Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[grasshopper]

I agree Bama, if Shep/Tey is all about about what they saw last night, let 'em go. Because I will take what we had between John/Elizabeth over stick fight lust any day.
And I want to ditto all the people who brought up the last scene between John and Elizabeth :

Spoiler:

When he says kill me now. Elizabeth's reactions are so telling. She drops her head and says/wispers John. Then he replys with his it would be better for the both of us. I think that scene alone (if I wasn't already way too into Shep/Weir) would convert me over!

The other thing this episode did was show that Elizabeth could have deep feelings for John and not let them override her ability to be a leader. I think most people say they cannot have a relationship because she is his boss and if something happened she would do what is best for John not Atlantis. I think this episode sunk that argument. And that is important if they are going to continue build a relationship between them.

And Bama, most of my family is in and around Gadsden, so I by proxy have to say Roll Tide!

[xkawaiix]

After thinking on this episode. . and probably thinking TOO much, I wondered how others would think on the following.

A good, male friend of yours, who you respect, maybe even secretly "like", suddenly walks in on you, under the influence of alcohol, drugs, whatever, and pushes you around, speaks to you inappropriately, shoves you against a wall, and kisses you violently. A few weeks later he comes up to you and apologizes and things go back to normal. Would you EVER want to have ANY romantic involvement with this person down the road? I may keep this person as a "sort-of-friend, or even work with them, but I would never trust them in a loving way.

This whole episode just seem to bring Shep/Teyla to a halt for me.

Or am I over analyzing this??

Spoiler:

Hehe, I asked my mom, who's neutral, and she said she'd be offended and if he really liked her then she'd expect him to go out of his way to make her happy after he's no longer under the influence instead of apologising and expecting things to go back to normal. And like I said before, there's nothing stopping them from starting something.

[Athenaktt]

After thinking on this episode. . and probably thinking TOO much, I wondered how others would think on the following.

A good, male friend of yours, who you respect, maybe even secretly "like", suddenly walks in on you, under the influence of alcohol, drugs, whatever, and pushes you around, speaks to you inappropriately, shoves you against a wall, and kisses you violently. A few weeks later he comes up to you and apologizes and things go back to normal. Would you EVER want to have ANY romantic involvement with this person down the road? I may keep this person as a "sort-of-friend, or even work with them, but I would never trust them in a loving way.

This whole episode just seem to bring Shep/Teyla to a halt for me.

Or am I over analyzing this??

If I was in that situation, my friendship with that person would never be the same again. Like I would still be friend with him, but romantically...I'd have to step and thing about it. Because I would always remember that side of him. Even if you know it's out of character and influenced by something esle, there is always that lingering fear that it's possible for him to let that other side of him out.

But either way I'm with FP on this.

Spoiler:

Teyla looked way too relieved that John wanted everything to go back to normal, for any other possible pursiuant of Sheppard. Besides every scene she was with Ronon they were giving each other little adorable looks.

[astronomicalchick]

If I was in that situation, my friendship with that person would never be the same again. Like I would still be friend with him, but romantically...I'd have to step and thing about it. Because I would always remember that side of him. Even if you know it's out of character and influenced by something esle, there is always that lingering fear that it's possible for him to let that other side of him out.

But either way I'm with FP on this.

Spoiler:

Teyla looked way too relieved that John wanted everything to go back to normal, for any other possible pursiuant of Sheppard. Besides every scene she was with Ronon they were giving each other little adorable looks.

The only trouble I have with this line of reasoning is that if I were Weir I wouldn't want him either if that's how he behaved with another woman...

[xkawaiix]

The only trouble I have with this line of reasoning is that if I were Weir I wouldn't want him either if that's how he behaved with another woman...

Hm... I wonder if they'll even tell anyone.

[grasshopper]

Playing devil's advocate here...
I don't think it wasn't Shep's fault. And to hold him responsible is not really fair. Would I remember what happened, yes, but if I loved him I would also have to forgive. And I think that is the point. There is no romatic love between Shep and Tey so it really shouldn't be an issue.
And not to belittle violence against others, but it was just a kiss. Granted a caveman kiss that scared her, but a kiss none the less.

[Athenaktt]

The only trouble I have with this line of reasoning is that if I were Weir I wouldn't want him either if that's how he behaved with another woman...

Yup, but I guess I was responding more to FP question about influence by drugs, alcohol and earthly things.

