Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[John_Sheppard]

Am really confused and angry and sad and hungry and well ... just confused.

Why have some people seen Conversion and others haven't? People have already written fics, this is madness. And now I know what happens and Im not sodden happy about it!

So just curious as to why some people got it and others didn't!

[Rubicon]

Am really confused and angry and sad and hungry and well ... just confused.

Why have some people seen Conversion and others haven't? People have already written fics, this is madness. And now I know what happens and Im not sodden happy about it!

So just curious as to why some people got it and others didn't!

And now I'm confused that you are confused!

Not everyone has seen the ep. because... they live all over the world?, RL issues kept them from their TVs? Seems like you need to be more careful around spoilers!


Your sig. is a.... drool!

[Bama]

Am really confused and angry and sad and hungry and well ... just confused.

Why have some people seen Conversion and others haven't? People have already written fics, this is madness. And now I know what happens and Im not sodden happy about it!

So just curious as to why some people got it and others didn't!

Hey JS,

I guess sometimes it comes down to 'some people' taking what they want from the episode. That is what the writers want fans to do in most cases. They would like to please everyone and right now, they are still in a an early enough position with the characters and ships and storylines to do that. It won't continue to always be that easy for them though as things get more complicated and characters become more complex. I think you could argue love vs. deep friendship Elizabeth showed for Shep in this ep and I think you could argue instinct vs. submerged 'want' regarding Shep and Teyla in the ep.

But imo, what you can't argue is *facts and history*. They just 'are'. And what we have as shep/weir shippers on our side is the FACT that they've spent the most time developing the Shep/Weir relationship. And the FACT that the eps that endangered Shep have followed Elizabeth around the most. And the FACT that the few times Elizabeth has been in peril of any sort that Shep's reactions were the ones focused on. Now, to me, that says a whole, heck of a lot without *any* projection of our 'wants' onto what we're seeing on the screen.

-Bama ; )

[Athenaktt]

On a related subject: some people have noted that they saw

Spoiler:

the Caldwell/Weir scenes in Conversion as Caldwell being interesting in Liz romantically. I didn't get any of those vibes - what did I miss?

When I first saw the

Spoiler:

Caldwell/Weir scene I thought that maybe he could have been flirting with Weir a bit, but I saw that it quickly turned to show his hidden agenda of wanting Sheppard's job again. And Weir saw right through that.

I guess that is why as the episode progressed got more snarkier and snarkier to Caldwell. I guess it also didn't help that 1.) she wasn't getting any sleep, 2.) Her sweety was turning into a wraith bug. 3.) Caldwell's been wanting Sheppard's job or her job since the beginning.

[Margali]

One of my cats has taken to chirping to birds and squirrels, even bugs. It's quite entertaining to watch![/QUOTE]

Mindy's pissed off the local squirrel population. I'd take her and her sister Tia in the yard to sniff around, eat grass and as Mindy likes to roll on the ground and get filthy. LOL She has a reoccuring chest congestion because her previous owner never took her to the vet so she had a chest infection that the congestion is a reminder of. She also has gingivitis from a previous owner infection and when we took her to be debabyfied they refused because the blackness in her ears was a massive mite infection. Funny when I asked the Buffalo Small Animal Hospital they said no worries and then Ellicott where we took them for spading since it was part of the deal said if it had gone on longer she'd of been deaf. I think she is somewhat since everytime she sees the squirrel in the yard she chases it. Almost caught it one day. I knew because I heard him scream hop up on the fence and then chatter angrily at Mindy as if scolding her. Ever since then whenever I'm under the tree where his nest is I keep getting smacked in the head with whatever. An acorn, piece of cardboard used for the nest, etc. Think he's pissed off at me? LOL

[mgbland]

He now has a life in Atlantis and a purpose where none seem to exist before. Why does he have this new life? He has it because Weir stood up for him and gave him the chance against the objections of Sumner and warnings from O'Neill. I think he realizes this and feels indebted to her. How would you feel if someone stood up for you, saw the good in you that others ignored? I know that I would want to prove myself to that person and let them know that their trust was not misplaced.

