Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Still working on the breakfast fic. The muses have come out of hiding and are cooperating for the moment. We'll see how long that lasts, lol!

[mandogater]

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Still working on the breakfast fic. The muses have come out of hiding and are cooperating for the moment. We'll see how long that lasts, lol!

I know what you mean! My muse has been MIA for close to a month.

[ShipperWriter]

Oh geeze, that sucks to hear you didn't have a good time. *hugs*

If you ever get out to LA, look me up. I'll take you to Disneyland. And to heck with the diet!

Good morning, Sparkies! Happy Smutty Tuesday!

Still working on the breakfast fic. The muses have come out of hiding and are cooperating for the moment. We'll see how long that lasts, lol!

Thanks! (SK)

Eagerly awaiting the fic ... my laptop is charging in another teacher's room, so I'm borrowing a student laptop that has school WiFi and brainstorming ideas for my stories. Hee hee hee.

I watched "Suspicion" last night before I went to bed. I thought it was interesting too ... A few things I noticed:

a) it was said that the Athosians have been on Atlantis for three months, but this was only the fifth episode.

b) I liked Elizabeth's sky blue blouse.

c) I liked Elizabeth and Teyla bonding over their leadership roles, knowing what each other has to deal with.

d) I was a bit when John took Teyla out on his and Elizabeth's the balcony to talk with her, but mostly because the lighting stunk. It looked like someone shined a florescent light on them.

e) The interaction between Elizabeth/John/Bates was interesting after Bates once again suggested that Teyla was responsible, especially John's sharp "You're dismissed!" as soon as Bates said that John's personal feelings were getting in the way of his judgment. At least with Bates, his points are valid and he is doing his job as Chief of Security, albeit annoyingly. Kavanagh, on the other hand, was like a dead fish flopping on the dock. You keep waiting for it to roll back over into the lake, or to die, but he never does.

f) It seemed to me that John is having a hard time accepting the fact that he's not "top dog", having to defer to Elizabeth's decisions as the expedition leader.. And I thought Elizabeth handled John well. She is the one who was appointed leader of the Expedition, and it doesn't matter who the Military Commander is. Her job won't change for the time being, anyway ... She and John are still clashing a bit, which I think is normal because you don't adapt to being thrust into command that quickly, especially considering John's checkered past. She still has to keep him on a leash and not let the "I'm the new Sheriff in town" mentality go to his head completely. I love to watch him and Bates argue, though.

Anyhoo, bell's about to ring, gotta go. But those are some observations I had.

Be back later!

[poundpuppy29]

[ShipperWriter]

I know what you mean! My muse has been MIA for close to a month.

Heh, mine was MIA for almost a year, once!

Hope it comes back soon!

When Rodney said we'd experience a flash, this wasn't what I had in mind.
Next staff meeting, we need to be more specific about consequences from Ancient experiments. It's gonna take me a while to get this outta my head.

[ShipperWriter]

D'oh! I forgot the reason I got on in the first place!

I bought Season One on DVD!!! I can now make vids with TS/TE!!!

Now off to housework and fic writing. Be back in a bit, hopefully with something to show for this afternoon.

[Scary Kitty]

Yay on the DVD purchase! Never can have too much of Classic Atlantis.

a) it was said that the Athosians have been on Atlantis for three months, but this was only the fifth episode.

There have been plenty of longer time jumps between episodes both before and since in Stargate history, so the length of time in and of itself didn't concern me. What did worry me was the fact that it's been three months, and only now they're talking about getting to know each other? Really? What the heck have the Lanteans and Athosians been doing for all that time that they couldn't have a weekly clambake or something out on the East Pier? Unbe-frakkin'-lievable.


