Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Bama]

Lot of good fanfic in recent weeks. Some links compiled for you guys:


http://www.livejournal.com/community/swficathon/

http://www.fanfiction.net/l/1833/14/2/1/2/0/995/997/1/

http://www.fanfiction.net/l/1833/13/2/1/2/0/995/997/1/

http://www.fanfiction.net/l/1833/12/2/1/2/0/995/997/1/

http://www.livejournal.com/community/john_elizabeth/

http://sachi.arrr.net/atlantis.html

http://www.sheppardweir.com/fanfics/

[ubiquitous]

Oh, and Big Boy, on the Sam/Jack 'go nowhere thing'...

TPTB actually 'fixed' their 'mistake' with that one this time. Although John and Elizabeth are 'commanders' together of Atlantis, Elizabeth being a civilian has no military rank. She only has to 'worry' about ethics and perception.

Time can fix ethics and perception.
Retirement or job change was the only thing that could fix Sam and Jack's situation.

And Elizabeth would probably eventually be able to take a more practical approach to it, realising that these things are going to happen in a small community such as Atlantis. But I think she's still wait for John to make his move first.

[Easter Lily]

As much as Torri resembles Katherine Hepburn, I think she'd actually be better suited for Audrey Hepburn's roles, if we're doing a little casting here. She just has that grace – I could really imagine her as the lead in Roman Holiday, which is one of my absolute favorites.

Torri reminds me of Jean Arthur... not so much in looks but in the way she carries herself and relates to her male co-stars... Jean Arthur was a terrific actress who was in 3 major Frank Capra films in the 30s and 40s. She had that lovely mix of toughness and vulnerability and had that "maternalistic/protective" feel to her.

Morena Bacarrin from Firefly reminds me of Audrey Hepburn... both have the same elegance and elfine-like quality.

[Bama]

And Elizabeth would probably eventually be able to take a more practical approach to it, realising that these things are going to happen in a small community such as Atlantis. But I think she's still wait for John to make his move first.

Yes. Time will prove to be Elizabeth and John's greatest ally in regard to their ever deepening relationship. The 'time' reasoning is two-fold in my mind. First, on a professional level, as time passes and both John and Elizabeth find themselves more and more entrenched in the problems of the Pegasus galaxy, they will gain invaluable experience as the commanders of their respective areas. On an expedition such as Atlantis, that experience would never be taken lightly by the powers in charge on Earth due to the very nature of the mission's importance to all mankind. With each successful mission and discovery, John and Elizabeth will eventually be respected as experts in two jobs that would be extraordinarily difficult for someone else to do as well. So, you're the president and you're pissed at Elizabeth for some asundry reason? Who are you going to call in to replace her after several years that would have a clue? As the purseholder, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot not to mention losing valuable experienced leadership and knowledge that might mean the difference in Earth becoming a yummy snack for Wraiths. Same for John. So your're the head of the Pentagon and John Sheppard does something a bit 'out of bounds' that you don't agree with. Who you gonna call? Just who else would be as qualified or experienced to deal with the Wraith or the Genii or other asundry Pegasus galaxy enemies, much less a civilian commander and a team of scientists. They just don't do that sort of training in any Earthly military unit I know of. So, Sheppard, though he sets his own rules in the Pegasus galaxy to an extent, would have such experience and knowledge over anyone you could send in that it would be foolish and foolhearty to replace him over something short of shattering.

The second idea of time you mention is very important as well and that's the 'socialization' of Atlantis. It will, over time, be thought of as it's own country. I've mentioned the idea of the Atlantis members eventually giving up their nationality patches simply because it would be a show of unity and a signal that indeed a new world has been borne again. These people aren't Earthlings any longer really. John and Elizabeth, leading the parade, have made their choices. As time goes on they will both call common sense into effect and realize openly that they don't ever intend to return to Earth and that any sort of personal happiness they desire must, by neccessity, be taken where it can be found in their new home. I think we'll eventually see couples and families being a part of this great city and at that point, what logic dictates that the commanders should not find happiness as well as all other 'citizens' of the city?