Now, where Weir is concerned......she gave Sheppard a chance and he did the very best with that chance and has more than proven himself. He has protected her and her expedition team on more than one occasion and was willing to make the highest sacrifice for them. Yet she continues to have to justify him to to the military. They were once again ready to write him off and place Caldwell in charge....quite honestly I'd be very short with the military brass too in defending him.

I guess I should spoiler protect most of this since it's both episodes haven't been aired overseas yet.

In Intruder, when Sheppard said something about not making it past captain,

Spoiler:

Weir replied that the opinions of those that matter the most disagreed with that. I was watching Intruder last night, and in that scene with Weir and Shep over a late night drink, and you could really see the affection. Weir's almost flirting with Sheppard.

Now look at the attitude of Colonel Jerk, I mean Caldwell.

Spoiler:

He wanted to be the ranking military, and Weir strong armed John into getting it. He gets a chance to take out a potential rival in the military structure and a potential rival for Weir's affections. Kill two birds with one stone. I'm really surprised he didn't try to overrule her when they decided to let Ticked Off Sheppard to on the mission to retrieve the eggs.

[Bama]

When I first saw the

Spoiler:

Caldwell/Weir scene I thought that maybe he could have been flirting with Weir a bit, but I saw that it quickly turned to show his hidden agenda of wanting Sheppard's job again. And Weir saw right through that.

I guess that is why as the episode progressed got more snarkier and snarkier to Caldwell. I guess it also didn't help that 1.) she wasn't getting any sleep, 2.) Her sweety was turning into a wraith bug. 3.) Caldwell's been wanting Sheppard's job or her job since the beginning.

Good synopsis there of what was going on. ; ) Like you, I figure he thinks she is attractive and of course, she *is* so there's no big mystery there. Shep looks at her a lot, lot too and has intense conversations with her constantly so I assume by the same reasoning, we can assume that he thinks she's good lookin too?

Elizabeth is a nice person and a caring woman. She doesn't seek out enemies but I think her professional background as it is has given her a lot of experience with people speaking in 'double talk' and hiding their true motives and agenda. Think she's dealt with a few political types in her time? Caldwell is high ranking military so that means he might as well be a politician. My Uncle was a one star in his forty year navy career and he says when you get above 'captain', it all becomes a political 'game' in the military.

So, her communication with him was cautiously friendly. I'm sure she'd like to extend an olive branch or pick up one from him if it's truly offered but she's leery of one being offered based on her own past experiences and what evidence she's seen from Caldwell's power plays already. For the most part, people slamming Elizabeth's actions in this episode are Weir haters who are anti-shep/weir as well. I'm biased toward her but I viewed little that could be criticized of her. She handled herself with grace, dignity and professionalism in the time of one of hardest moments she's had on Atlantis and facing the loss of the person she is the closest to.

-B ; )

[mgbland]

Colonel Caldwell has a problem being commander of the Daetalus (sp big time). There are literally no women he can hook up with. So, he's stuck with someone on the Atlantis Base out of the military structure. Also, he and EW are pretty close to the same age. Teyla's too young, and also an alien.

Unfortunately, where John is concerned, EW isn't too rational. See her reaction in Contagion when she realized John was infected.

Spoiler:

Just short of blind panic.

Also, a man as good looking and sweet as John Sheppard, and he didn't have a girl friend to leave behind on Earth. Makes you wonder why.

Edited to add:

I can't help wondering if the lack of a significant other may have something to do with his past, getting injured while on duty, or that black mark. Maybe the girl friend wanted an officer that was on the way up, and not one with black marks bumping the glass ceiling. OR, maybe he got seriously injured and she dumped him. Either would make anyone steer shy of relationships.

I love the scene in the Pilot where he was alone flipping a coin.

[Melyanna]

Conversion

Spoiler:

Personally, I didn't see Caldwell's interaction with her as flirty. Friendly, yes, but that's no big surprise. I think he'd like to be friends with her so long as it doesn't interfere with his agenda. And I also don't think he wants to get rid of either Elizabeth or John. Elizabeth's too good at what she does to get rid of her, and he'd have a hard time with the scientists and other non-military personnel if he tried to take over. He's also recognized John's abilities and familiarity with the Wraith, but just thinks he's too inexperienced to really run the military operations there. And who knows, maybe there's some truth to that. But there's a difference between offering friendly advice (which Caldwell may someday) and trying to usurp.

