Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[mandogater]

That's quite a crack fic! It sounds brilliant. There's a Castle thread. I bet you could post it there.

Thanks! Know I just have to figure out the middle of the fic for the idea you gave me earlier about the Lemming in a civil war era dress. Managing to put Sparky in it was easier than I thought it would be. Now I just have to figure out how to link it all togther.

[JT-2]

Thanks! Know I just have to figure out the middle of the fic for the idea you gave me earlier about the Lemming in a civil war era dress. Managing to put Sparky in it was easier than I thought it would be. Now I just have to figure out how to link it all togther.

LOL! This could be the crack fic to end all crack fic!

[Scary Kitty]

Pictures? Well, if I can find my own full-size John then sure.

Heh!

Yeah, they're both pretty obvious there, aren't they?

Obvious and ridiculously CUTE.

I found a bunch more also. I'm not sure how big they are, but they're not as good as the ones with the border. We'll see how long we can make this last.

FOREVER!!!

Must go in search of crackalicious pics...

LOL! This could be the crack fic to end all crack fic!

Sure sounds like it, doesn't it? mandogater, you will let us know when it's done, right?

[gateraid]

Weighing in on the engagement, I find it hard to believe that with all the time that was spent in Antarctica prior to the mission, that nobody would know that she had a fiance back on Earth by the time of Home. Even then, as far as we know on-screen, she didn't mention him to anyone. It's possible she was engaged, but it seems unlikely. I don't see the goodbye video as being a sign either - it was likely there because it was an expedient way to get through the exposition. Perhaps the Air Force figured that, given he was a doctor, he'd be familiar with the concept of confidentiality. And in all likelihood, they probably figured they'd have to tell a few people, in case the expedition members never returned.

I might as well conclude the season 1 balcony scenes.

And now, we have reprogrammed them to suit our needs it's time for Tales from the AU




The Sparky indoor balcony

The Eye



Am I standing right, Ma'am?

I'll let you know when you've got it right, Major



Back outside for Before I Sleep




They should both fit in here with room to spare. I'll tell Carson to prep for the procedure immediately




Still outside during The Gift




Why are you telling me this in person? Wouldn't an e-mail have been just as effective?

[JT-2]

gateraid, I do love you.

[JT-2]

I think this was the only season 2 balcony moment. Of course season 2 had the desk sitting moments and that's even more fun than the balcony.



Hihoplastic on LJ had this to say about the scene:

2. In Which John Tries to Make Elizabeth Jealous
John: I got the thing, the other thing, and I almost got THE GIRL. That means I might have had SEX with her. You're jealous, right? Right?
Elizabeth: *eyebrow*
John: ....No! No, no, no there was no girl. Nope. No girl at all. Hum-de-dum.
Elizabeth: *smirks*
John: *eats out of her hand. happily*

That's always how I've viewed that scene.

[Scary Kitty]

Hi lurkers, we see you! Don't be shy, come out and play with us!

Darnit gateraid, you've done it again! My personal fave has to be the Before I Sleep AU.

I think this was the only season 2 balcony moment. Of course season 2 had the desk sitting moments and that's even more fun than the balcony.

I love the desk sitting moments! Squee!

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/n635/mathgirl1248/Stargate%20Atlantis/tower.png

Hihoplastic on LJ had this to say about the scene:

2. In Which John Tries to Make Elizabeth Jealous
John: I got the thing, the other thing, and I almost got THE GIRL. That means I might have had SEX with her. You're jealous, right? Right?
Elizabeth: *eyebrow*
John: ....No! No, no, no there was no girl. Nope. No girl at all. Hum-de-dum.
Elizabeth: *smirks*
John: *eats out of her hand. happily*

That's always how I've viewed that scene.

He's such a silly puppy, isn't he?

[gateraid]

Hi lurkers, we see you! Don't be shy, come out and play with us!

