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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread
done years ago for the whump thread by a no longer posting whumper. we seemed to have a food theme going on for a bit
OMFGLMAO! I don't think I will ever see muffins the same way again!
(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon.Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
I guess the whumpers were extra hungry that night. We wanted to fork Shep!! *shifty eyes*
OMG! That's an instant classic!
(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon.Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
Teyla's reaction of "wuh huh?" was pretty similar to my own The civilian, let alone a woman bit had me scratching my head, given that it hadn't really been an issue. The civilian thing had been a few times, but they'd worked through that years ago.
<snip>
To a point. There wasn't much John could do in that situation, he was following orders, regardless of whether Elizabeth agreed with them or not. I don't begrudge either of them for disagreeing over the plan, although they did seem to take it incredibly personally. The OOC John scene that stuck out to me was the Fantastic Four reference - he's a grown man, not twelve FCOL!
I always thought the mistake they made there was having Elizabeth only partially disagreeing (the line it's an ineffectual first strike turned out to be particularly accurate) with her wanting to stall the Asurans until the PWARW's were ready. They also flubbed in the Weir/Ellis office scene when she won him over (diplomacy, anyone?), although the "you don't have the authority" bit was a bit hammy.
All the problems with First Strike come down to the writing as in, Brad Wright wasn't overseeing Martin Gero's scripts anymore, so it became obvious how crappy Gero's writing actually was.
Possibly saw a leprechaun today... that, or it was the Easterbunny... *ponders*
Anyhow, loving the B&B's that have free wifi...
I wrote a Carson/Teyla once. They're easy to write for as a couple, they could totally fit.
Yup, they would totally work. I really like Ronon/Teyla but then you've got the issues with them being on the same team. I don't know how they could keep the baby and keep them on the same team. That goes for John/Teyla as well. Unless the baby was taken away or kidnapped or some other cliche crap, there would be too many issues around it. Just my opinion, of course.
All the problems with First Strike come down to the writing as in, Brad Wright wasn't overseeing Martin Gero's scripts anymore, so it became obvious how crappy Gero's writing actually was.
Yup, they would totally work. I really like Ronon/Teyla but then you've got the issues with them being on the same team. I don't know how they could keep the baby and keep them on the same team. That goes for John/Teyla as well. Unless the baby was taken away or kidnapped or some other cliche crap, there would be too many issues around it. Just my opinion, of course.
Definitely! And there are just too many issues with the baby getting taken away or kidnapped or the other cliche crap, too. Oh yes, Carson would really have been the best choice.
So many comments I could make about this........... LOL!!
In-very-deed.
(This is legal notice that any attempt to censor or delete, for the purpose of oppressing fair and open discussion, any statement made by me will be considered a violation of my right to free speech as guaranteed by the First Amendment of the United States Constitution, and will be dealt with in accordance with federal law.)
Sparky is on screen. Therefore, it is canon.Elizabeth is still out there. And John WILL bring her home.
Hey, quick question: when we were talking about books before, what was the opinion on "Casualties of War"? Cause just from the excerpt, it seems like a Sparky friendly book ...
Just wonderin.
And why in the world are some people trying to sell "Mirror, Mirror" online for $150?!?!?!?!
The beginning of S2 seemed to make a giant leap forward in a lot of ways. Leaving Teyla in charge? That seemed like a huge step forward to me. But they never did have a clear chain of command on the civilian side, and since we hadn't met Lorne yet, it couldn't be him. But Teyla? So once again they leave out a huge amount of character growth and relationship development.
It would have made more sense to leave one of the Deadalus senior officers there, although I guess it shows just how much they valued Teyla to leave her in charge for three weeks (possibly six, if they left when the Deadalus did).
I hadn't thought about that angle. The idea that Weir was a woman didn't seem to make much difference. Why complain about it now? And that scene also gave the Weir haters more ammunition. It's like they were setting her up for removal. They wouldn't have done that, surely.
IMO they wrote Weir the same way they wrote Carter sometimes - genderless. As in, you could replace her with a man with little alteration of the script. That said, Torri feminised the role with all her nuances.
