigpichttps://www.fanfiction.net/s/7450657...-World-Goes-On Sparky story SGA https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10177037/1/Bad-Moon-Rising Teen Wolf fanfic story https://www.fanfiction.net/s/10573271/1/Skyfall Thor fanfic story
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Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View PostI was just asking a simple question!(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
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Originally posted by gateraid View PostOh for the love of....Did this come out of the same violet foreigner that suggested Weir ordered the strike on the Asurans? Don't get me wrong, I understand the Weir criticisms (and in some cases agree) but there's no need to just make stuff up. grrrr
Grrr again. DG is just LAZY WRITING. If they'd decided that they wanted to get rid of Heightmeyer (I doubt that was the case, I imagine the creative process followed similar lines to the one in Sunday - "lets do something to raise the stakes!!!") then by all means find a way to kill her off. But don't make it the stupidest way possible. What point did it actually serve? If, at the end of the episode, it was revealed that 3/4 of it was actually in John's head, it would still have been just as effective. And it might have even allowed a deeper insight into John's personality. But no, lets kill off the least likely character to come into harms way (heck, even Elizabeth actually got herself into situations involving guns and explosions) in the most facepalming way possible. And then have the two characters who had virtually no interaction with her be the most cut up about it. Fail. Fail, fail, fail.
If you're a Voyager fan, you might remember the scene where the Doctor illustrates that whilst he's just a hologram (and can materialise/dematerialise) he can still pick things up, can still feel things, and is still solid. He proves this by slapping Paris to illustrate he is solid, then punches a few buttons, and when Paris slaps him back Paris's hand passes right through him. Of course the logic of this scene is undone because somehow, whilst in his 'fluid' state, he can press the buttons to make himself solid again.
Or, if you want a cruder analogy, Janeway gets the hots for a hologram. She makes him a foot taller and deletes his wife. That was the extent of it, but I'm sure you can probably imagine what other alterations could be made.
Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).
Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....Daniel: You know referring to yourself in the third person is a sign of mental instability right?
McKay: Yeah, mentally unstable like a FOX!
O'neill: Carter, I should be irked currently, yes?!
Elizabeth: I'm not going anywhere
John: good, wouldn't be the same without you
Carson: You have a date Rodney? With a woman?
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Originally posted by drewandian View PostI was thinking about the woobie face in GitM (which I will confess I haven't seen yet but I've seen enough caps and read the transcript) and imo I think it was an improvisation on Joe's part...we all know he wasn't pleased with how Torri was treated towards the end and I wouldn't put it past him to make that displeasure known in any means possibleOriginally posted by Falcon Horus View PostI wouldn't put it past him either... his way of rebelling against TPTW.
Originally posted by gateraid View PostOh for the love of....Did this come out of the same violet foreigner that suggested Weir ordered the strike on the Asurans? Don't get me wrong, I understand the Weir criticisms (and in some cases agree) but there's no need to just make stuff up. grrrr
Moving on
Ah, back to the Tales from the AU. Those AU caps were some of my best work
Grrr again. DG is just LAZY WRITING. If they'd decided that they wanted to get rid of Heightmeyer (I doubt that was the case, I imagine the creative process followed similar lines to the one in Sunday - "lets do something to raise the stakes!!!") then by all means find a way to kill her off. But don't make it the stupidest way possible. What point did it actually serve? If, at the end of the episode, it was revealed that 3/4 of it was actually in John's head, it would still have been just as effective. And it might have even allowed a deeper insight into John's personality. But no, lets kill off the least likely character to come into harms way (heck, even Elizabeth actually got herself into situations involving guns and explosions) in the most facepalming way possible. And then have the two characters who had virtually no interaction with her be the most cut up about it. Fail. Fail, fail, fail.
And seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...
Wow, I didn't realise JM had said that about Carl. I've started to wonder now whether, with the benefit of hindsight and how Binder opined that he loved writing McKeller and Keller, if he wasn't hedging his bets early on by laying some (very subtle) groundwork for sparky in case TPTW changed their minds and went with that pairing.
Of course it could also be as simple as him liking Elizabeth, writing stuff for her, and wondering "who would she have this scene with" and logically write it with Sheppard, because she could be a little more revealing with him *shrugs*unless someone were to take TPTW hostage and torture them.
Originally posted by mandogater View PostHey, I just noticed I got promoted!!
Now I'm the very model of a modern Major General. I have information animal, vegetable and Sparky. Or however that tune goes.
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostDo you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure
Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).
Gotta get some sleep! Good night, everybody!
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Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostDo you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostAh, yes, I remember these well. There's one with a similar plot in which the doc gets all heartbrokey and it's just so heartbrea--anyway, that was OT...where were we?
Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).
Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....
Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
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Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View PostOkay, I'm not a watcher of Star Trek Voyager. But I do get your point. Think you'd be up to writing something like that for John and Elizabeth?
I've made a few attempts at fics, but I can only write snarky stuff, or longer stories that I start but can't finish.
Originally posted by mandogater View PostOkay. Maybe we should form our own club?
Hey, I just noticed I got promoted!!