Just hope that

Spoiler:

alien retrovirus infection isn't something that happens often.

But I'm not basing my belief for the end of Sheppard/Teyla on that moment alone, but basically from the rest of the episode.

In the whole episode, it seemed that Elizabeth was the only one willing to go into John's room and talk to him and practice her "bedside manners." Even when a big 6-foot Marine was like "I wouldn't go in there." Elizabeth just said, "I'll be fine" and didn't even hestitate to enter his room.

I just felt that everyone else was afraid of John...then again who can blame them? John could out fight Teyla, out run Ronon, and singlehandedly shattered a window in Elizabeth's office.

Teyla's reaction was bascially like the same as everyone else, they wanted to help him, because he was a friend, but they were also afraid of him. And even if they didn't mean to, they kept a certain distance from him, while John had to tell Elizabeth a couple times to stay away from him or kill him. Because he was endangering them both.

[Bama]

Yup, but I guess I was responding more to FP question about influence by drugs, alcohol and earthly things.

Just hope that

Spoiler:

alien retrovirus infection isn't something that happens often.

But I'm not basing my belief for the end of Sheppard/Teyla on that moment alone, but basically from the rest of the episode.

In the whole episode, it seemed that Elizabeth was the only one willing to go into John's room and talk to him and practice her "bedside manners." Even when a big 6-foot Marine was like "I wouldn't go in there." Elizabeth just said, "I'll be fine" and didn't even hestitate to enter his room.

I just felt that everyone else was afraid of John...then again who can blame them? John could out fight Teyla, out run Ronon, and singlehandedly shattered a window in Elizabeth's office.

Teyla's reaction was bascially like the same as everyone else, they wanted to help him, because he was a friend, but they were also afraid of him. And even if they didn't mean to, they kept a certain distance from him, while John had to tell Elizabeth a couple times to stay away from him or kill him. Because he was endangering them both.

Spoiler:

That's what the ep keeps coming back to for me. SHE faced him down. SHE went to him when no one else dared. SHE refused to be afraid of him. SHE trusted him not to harm her. Like I said, if I hadn't believed that Elizabeth loved him before this one, I'd sure as heck believe it now. John's feelings still aren't as clear to me. You could make a case that he's attracted to Teyla on a visceral level but he's reactive toward Elizabeth on an emotional one. He has some high emotions in the ep for sure but with him being so out of character due to the bug bite, it was hard to tell much of anything for certain in his interactions with Elizabeth or Teyla. Of course, that's what the writers wanted. This one was all about watching their reactions and actions. That's where the money is for now.

-B ; )

[snoopoony]

Spoiler:

You could make a case that he's attracted to Teyla on a visceral level but he's reactive toward Elizabeth on an emotional one.

Love that sentence Bama. I have not seen the episode yet

Spoiler:

but after all I've read about it, it just reinforced the idea I had : John's not clear with himself about what he feels for Elizabeth. It's certainly much more easier to understand that we're physically attracted by someone but it's much more confusing when we're feeling something for someone which is not lust. And I think that's the case with John. I'm not saying that he is not attracted to Elizabeth of course, but this attraction occured first of all on an emotional level. That's how we see it in the show at least. It's on this base that TPTB are playing with us.
But I think it much more interesting to observe the emotional confusion of two people standing for each other than well... natural physical attraction. I'd love to see this episode just to see John's facial expressions. I'm sure they could tell us a lot.

[Bama]

One more quick post and then I'm off to make corndip for my Bama football par-tay tonite. ; )

I'm found a really good post a sec ago on LJ and thought I'd share it along with my response to it and see what you guys think.


From: sheri47

The more I think about this ep the more I wonder if TPTB are just simply "testing the waters". THe series is still fairly new in comparrison to SG1 and yet it has its fanbase already. I personally see that entire ep as a "lets see what the fans think...Shep/Wier? Shep/Teyla? Teyla/Ronan?"

Spoiler:

And, as far as that kiss went, to me, the reaction at the end where they both seemed to want to sweep it away said it all. John and Liz showed alot of real emotion in this ep, never once taking it away, again...that says it all

From:bamax

I've had the SAME thought. I think that's exactly what may be going on. They're tossing out buoys to see which ones will float. From the looks of sheer numbers on the net, ShepWeir seems to have a ton of support. Even most of the male viewers don't seem to be repulsed by the idea at some point as long as it doesn't overwhelm things.


Enjoying reading your thoughts all...