[Bama]

Torri reminds me of Jean Arthur... not so much in looks but in the way she carries herself and relates to her male co-stars... Jean Arthur was a terrific actress who was in 3 major Frank Capra films in the 30s and 40s. She had that lovely mix of toughness and vulnerability and had that "maternalistic/protective" feel to her.

Morena Bacarrin from Firefly reminds me of Audrey Hepburn... both have the same elegance and elfine-like quality.

Jean Arthur? Hmmm...interesting comparison and yeah, I could see the resemblance in style a bit. I can picture Jean's character drunk and swinging from the tree in 'Guys and Dolls'. She was really at the top of her game in that film.

[gwenhwyfar]

Yes. Time will prove to be Elizabeth and John's greatest ally in regard to their ever deepening relationship. The 'time' reasoning is two-fold in my mind. First, on a professional level, as time passes and both John and Elizabeth find themselves more and more entrenched in the problems of the Pegasus galaxy, they will gain invaluable experience as the commanders of their respective areas. On an expedition such as Atlantis, that experience would never be taken lightly by the powers in charge on Earth due to the very nature of the mission's importance to all mankind. With each successful mission and discovery, John and Elizabeth will eventually be respected as experts in two jobs that would be extraordinarily difficult for someone else to do as well. So, you're the president and you're pissed at Elizabeth for some asundry reason? Who are you going to call in to replace her after several years that would have a clue? As the purseholder, you'd be shooting yourself in the foot not to mention losing valuable experienced leadership and knowledge that might mean the difference in Earth becoming a yummy snack for Wraiths. Same for John. So your're the head of the Pentagon and John Sheppard does something a bit 'out of bounds' that you don't agree with. Who you gonna call? Just who else would be as qualified or experienced to deal with the Wraith or the Genii or other asundry Pegasus galaxy enemies, much less a civilian commander and a team of scientists. They just don't do that sort of training in any Earthly military unit I know of. So, Sheppard, though he sets his own rules in the Pegasus galaxy to an extent, would have such experience and knowledge over anyone you could send in that it would be foolish and foolhearty to replace him over something short of shattering.

The second idea of time you mention is very important as well and that's the 'socialization' of Atlantis. It will, over time, be thought of as it's own country. I've mentioned the idea of the Atlantis members eventually giving up their nationality patches simply because it would be a show of unity and a signal that indeed a new world has been borne again. These people aren't Earthlings any longer really. John and Elizabeth, leading the parade, have made their choices. As time goes on they will both call common sense into effect and realize openly that they don't ever intend to return to Earth and that any sort of personal happiness they desire must, by neccessity, be taken where it can be found in their new home. I think we'll eventually see couples and families being a part of this great city and at that point, what logic dictates that the commanders should not find happiness as well as all other 'citizens' of the city?

Yeah. Look at what happened in Seige 2 (or was it 1?) when they sent that other guy to replace Weir. He was totally clueless. John and Elizabeth are irreplaceable!

[Easter Lily]

Jean Arthur? Hmmm...interesting comparison and yeah, I could see the resemblance in style a bit. I can picture Jean's character drunk and swinging from the tree in 'Guys and Dolls'. She was really at the top of her game in that film.

Was she in Guys and Dolls? There's no mention of it in IMDB...

[Bama]

Was she in Guys and Dolls? There's no mention of it in IMDB...

Duh...my bad...thinking about Jean Simmons...

Guys and Doll is one of my faves though. Really showed a completely different side of Brando.

Jean Arthur of Mr. Smith goes to washington fame...totally different actress.

[gwenhwyfar]

'sigh' FF.net totally messed with my fic. It left part of what was supposed to be in italics un-italiced.(Yes I know that's not a word!) But nobody seemed to mind so...

I don't really see Torri (or Liz) in Breakfast at Tiffany's. The character was a prostitute. At least that is what I heard. My mom is the one who loved the movie. It bores me. Not really into the classics. I'm more of a disaster movie girl.

[Chrysalis]

Torri reminds me of Jean Arthur... not so much in looks but in the way she carries herself and relates to her male co-stars... Jean Arthur was a terrific actress who was in 3 major Frank Capra films in the 30s and 40s. She had that lovely mix of toughness and vulnerability and had that "maternalistic/protective" feel to her.