As to my thoughts on Suspicion... the first time I saw this episode, I honestly didn't think all that much of the conflict between the Lanteans and the Athosians over the leak/spy plot. I figured that it would turn out to be something that no one was expecting and everything would be quickly resolved, which it was. If this had been an isolated incident, I probably wouldn't have even thought of it again after this episode, but in light of the rest of the series, Suspicion marks the beginning of a pattern of behavior out of Teyla that I found rather disturbing. (I'll discuss that aspect to those episodes when we get to them.) Don't get me wrong, I think the matter could have been handled better by all sides, but Teyla didn't do herself or her people any favors by acting like a sulky little brat about it.

Weir, Sheppard and Bates had valid reasons to be concerned about security on Atlantis and were right to act on those concerns swiftly instead of letting it fester (but again, it perhaps could have been handled better). One would think that Teyla, of all people, would be very painfully cognizant of just how precarious Atlantis's position is with the Wraith now awake and on the loose. The Lanteans' concerns, and the rules born of them, aren't there to be a personal affront to Teyla's pride, they exist to provide order in a chaotic world, to protect people against one very scary-ass enemy that is out to kill them all. As a leader herself, Teyla should understand the importance of this issue, but from her behavior here, it seems that she neither understands nor cares. She wants the Lanteans to respect the Athosians and their ways, but when have the Athosians respected the Lanteans and their ways? We had Halling demanding that Weir let the Athosians perform a death ritual that would've sapped the morale of those on board the jumper and wasted the time of those on Atlantis trying to save them in Thirty Eight Minutes, and now we've got Teyla insisting that the Athosians be allowed to go about their business with impunity despite very clear and present evidence that off-world missions with her team have somehow been compromised! She's too concerned with getting her way on this issue to be able to step back and see the big picture. That attitude is potentially far more dangerous to Team Sheppard and Atlantis than I think anyone anticipated at this point. But again, I'll discuss that more when we get to the episodes in question.


And back to Sparky for a moment, I'll give you a little two-word teaser for my breakfast fic: Drunken berries.

*cackles*

[ShipperWriter]

Yay on the DVD purchase! Never can have too much of Classic Atlantis.

There have been plenty of longer time jumps between episodes both before and since in Stargate history, so the length of time in and of itself didn't concern me. What did worry me was the fact that it's been three months, and only now they're talking about getting to know each other? Really? What the heck have the Lanteans and Athosians been doing for all that time that they couldn't have a weekly clambake or something out on the East Pier? Unbe-frakkin'-lievable.

Maybe they don't have clams on Lantea. Ever think of that?

Maybe John and Elizabeth have been busy "getting to know each other".

... And that's my contribution for Smutty!Tuesday!

As to my thoughts on Suspicion... the first time I saw this episode, I honestly didn't think all that much of the conflict between the Lanteans and the Athosians over the leak/spy plot. I figured that it would turn out to be something that no one was expecting and everything would be quickly resolved, which it was. If this had been an isolated incident, I probably wouldn't have even thought of it again after this episode, but in light of the rest of the series, Suspicion marks the beginning of a pattern of behavior out of Teyla that I found rather disturbing. (I'll discuss that aspect to those episodes when we get to them.) Don't get me wrong, I think the matter could have been handled better by all sides, but Teyla didn't do herself or her people any favors by acting like a sulky little brat about it.

Weir, Sheppard and Bates had valid reasons to be concerned about security on Atlantis and were right to act on those concerns swiftly instead of letting it fester (but again, it perhaps could have been handled better). One would think that Teyla, of all people, would be very painfully cognizant of just how precarious Atlantis's position is with the Wraith now awake and on the loose. The Lanteans' concerns, and the rules born of them, aren't there to be a personal affront to Teyla's pride, they exist to provide order in a chaotic world, to protect people against one very scary-ass enemy that is out to kill them all. As a leader herself, Teyla should understand the importance of this issue, but from her behavior here, it seems that she neither understands nor cares. She wants the Lanteans to respect the Athosians and their ways, but when have the Athosians respected the Lanteans and their ways? We had Halling demanding that Weir let the Athosians perform a death ritual that would've sapped the morale of those on board the jumper and wasted the time of those on Atlantis trying to save them in Thirty Eight Minutes, and now we've got Teyla insisting that the Athosians be allowed to go about their business with impunity despite very clear and present evidence that off-world missions with her team have somehow been compromised! She's too concerned with getting her way on this issue to be able to step back and see the big picture. That attitude is potentially far more dangerous to Team Sheppard and Atlantis than I think anyone anticipated at this point. But again, I'll discuss that more when we get to the episodes in question.