Darnit gateraid, you've done it again! My personal fave has to be the Before I Sleep AU.

Me too. I don't think the other two were funny per se, but they probably happened on the show. You know, the show were Weir (yes, they referred to her as 'Weir' to her face) was frigid and unpleasant to be around, Sheppard had a thing for Teyla, Teyla had a thing for putting things inside Sheppard, Rodney was unbalanced and overly neurotic, Jen was convincingly competent, Sam and Jack had been seeing each other for years and her command of Atlantis was only based on the fact that it would put her outside 'his' chain of command and legitimise their non-secret relationship..........this is why I have a problem with bad fanfic /tangent

I think this was the only season 2 balcony moment. Of course season 2 had the desk sitting moments and that's even more fun than the balcony.

http://i1143.photobucket.com/albums/...ntis/tower.png

Hihoplastic on LJ had this to say about the scene:

2. In Which John Tries to Make Elizabeth Jealous
John: I got the thing, the other thing, and I almost got THE GIRL. That means I might have had SEX with her. You're jealous, right? Right?
Elizabeth: *eyebrow*
John: ....No! No, no, no there was no girl. Nope. No girl at all. Hum-de-dum.
Elizabeth: *smirks*
John: *eats out of her hand. happily*

That's always how I've viewed that scene.

There's a lot I could write about that episode, and the season in general, but it would result in an 'anti/C & M' theme, so I'll try to limit my criticism to just sparky in order to keep it on topic.

Assumptions

* sparky was never going to happen (I refer to a canonised romantic relationship)
* sheyla was going to happen (I refer to a canonised romantic relationship, somewhere near the end of the show's run)
* shep was going to have a few flings along the way, given that i) he's the lead, ii) he's into chicks & iii) he's not a frakking monk

General observations

What you've written above illustrates the ultimate fail of this scene. It's meant to show that Sheppard has 'done' the blonde. The man has urges, and she was certainly willing. Even if he'd used protection, it's not like she'd have known what it was (I'm not advocating it, merely pointing it out) so he could quite easily have given her what she wanted without giving her what she needed.

The way that balcony scene comes across makes it seem like he's playing it down, like he doesn't want to hurt her feelings. And I say hurt her feelings because there were any number of ways he could have said it without giving off that impression. He didn't have to carve a notch in his belt right in front of her, but he could have been more boastful than he was. Why did he downplay it if he didn't think she'd be hurt? Was it because she'd think less of him as a man?

If we're to go with the intended ship of the show, that scene should have been with Teyla. Given that she was on the mission, she'd at least have had to know what the questionably gay butler's plan was. If anyone should have been jealous, or even a little bit offended, it should have been her.

I know one of the reasons that that scene was Shep/Weir was due to filming constraints - two people, probably second unit, it could be done any time. Also, it probably brought the focus back to Atlantis, which a Shep/Teyla scene mightn't have. But the way this was done, it gave (me) the wrong impression.

Added to that, there are added scenes which make it quite clear he didn't service the princess. I haven't seen them. To be honest, if they were included, I would really have to question his motivations for the refusal - was it Sheyla related, Sparky related, or (more likely, given the refusal) McShep related - which may have been why they were cut, so that any ship element was removed. If I were writing it, I would have cut the whole 'you're gonna be king' reveal and simply had him sleep with her. I can handle the ship weathering a few storms before coming back to port, especially when this one was more like a freak wave.

Ultimately for me, this episode fails with badwritingbadwritingbadwriting. I gather Elizabeth was meant to go with them (which makes sense, given that it was identical to Atlantis and an easy ep to add her into, as well as multiple science teams). I don't really know why they cut her out and changed the script. A possible theory is that it would've presented two options to the royals - Shep sleeps with the blonde and becomes king, or Weir is impregnated by the king and becomes Queen, both of which are kinda icky. Disregarding those disturbing images (although, maybe they thought Shep/Weir would've been able to get out of any arrangement by saying they were married, lol), it's a fail on including all characters where there was an easy opportunity to do so, and it's a fail on clearly illustrating which ship they were going to hang their hat on.