Now I'm the very model of a modern Major General. I have information animal, vegetable and Sparky. Or however that tune goes.
Originally posted by Southern Red View PostI'm surprised that this surprises you after all you've seen and heard. LOL Yes, it's very true and was stated with absolute certainty. Repeatedly. John's concern in GitM was for the city, not Elizabeth.
Wow again. I wonder how this person perceived his "what if one of them wanted to stay" line. He must've meant for interrogation purposes *nods*
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostDo you mean that someone thought Weir ordered the strike which she said, numerous times, that she was against? That's...definitely a...possibility. Sure
Ah, yes, I remember these well. There's one with a similar plot in which the doc gets all heartbrokey and it's just so heartbrea--anyway, that was OT...where were we?
Ah, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).
Anyway, I need to go decide between feeding a fancition bunny, or an original fiction bunny....
That said, judging by her actions, I didn't get the impression she was Weir either. Sure, she had her memories, but she wasn't her.
Originally posted by ShipperWriter View PostI'd like to think so as well...
What SR said. But they're not making it up. They're reading between the lines. ROFL
And seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...
But having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"
Originally posted by Scary Kitty View PostIn some whacked out alternate universe, that is.
And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.
Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*sigpic
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Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Post
Nope, I agree. Which is why, in my head canon, Elizabeth Weir is still out there. And she looks like Torri Higginson.
Gotta get some sleep! Good night, everybody!Originally posted by Scary Kitty View PostAnd that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.
Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*
In some whacked out alternate universe, that is.
Originally posted by gateraid View PostIs that the one where he creates a holographic family, and one of them dies, it takes a huge emotional toll on him......and they hit the reset button at the end of the episode?
Yes, I was impressed by her performance too. If they'd stuck with her playing Weir (or a version of her) then that would have been fine with me, because Sparky 2.0 seemed to work fine.
That said, judging by her actions, I didn't get the impression she was Weir either. Sure, she had her memories, but she wasn't her.Daniel: You know referring to yourself in the third person is a sign of mental instability right?
McKay: Yeah, mentally unstable like a FOX!
O'neill: Carter, I should be irked currently, yes?!
Elizabeth: I'm not going anywhere
John: good, wouldn't be the same without you
Carson: You have a date Rodney? With a woman?
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Originally posted by Brie View PostI always wondered how intentional it was and I would love to know.
I know that Mallozzi said that Binder was the go to guy when it came to writing Elizabeth and he wrote most of the episodes that either centered around her (such as BIS and TRW) which is another reasons to love his work since who knows how much she would really have been there had he not, but anyway, I think maybe having a lot of Sheppard around seem natural. But did write a lot of good episodes such as my own personal favorite episodes of SGA ‘Echoes’, he also wrote a lot of the episodes in the later seasons that centered around Teyla and Keller so I’m really glad that he was there, otherwise we might have seen even less of the female characters (and I know he wasn’t the only one who did, it’s just that the females didn’t seem to be a priority for many of the show runners).
Originally posted by gateraid View PostWow, I didn't realise JM had said that about Carl. I've started to wonder now whether, with the benefit of hindsight and how Binder opined that he loved writing McKeller and Keller, if he wasn't hedging his bets early on by laying some (very subtle) groundwork for sparky in case TPTW changed their minds and went with that pairing.
Of course it could also be as simple as him liking Elizabeth, writing stuff for her, and wondering "who would she have this scene with" and logically write it with Sheppard, because she could be a little more revealing with him *shrugs*
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostAh, on the topic of Michelle M's Liz, from a little bit back, I just thought I'd add my two cents. Like a lot of you, I was really happy with her performance, especially since, going into it, I thought we were going to get two completely different versions of Liz. The only major problem I had with the episode was the way the character was written. Maybe some will argue that Elizabeth was still herself, but to me it didn't seem like Original-Lizzeh would've (if you're planning to watch it, this might be a spoiler) brought all these replicators back to Atlantis to ask for bodies(end spoiler).
And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.sigpic
Please visit sga-rising.com for a Season 6 of Stargate: Atlantis
View my projects on FF.net || AO3 || YouTube
(Formerly known as Sparks of Atlantis)
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Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostAh, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.
That was cracktastic. Thanks for the laugh this early in the morning!
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Originally posted by ShipperWriter View PostAnd seriously. How many times did John even talk to Kate during the time she was on? FH has the answer, I'm sure...Originally posted by gateraid View PostI know they had group scenes together (the Michael conference room scene springs to mind, as well as The Gift hypnosis/possession scene) but don't think they had a one-on-one scene.
Whenever they talked it was always with other people around - The Gift (infirmary & Elizabeth's office), Michael (briefing room), Doppelganger (briefing room & observation room). As far as memory serves, those are the times they were in same room together.
Hence why the Kate/John pairing is so much fun to imagine because it goes back to only one scene in Michael - the one in the briefing room where Kate and John go head to head about what to do with Michael. And it's maybe one or two lines from each character and a 1 second moment.
Originally posted by ShipperWriter View PostMore questions that we'll never get the answers tounless someone were to take TPTW hostage and torture them.
Whose ankles need biting here?