I agree with all of that. You just phrased it better. But it is interesting how Teyla is a little two-sided. And don't get me wrong, I'm not dissing Teyla by any means ... I think a lot of it has to do with the writers still getting "comfortable" with both the series and the characters and deciding exactly how they want things to roll. You have Teyla trying to convince her people that Weir and Co. is doing the right thing for everybody's safety, Athosian and Lantean, and then you have Teyla adding herself to the interview list that she "got left off" because she's Athosian but a member of John's team, and then you have Teyla asking Halling "Where will you go?", and then you have Halling's reminder to her that the Expedition are not Ancients, no matter how much she wishes they were. It keeps jumping all over the place!

And granted, she's on new ground too, just like the Expedition, because the Wraith have reawakened so the danger has exponentially increased, both for her people and now for Atlantis as well. Like I said, everybody's still trying to find their footing.

And back to Sparky for a moment, I'll give you a little two-word teaser for my breakfast fic: Drunken berries.

*cackles*

ROFL!!!

Halfway done with the penultimate chapter for ODAD, and "Trading Places" should be up later tonight. Currently ripping TS/TE off my DVD. Yippee!!!

[ShipperWriter]

Where is everybody tonight??? I hear crickets through my iPod ...

ODAD Ch 23 is almost done ... Will be posted when NCIS is over.

[JT-2]

Shipper Writer - such a cute story!!!


Great thoughts on Suspicion, everyone! I thought just about everyone was written a little poorly in that one. But this was written by Mullie and Mallozzi so what do you expect? You have Bates with his ship anvil that he kept saying about John's "personal feelings" for Teyla making him not do the right thing. Another tell instead of show. I would rather SEE someone's personal feelings than be told they are there.

Elizabeth seems to be making sense but then she lets Bates be all belligerent to the Athosians (and to not pronounce Athosians correctly ).

And then Teyla is understanding of Elizabeth's position but being all snotty towards John.

None of it made much sense.

[Southern Red]

Yay on the DVD purchase! Never can have too much of Classic Atlantis.



There have been plenty of longer time jumps between episodes both before and since in Stargate history, so the length of time in and of itself didn't concern me. What did worry me was the fact that it's been three months, and only now they're talking about getting to know each other? Really? What the heck have the Lanteans and Athosians been doing for all that time that they couldn't have a weekly clambake or something out on the East Pier? Unbe-frakkin'-lievable.


As to my thoughts on Suspicion... the first time I saw this episode, I honestly didn't think all that much of the conflict between the Lanteans and the Athosians over the leak/spy plot. I figured that it would turn out to be something that no one was expecting and everything would be quickly resolved, which it was. If this had been an isolated incident, I probably wouldn't have even thought of it again after this episode, but in light of the rest of the series, Suspicion marks the beginning of a pattern of behavior out of Teyla that I found rather disturbing. (I'll discuss that aspect to those episodes when we get to them.) Don't get me wrong, I think the matter could have been handled better by all sides, but Teyla didn't do herself or her people any favors by acting like a sulky little brat about it.