Edited to add: I understand why they edited this episode the way they did (with respect to cutting out the 'Shep tells Othos that he didn't sleep with the blonde' scene). It's so that we don't know one way or the other if he actually did sleep with her, which is also the impression one gets from the balcony scene looking at the transcript in isolation. 'Get' can also mean 'kept' in the context of what they were talking about, rather than 'did'. I wonder if they wouldn't have been better off to nix the balcony scene altogether, given that they didn't really clear anything up. In fact, they kinda made it worse (for them, not for us)

[Scary Kitty]

Me too. I don't think the other two were funny per se, but they probably happened on the show. You know, the show were Weir (yes, they referred to her as 'Weir' to her face) was frigid and unpleasant to be around, Sheppard had a thing for Teyla, Teyla had a thing for putting things inside Sheppard, Rodney was unbalanced and overly neurotic, Jen was convincingly competent, Sam and Jack had been seeing each other for years and her command of Atlantis was only based on the fact that it would put her outside 'his' chain of command and legitimise their non-secret relationship..........this is why I have a problem with bad fanfic /tangent

*snerks* Oh yeah, that "other feed" that's being broadcast via a pirate signal from the Matrix, right?

I bow in homage of your analysis of The Tower; those are all great insights about why, if TPTW really had intended to go in a certain direction ship-wise, they utterly failed with this episode.

Ultimately for me, this episode fails with badwritingbadwritingbadwriting. I gather Elizabeth was meant to go with them (which makes sense, given that it was identical to Atlantis and an easy ep to add her into, as well as multiple science teams). I don't really know why they cut her out and changed the script. A possible theory is that it would've presented two options to the royals - Shep sleeps with the blonde and becomes king, or Weir is impregnated by the king and becomes Queen, both of which are kinda icky. Disregarding those disturbing images (although, maybe they thought Shep/Weir would've been able to get out of any arrangement by saying they were married, lol), it's a fail on including all characters where there was an easy opportunity to do so, and it's a fail on clearly illustrating which ship they were going to hang their hat on.

I always figured that Weir wasn't involved because she does not have the ATA gene. Remember how Otho made it clear that only those with the gene were allowed inside the Tower? This was why Sheppard was carted off to the Tower by Otho and the guards, but Teyla and Ronon were left in the village (and had McKay been there, he would've pinged Otho's scanner and been carted off to the Tower along with Sheppard). I'm guessing that TPTW decided it would be a waste of time to have Weir along on the mission only to leave her cooling her heels in the village and unable to do any of her diplomatic kung-fu. *shrugs*

[mandogater]

Sure sounds like it, doesn't it? mandogater, you will let us know when it's done, right?

Plan is to finish it between loads of laundry and watching college football later today and then find someone to beta it before posting.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

pic spam i did a couple of years back.

Rodney are you sure it worked?
I'm Like 80% certain....


RODNEY!
Okay I am 100% Positive it worked now if you'll excuse me i'll go tell her the good news....
NO! (softly) no.... I'll Do it....

(he walks off)

okay....

(later on....)


Are you Certain Rodney Got all of the nanites out of me?
he's... fairly certain but you know Rodney and that man's ego....
yeah.... so what will happen to me now.
Well Woolsey's talking with the IOA and so far it's not looking so good it's looks like you'll be transferred back to the SGC but who knows. and For What's it worth Elizabeth....It's good to have you back.
It's good to be back, John.

[gateraid]

I apologise if this doesn't make a lot of sense, I'm typing this up in a half time break.

*snerks* Oh yeah, that "other feed" that's being broadcast via a pirate signal from the Matrix, right?