Morena Bacarrin from Firefly reminds me of Audrey Hepburn... both have the same elegance and elfine-like quality.

Elizabeth absolutely has a maternal/protective feel to her.

And I agree about Morena Bacarrin -- I'd die to look like her! She's too perfect!

[Bama]

Elizabeth absolutely has a maternal/protective feel to her.

And I agree about Morena Bacarrin -- I'd die to look like her! She's too perfect!

You ought to have seen her in Bliss...she wasn't lookin too protective or motherly there! LOL! Torri is just a good actress and that's what good actresses do-they come across as believable whether they're being asked to be tough and authoritative or sexy and smart. The really good ones can give us multi-layer looks with just a small amount of material.

[Easter Lily]

I don't really see Torri (or Liz) in Breakfast at Tiffany's. The character was a prostitute. At least that is what I heard. My mom is the one who loved the movie. It bores me. Not really into the classics. I'm more of a disaster movie girl.

Pretty much... But like Inara of Firefly... a high class one but not as nice...

[Melyanna]

Guh. I think I'll be forever in love with Marlon Brando because of Guys and Dolls. Thank goodness for whoever it was who decided not to dub him, because his rendition of Sky Masterson is just perfect.

Anyway, I've been thinking a lot lately about AUs, sparked by Hatcheter's terrific Spygate fic from a few days ago (and yes, Hatch, I'll be getting you feedback soon; the fic just set off a whole lot of thought for me). I started wondering what it is, exactly, that makes an AU work for readers, especially when it comes to Sheppard and Weir. (And by AU, I mean stories where the characters are placed in entirely different settings, not just "the Genii took over the city, and this happens next.") What do you look for in a well-constructed AU? What makes a new setting for familiar characters work?

[gwenhwyfar]

Guh. I think I'll be forever in love with Marlon Brando because of Guys and Dolls. Thank goodness for whoever it was who decided not to dub him, because his rendition of Sky Masterson is just perfect.

Anyway, I've been thinking a lot lately about AUs, sparked by Hatcheter's terrific Spygate fic from a few days ago (and yes, Hatch, I'll be getting you feedback soon; the fic just set off a whole lot of thought for me). I started wondering what it is, exactly, that makes an AU work for readers, especially when it comes to Sheppard and Weir. (And by AU, I mean stories where the characters are placed in entirely different settings, not just "the Genii took over the city, and this happens next.") What do you look for in a well-constructed AU? What makes a new setting for familiar characters work?

I'm not sure. I think Spygate is pretty great. I'd like to write for that but I'm not a member, nor know how to become one.
I guess a setting where they're in a different setting, yet act like themselves.

Well I'm off. Atlantis is coming on in a half hour. 38 minutes. Yay for the ship in the episode!

[SGLAB]

Guh. I think I'll be forever in love with Marlon Brando because of Guys and Dolls. Thank goodness for whoever it was who decided not to dub him, because his rendition of Sky Masterson is just perfect.

Anyway, I've been thinking a lot lately about AUs, sparked by Hatcheter's terrific Spygate fic from a few days ago (and yes, Hatch, I'll be getting you feedback soon; the fic just set off a whole lot of thought for me). I started wondering what it is, exactly, that makes an AU work for readers, especially when it comes to Sheppard and Weir. (And by AU, I mean stories where the characters are placed in entirely different settings, not just "the Genii took over the city, and this happens next.") What do you look for in a well-constructed AU? What makes a new setting for familiar characters work?

I consider if the characters still sound like the characters I'm familiar with. If the characters are given positions that fit what we know about them from the show. If they hadn't chosen the path they did in the show, what alternative path might they have made? Then I ask myself is the AU a believable choice for an alternative path? If yes it is generally something I'll like.

I read Magnificent 7 fanfic and while the show is set in the old west there is present day ATF AU that has become very popular in that fandom. The well written stories have the characters well in character and their respective positions seem to fit their personalities imo. Certain aspects of the characters are altered a bit to fit the time and position they hold.