Weir, Sheppard and Bates had valid reasons to be concerned about security on Atlantis and were right to act on those concerns swiftly instead of letting it fester (but again, it perhaps could have been handled better). One would think that Teyla, of all people, would be very painfully cognizant of just how precarious Atlantis's position is with the Wraith now awake and on the loose. The Lanteans' concerns, and the rules born of them, aren't there to be a personal affront to Teyla's pride, they exist to provide order in a chaotic world, to protect people against one very scary-ass enemy that is out to kill them all. As a leader herself, Teyla should understand the importance of this issue, but from her behavior here, it seems that she neither understands nor cares. She wants the Lanteans to respect the Athosians and their ways, but when have the Athosians respected the Lanteans and their ways? We had Halling demanding that Weir let the Athosians perform a death ritual that would've sapped the morale of those on board the jumper and wasted the time of those on Atlantis trying to save them in Thirty Eight Minutes, and now we've got Teyla insisting that the Athosians be allowed to go about their business with impunity despite very clear and present evidence that off-world missions with her team have somehow been compromised! She's too concerned with getting her way on this issue to be able to step back and see the big picture. That attitude is potentially far more dangerous to Team Sheppard and Atlantis than I think anyone anticipated at this point. But again, I'll discuss that more when we get to the episodes in question.


And back to Sparky for a moment, I'll give you a little two-word teaser for my breakfast fic: Drunken berries.

*cackles*

I agree with all of this also. I think it has been the repeated viewings of these early shows that has brought the inconsistencies to my attention. I never thought much about how Teyla behaved, but now I see that she was written very poorly right from the start. I always felt she lacked in the leadership department but was never able to put my finger on why. I'm beginning to think she, and all her people, just never understood the Earth folks no matter how close they became. She became friends with John very quickly, probably had an attraction to him and probably expected something to come of it. I can imagine how puzzled she must have been when once she joined his team, he started treating her the same as Ford and McKay. Not understanding the military, she would rightly have been confused. I'm thinking John dropped the ball in not explaining it to her sufficiently. Then she expected him to always let her get her way and again, was angry and confused when he sided against her. She seemed to understand why Elizabeth made the decisions she did, so I'm thinking she felt betrayed by John. I can see where it would be easy to think yourself into a coma with this, and it all comes back to badwritingbadwritingbadwriting. I can just imagine how the actors must have felt.

But, as the years went by, we saw time and again that the distance between the Athosians, especially Teyla, and the Earth people remained a yawning chasm. This is one of my main objections to Sheyla. They had little in common, neither of them seemed to want to make the sacrifice it would take to be together (Return I proves that), and only have Atlantis in common. But if they had tried to make a go of a relationship, that would not have been enough to make it work. And since I'm talking about fictional characters, I'd add that the writers would not have been able to make it work without totally changing their characters. If that should happen, all we would have would be bad fanfic.

Whereas, Sparky would work on all levels. *looks around* What? Me prejudiced? Am not. *snickers*

[ShipperWriter]

Shipper Writer - such a cute story!!!

Great thoughts on Suspicion, everyone! I thought just about everyone was written a little poorly in that one. But this was written by Mullie and Mallozzi so what do you expect? You have Bates with his ship anvil that he kept saying about John's "personal feelings" for Teyla making him not do the right thing. Another tell instead of show. I would rather SEE someone's personal feelings than be told they are there.

Elizabeth seems to be making sense but then she lets Bates be all belligerent to the Athosians (and to not pronounce Athosians correctly ).

And then Teyla is understanding of Elizabeth's position but being all snotty towards John.

None of it made much sense.

I agree with all of this also. I think it has been the repeated viewings of these early shows that has brought the inconsistencies to my attention. I never thought much about how Teyla behaved, but now I see that she was written very poorly right from the start. I always felt she lacked in the leadership department but was never able to put my finger on why. I'm beginning to think she, and all her people, just never understood the Earth folks no matter how close they became. She became friends with John very quickly, probably had an attraction to him and probably expected something to come of it. I can imagine how puzzled she must have been when once she joined his team, he started treating her the same as Ford and McKay. Not understanding the military, she would rightly have been confused. I'm thinking John dropped the ball in not explaining it to her sufficiently. Then she expected him to always let her get her way and again, was angry and confused when he sided against her. She seemed to understand why Elizabeth made the decisions she did, so I'm thinking she felt betrayed by John. I can see where it would be easy to think yourself into a coma with this, and it all comes back to badwritingbadwritingbadwriting. I can just imagine how the actors must have felt.