And on Critical Mass:

Spoiler:

I don't know where John falls on the issue of torturing a prisoner for information, or even if he knows about it. I suspect the latter is the case, as he's got a suspect of his own in all this, and he probably would have backed off her sooner had he known about this other person that Caldwell and Elizabeth have under lock and key. But even if he does, I have a feeling he'd side with Elizabeth. He was willing to experiment on the Wraith in Poisoning the Well because they couldn't feed him and keep him alive anyway. I suspect the situation here is vastly different, and John would probably find torture rather distasteful.

[mgbland]

Here's an odd thought about Caldwell. With the Ori doing its thing in the Milky Way, it may become necessary for Caldwell's ship to spend more time closer to home, especially since the Atlantis situation has gotten stabalized. That doesn't mean that the Daetalous can't make the trip from time to time, but in which case, John would become the ranking military commander again. No, full Colonel's to overrule him.

[Margali]

Totally agree and it seems with Conversion so do the writers. Interesting that Elizabeth had access to Sheppard's quarters and felt so comfortable just strolling in and even Caldwell seemed to note and hinted at maybe there being more then just a friendship between Sheppard and Weir. Loved that he was so worried for her safety. I know he'd be that way even with Rodney but it seemed it had an extra umph to it when he was telling her to leave because he wasn't safe to be around anymore. Conversion was definitely a Sheppard/Weir shipper bliss despite the kiss between Sheppard and Teyla there seemed more going on between Sheppard and Weir.

[Melyanna]

Here's an odd thought about Caldwell. With the Ori doing its thing in the Milky Way, it may become necessary for Caldwell's ship to spend more time closer to home, especially since the Atlantis situation has gotten stabalized. That doesn't mean that the Daetalous can't make the trip from time to time, but in which case, John would become the ranking military commander again. No, full Colonel's to overrule him.

Caldwell's only around occasionally. John is the commander of the military contingent on the base. Caldwell's presence doesn't change that; Caldwell is just the ranking officer when he's around. In theory, Caldwell would only override John in extreme circumstances. It's like an admiral being on a captain's ship. The admiral could start giving orders, but won't unless it becomes absolutely necessary, because it's still the captain's ship.

[mgbland]

Caldwell's only around occasionally. John is the commander of the military contingent on the base. Caldwell's presence doesn't change that; Caldwell is just the ranking officer when he's around. In theory, Caldwell would only override John in extreme circumstances. It's like an admiral being on a captain's ship. The admiral could start giving orders, but won't unless it becomes absolutely necessary, because it's still the captain's ship.

I was just thinking of the time in Runner when Caldwell,

Spoiler:

told John that Ford was a security risk, and he was duty bound to eliminate that threat. Of course, Caldwell never actually came out and gave him a direct order. I believe Shep said something like, "You're not saying what I think you're saying." To which Caldwell said "You didn't have a problem with mercy when it came to Col. Sumner." He never said, that's an order.

It seems to me that General Hammond cares a lot more about the people he works with than Col. Caldwell.

[Bama]

Also, he and EW are pretty close to the same age.

[/spoiler]

I don't know how 'close in age' Weir and Caldwell are 'supposed' to be because I don't know if Weir is supposed to be 34, 40 or 45. But Higginson is around my age-35ish. And Mitch is around my dad's age-58ish

[mgbland]

I don't know how 'close in age' Weir and Caldwell are 'supposed' to be because I don't know if Weir is supposed to be 34, 40 or 45. But Higginson is around my age-35ish. And Mitch is around my dad's age-58ish

Mitch was born in 1952, so that makes him 53. Weird, for some reason, I thought Higginson was in her 40s and JF is 39-40. But I think his character is between 35 & 40.

Haven't been able to find any birthdays on Higginson. I suspect that's because after a certain age, women stop publishing it.

Edited to add:

Can you do all the things Weir was supposed to accomplish by age 35?