Originally posted by gateraid View PostCongrats Everyone is getting promoted before me. I am fast becoming the Major Davis of this thread
Originally posted by gateraid View PostBut having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostAh, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.
Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1
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Originally posted by Scary Kitty View PostIn some whacked out alternate universe, that is.
And that idea right there is why so many of us are convinced is the canonical proof that FRANibeth was NOT the original Weir, even though she claimed she was. Along with Mallozzi basically confirming on his blog that the "plan" for Season 6 was that the real Weir was going to be found elsewhere.
Good luck with those bunnies... *passes over a basket of carrots and runs*
Originally posted by gateraid View PostThere's been a misunderstanding. I don't have any writing skills myself. I just sit in my armchair and berate those that actually do attempt something
Wow again. I wonder how this person perceived his "what if one of them wanted to stay" line. He must've meant for interrogation purposes *nods*
Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View Post
It kind of bothered me in any episode "Elizabeth" appeared in after "Lifeline" how she seemed too calm. We know how Elizabeth isn't a very outwardly emotional woman, but one would think that after her ordeal with the Replicators and finally seeing her friends again, she would be more emotional about it. Instead, we can see in "The Mortal Coil," where "Elizabeth" is a clone, it seemed as if she was taking what had happened to her in stride.
And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.
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Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View PostI'm pretty good. I'm glad that Thanksgiving is over. Being with relatives can be so stress inducing!
Originally posted by Scary Kitty View PostWeekend?
Originally posted by Falcon Horus View PostCool!
Originally posted by Sparky She-Demon View PostWhat do you think of my idea to use my twins in my Sparky Advent offering?
Originally posted by ShipperWriter View PostI can't believe nobody has noticed...
But we've passed 130,000 posts!
*pops open the champagne*
Originally posted by JT-2 View PostAs for SK's fics, I know where her big bang fic but not the others.
Originally posted by ShipperWriter View Postsigpicsig by Erin Atlantis Rising: The Virtual series Thank you so much for "Primum Movens"
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Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Sparky!Family and College Football Saturday! Good luck to everyone who's still got a team in the hunt for the post-season!
Originally posted by gateraid View PostThere's been a misunderstanding. I don't have any writing skills myself. I just sit in my armchair and berate those that actually do attempt something
Originally posted by gateraid View PostBut having Carter (whom I loved from SG-1) and Keller be the ones cut up about her death just made me think "oh shut the hell up, you two didn't even know her"
Originally posted by gateraid View PostMallozzi can be the king of double speak sometimes, but this time, I'm reminded of the line from X-Files: "I want to believe"
Originally posted by MentallyUnstableFox View PostAh, yes, the universe in which Weir was actually never making the expedition's decisions, but was the IOA's puppet, taking secret orders for them in an undercover operation to overthrow the government. Not only that, but she was stabbing them in the back by selling top secret info to the Wraith, who in turn rewarded her with a whole bunch of little doohickeys to display around her office. What the Wraith didn't know, however, was that she was host to a Goa'uld. She also had an affair with Kavanaugh. That universe.
Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View PostI know that Carl Binder once said in an interview on GateWorld that he wasn't the best when it came to creative writing, but he enjoyed working with the characters and their individual personas. He tried focusing on the moral dilemmas a character might face and used those to come up with sci-fi related plots. Just look at the whole spectrum of episodes he's written that deal a lot with the characters themselves. We have all of the Elizabeth episodes, such as "Before I Sleep" and "The Real World." "Letters From Pegasus" let us sympathize with the characters as they wished their loved ones well. "Critical Mass" gave us some amazing Teyla moments and a debate with morality at the episode's end. And "McKay and Mrs. Miller" was a touching story that left us with the message of the importance of family and friends. (I love how the episode closes with John and his team chatting and laughing in the mess hall.) If anyone is the king when it comes to truly knowing and understanding his characters, it's Carl Binder.
Originally posted by Sparks of Atlantis View PostIt kind of bothered me in any episode "Elizabeth" appeared in after "Lifeline" how she seemed too calm. We know how Elizabeth isn't a very outwardly emotional woman, but one would think that after her ordeal with the Replicators and finally seeing her friends again, she would be more emotional about it. Instead, we can see in "The Mortal Coil," where "Elizabeth" is a clone, it seemed as if she was taking what had happened to her in stride.
And not to mention, it was a bit difficult for me to imagine Elizabeth working with the Replicators to build human bodies, even if they were a faction who wanted to break away from Oberoth. After "The Real World," you would think that nanites were now one of her biggest fears. That was reinforced in "Adrift" and "Lifeline" after Rodney reactivated her nanites. And now, she's working with Replicators, manufactured from the very insidious robots that had been unleashed in her body and caused her much emotional trauma. I suppose one could argue that she was trying to make the best of the situation, but that would imply that she still had hope for herself. In "Adrift" and "Lifeline," her despair when she talked with Teyla and John seemed to send the message that she didn't want to live anymore, and that may have also been another reason why she sacrificed herself to the Replicators. If I was told that we never saw the real Elizabeth after "Lifeline" again, and she was actually in stasis, free from emotional trauma, I could probably believe that.(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon. Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
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