There's two. One is the fan fiction feed that I quoted above (everything I quoted was stuff I've actually read - I need a better search filter ), another is the foreign one on the previous page where Weir got in a huff with Oberoth because he wouldn't give her any ZPMs, then ordered the extermination of the Asurans.

I bow in homage of your analysis of The Tower; those are all great insights about why, if TPTW really had intended to go in a certain direction ship-wise, they utterly failed with this episode.

I am reminded of the time that Eri13 posted her meta-analysis of Epiphany, then six months later we analysed a pic from said episode with surprising insight. What I posted was a bit of an aside to my thoughts on the episode, some of what I said (based on the aired version and my interpretation of what they wanted us to think after it) is quite off topic, and some will cause arguements. As an aside to that aside, it's amusing to me that this is another example of cutting scenes that may (I say may, because in this case the specific one, if any, is unclear) have supported ship - the other is the ones we were talking about a few pages back, the Vega/Keller 'how you doin' scene.

I always figured that Weir wasn't involved because she does not have the ATA gene. Remember how Otho made it clear that only those with the gene were allowed inside the Tower? This was why Sheppard was carted off to the Tower by Otho and the guards, but Teyla and Ronon were left in the village (and had McKay been there, he would've pinged Otho's scanner and been carted off to the Tower along with Sheppard). I'm guessing that TPTW decided it would be a waste of time to have Weir along on the mission only to leave her cooling her heels in the village and unable to do any of her diplomatic kung-fu. *shrugs*

In relation to getting her into the tower, I'm sure they could have fudged it by saying she had to be there because she was the boss. That said, I've only heard it was their plan to have her imprisoned with Carson, so it's only guessing based on speculation and rumour

pic spam i did a couple of years back.
http://forum.gateworld.net/attachmen...1&d=1259091643
Rodney are you sure it worked?
I'm Like 80% certain....

http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=19084
RODNEY!
Okay I am 100% Positive it worked now if you'll excuse me i'll go tell her the good news....
NO! (softly) no.... I'll Do it....

(he walks off)

okay....

(later on....)
http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=19086
http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=19085
Are you Certain Rodney Got all of the nanites out of me?
he's... fairly certain but you know Rodney and that man's ego....
yeah.... so what will happen to me now.
Well Woolsey's talking with the IOA and so far it's not looking so good it's looks like you'll be transferred back to the SGC but who knows. and For What's it worth Elizabeth....It's good to have you back.
It's good to be back, John.

You're overthinking it mate.



Guess what John - I'm not wearing any underwear



'Lizabeth, this is not the time to be joking about that. At least let me shoot out the cameras first

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

You're overthinking it mate.

http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=19086

Guess what John - I'm not wearing any underwear

http://forum.gateworld.net/picture.p...ictureid=19085

'Lizabeth, this is not the time to be joking about that. At least let me shoot out the cameras first

of course, how silly of me. i forgot lately that's it's been gutter central here.

[gateraid]

Tales from the AU, the continuing drama....




What the hell do you want? And get the **** off my desk jarhead





Look *****, you nagged me to come here, at least pretend to be interested in what I have to say. Why aren't you writing this down like any good secretary would do???




What they actually meant:


I know, I know, you've already been briefed on this, but I thought it was worth coming in here just to make sure you knew.

There are perfectly good chairs you could have sat on, instead of my desk

Right you are, that'd be much more fitting

You're not moving

I hadn't noticed

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

Tales from the AU, the continuing drama....


http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...teraid/cdt.jpg

What the hell do you want? And get the **** off my desk jarhead

http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/...eraid/cdt1.jpg

Look *****, you nagged me to come here, at least pretend to be interested in what I have to say. Why aren't you writing this down like any good secretary would do???


What they actually meant:


I know, I know, you've already been briefed on this, but I thought it was worth coming in here just to make sure you knew.

There are perfectly good chairs you could have sat on, instead of my desk

Right you are, that'd be much more fitting

You're not moving

I hadn't noticed

lol that's pretty funny.