That office scene may as well have included an arrow above her head, or an alarm saying "doom approaching". Any time I've ever seen a character mention leaving, they walk in front of the proverbial bus. And generally, if they're not a lead and they get an entire episode devoted to them (Janet), it's never a good sign when they head out into a dangerous situation.
Since that was one of the few scenes we had with someone actually grieving for Elizabeth, I don't think that would have been appropriate. The canonization of Spanky should have come when they spent the time together in the Return eps when the others were gone. They seemed very much like a couple then.
True on both counts. I wonder what the sleeping arrangements were like at the camp?
I always thought Teyla/Carson would have made sense. Having him be the father would have solved a lot of problems.
Yep, we would finally have found out just how far he went when he was under the influence of Lucious
Put that scene down as another example of the diminishing of John Sheppard in the last 2 seasons. And he wouldn't have been the invisible man anyway. He was a scientist, wasn't he? John would fit more as the Human Torch. But because Reed was the leader of the group, John thought he would be that character. If Rodney had been there, he would have corrected him.
I have seen the first movie, but I still don't know who the characters are
Ellis was a bit hammy throughout. He was an arrogant jerk, and Elizabeth easily handled him. They tried to make this about military vs civilian similar to Trinity. But it failed miserably. However, it does prove that John didn't do everything her way because she had emasculated him and/or he was afraid of her.
The Trinity situation was exactly how I thought the civilian/military thing would work, especially given her background. Trinity was her being forced into a position that she wasn't of her choosing so that she could manage it and control it, rather than leaving it to Caldwell.
What made me smirk about FS was that they didn't just cut Weir out of the loop, they cut Sheppard out too. They weren't even aware of what images the Deadalus had been getting under Ellis produced them. Surely they should have been kept informed simply on the basis of Atlantis being the likely first target of any attack?
*snorts* The Gift, Letters From Pegasus... Yeah, Teyla's rose-colored glasses not only got taken off, they were broken.
I worded that badly, I meant Elizabeth and Teyla seemed to get closer after all their face time in The Gift. I think LFP was the John/Teyla equivalent of First Strike. Teyla was so......disillusioned with him in that ep.
The Fantastic Four bit never struck me as odd... remember, this is the same man who back in Season 1 told the Athosian children "ghost stories" that were really the plots of 1980s horror movies.
Oh, IDK, 'classic' horror movies are a bit more mainstream.
I definitely agree with you about the idiocy with which they handled the conflict over the attack plan and Elizabeth dealing with Ellis. And then there's this...
They should have made her completely against the attack. They also shouldn't have allowed her to talk to Oberoth, or at least not in the way she did, as she pretty much toed the company line as she did so. You could be forgiven for thinking that she actually supported the attack if you looked at that scene in isolation.
So did I. Out of all the potential candidates for Teyla's significant other that we had seen prior to S4, Carson really seemed the most logical. Even taking Carson out in Sunday would've solved the problem of having to write the "icky lovey dovey" scenes that TPTW seemed to have an aversion to.
And they could have left the baby with Katie Brown when they were off-world, coz she'd still be around.
Hi there! I'm glad you're having fun!! I hope you find that pot of gold!
All the problems with First Strike come down to the writing as in, Brad Wright wasn't overseeing Martin Gero's scripts anymore, so it became obvious how crappy Gero's writing actually was.
Do you mean by writing an episode that was centred around John and Elizabeth, with a side order of Rodney backing Elizabeth up?
Yup, they would totally work. I really like Ronon/Teyla but then you've got the issues with them being on the same team. I don't know how they could keep the baby and keep them on the same team. That goes for John/Teyla as well. Unless the baby was taken away or kidnapped or some other cliche crap, there would be too many issues around it. Just my opinion, of course.
Nah, she could've borrowed Ronon's pimp!coat while she was pregnant, then they could've hidden the whole thing.
Hey, quick question: when we were talking about books before, what was the opinion on "Casualties of War"? Cause just from the excerpt, it seems like a Sparky friendly book ...
Just wonderin.
And why in the world are some people trying to sell "Mirror, Mirror" online for $150?!?!?!?!
I gather CoW is supposed to be good, but I haven't read any of them
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