But, as the years went by, we saw time and again that the distance between the Athosians, especially Teyla, and the Earth people remained a yawning chasm. This is one of my main objections to Sheyla. They had little in common, neither of them seemed to want to make the sacrifice it would take to be together (Return I proves that), and only have Atlantis in common. But if they had tried to make a go of a relationship, that would not have been enough to make it work. And since I'm talking about fictional characters, I'd add that the writers would not have been able to make it work without totally changing their characters. If that should happen, all we would have would be bad fanfic.

Whereas, Sparky would work on all levels. *looks around* What? Me prejudiced? Am not. *snickers*

^^^^^^^^
*see bolded*

Ditto.

So, guess what? I actually kept my word!

Chapter 23 of "Of Detectives and Doctors" is up. And watch out for the curve ball at the end ... it might give you a black eye. Hint, hint ...

Gotta hit the sack, but I should have "Trading Places", my M*A*S*H inspired fic, up tomorrow.

Night!

[Scary Kitty]

Maybe they don't have clams on Lantea. Ever think of that?

Maybe John and Elizabeth have been busy "getting to know each other".

... And that's my contribution for Smutty!Tuesday!

Whereas, Sparky would work on all levels. *looks around* What? Me prejudiced? Am not. *snickers*

*more snickers* No, really?

But seriously though, while the early episodes do suffer a lot from inconsistent writing (and I think ShipperWriter's got it right about that being due in part to the writers simply trying to get comfortable with the new series/stories; you can see that in the actors' performances as well, though the actors seemed to click a lot faster than the writers did!), it's interesting to note how the character alliances are continuing to solidify in spite of the writing. The Sheppard-Weir alignment (at least on a professional level) is clearly in evidence in Suspicion, even though the episode seems to have been intended to lean in a different direction (on multiple levels). Once again, I guess it proves the old adage about how the best laid plans never survive the first engagement.

[mandogater]

Heh, mine was MIA for almost a year, once!

Hope it comes back soon!

It's been teasing me with a line or two here and there. Right now I'm stuck on how to Sparkyfy the Outcast segment of that giant crossover I keep talking about. *head deck*

Congrats on snagging season 1!!

[Southern Red]

*more snickers* No, really?

But seriously though, while the early episodes do suffer a lot from inconsistent writing (and I think ShipperWriter's got it right about that being due in part to the writers simply trying to get comfortable with the new series/stories; you can see that in the actors' performances as well, though the actors seemed to click a lot faster than the writers did!), it's interesting to note how the character alliances are continuing to solidify in spite of the writing. The Sheppard-Weir alignment (at least on a professional level) is clearly in evidence in Suspicion, even though the episode seems to have been intended to lean in a different direction (on multiple levels). Once again, I guess it proves the old adage about how the best laid plans never survive the first engagement.

Maybe the fact that the actors clicked so quickly is the reason the characters seemed to have relationships beyond the bad writing. I know that Joe has said numerous times that his scenes with Torri were among his favorites because he seldom got one on one scenes of any length with anyone else. And we know about their little political discussions, so that adds to it also. I've heard that Rachel and David became good friends also, along with various other off work combinations. I know that must have added to the screen chemistry.

But, if we pretend we don't know anything about what was going on behind the scenes, we see a lot of missing parts that, understandably, were too trivial to actually cover on screen. Though a line here or there would have helped explain the McShep friendship, why Ford did such an about face and now seems to idolize John, why Teyla went from trusting her new friends completely to suspicious and confused by their treatment, and maybe how Carson is kind of the center around which they all revolve.

I would like to have seen mention of an Athosian assimilation project, perhaps headed by Heightmeyer, along with a cultural sensitivity *barfs at the politically correct term* seminar, perhaps conducted by Teyla, explaining their culture to the others. Again, a line of dialogue would have sufficed.