-B ; )

[JxHarrison]

I've just watched 'Conversion' and I loved it!

Spoiler:

As far as I'm concerned, the kiss was in no way romantic - especially as, at the end, it was lumped in with Wraith!Shep's other dastardly actions - eg. attacking the security detail.

The thing that I think Sheppard/Teyla shippers have to be pleased with more than anything is the fact that she called him 'John'. How long's Elizbeth being doing that?

I really loved Weir in this episode. She was everything a good friend (never mind anything else) should be and when you look back, the support she showed John will mean more than one OOC, retro-virus induced kiss.

I'm loving the Shep/Weir dynamic this season so far. They've become close, as Caldwell noted - they are friends. But then the tension that streams from the screen offers us a tantalising glimpse of what might yet be to come.

Atlantis is DA BOMB!

[FoolishPleasure]

The only trouble I have with this line of reasoning is that if I were Weir I wouldn't want him either if that's how he behaved with another woman...

Quit making logical points, or I'll have to smack you around.

[Kazan]

OK, had a chance to digest and think about it and my thoughts on conversion

Spoiler:

It was so much more than I had expected and took quite a different tack than I had anticipated. I guess I was thinking it would be a very heavy Shepcentric episode and on one level of course it was. But, as many have already said, it was also a fascinating study in characterisation. What I was so not expecting but completely loved, was the amount of time and insight we got into Elizabeth and in particular her feelings for John on all different levels.
All I can say is wow - seriously, to me it was far more John and Elizabeths story/episode than anything else. The kiss was just a single alien influenced kiss. Poor Teyla was terrified and much as I'm not a Sheyla fan, I actually thought it was well done. The end scene was to me a complete closure of that particular possible ship. She was utterly and totally relieved that they agreed to forget it. I can see them actually moving forward and becoming stronger friends now. And did anyone else keep catching all the little Ronon / Teyla looks and moments?

So strange as it might seem, I am actually so encouraged and happy with the episode. It moves things onward nicely in so many ways.
There can be no doubt that Elizabeth has strong feelings for John. Carson sees it, Caldwell most definately sees it and even Rodney, Teyla and Ronon get it. All the way through it is Elizabeth who is there, it is her that takes on the responsibility to speak with and be with John.
But of all this, I think most importantly, at some point Elizabeth had at to admit to herself that her feelings were more than just close friendship. What will be fascinating to see coming up will be how she deals with that realisation and what impact it has on her as a person and in her relationship with John. I can't help but think that TPTB deliberately left out the talk that Elizabeth and John must at some point be having about what happened. Maybe we will see all that touched upon in the rest of the season - I hope so. John himself said to Telya that he was remembering what he had done. I have no doubt that he would be looking to speak with Elizabeth.

Finally just to say I thought TH put in a fantastic performance. She really managed to convey the sense of worry, ansgt and growing desperation. JF was of course excellent as always and the make up was done brilliantly.
Oh and I am really warming to Ronon - loving all the little off hand comments and side remarks!
Well thats my ramble over with!

[Vixen]

Spoiler:

The other thing this episode did was show that Elizabeth could have deep feelings for John and not let them override her ability to be a leader. I think most people say they cannot have a relationship because she is his boss and if something happened she would do what is best for John not Atlantis. I think this episode sunk that argument. And that is important if they are going to continue build a relationship between them.

I very much agree.

Spoiler:

When he told her to try again and get the eggs, she refused not wanting more lives to be lost. And on top of that the way he had her against the wall, he could've very easily either injure her seriously or kill her but she didn't back down.

Torri blew me away. I knew she was awesome but this was wow! Joe also impressed me (loved those lenses btw. I think I'm gonna get a pair ). Excellent acting on both sides.

Yeah, others definitely see that there is something happening there between these two. And the way she pressed Carson to find more? When Carson asked her to talk to him, he knew that John would be more "comfortable" if Elizabeth talked to him instead and that John would maybe confide in Elizabeth at how this whole thing was freaking him out (which he did). Hey she may have sucked at the whole bedside manners thing but he appreciated the effort.

"You two are pretty close, aren't you?" Bingo! For all the dust that rose up in the air over the Teyla and john kiss, that sentence alone described this entire episode for me.

Caldwell (love that character) could no doubted use this incident against Elizabeth as he seemed quite observant the entire time. But kudos to Elizabeth at how she handled him.

She risked her safety each time she went to see John and she knew it. She probably also knew that he would not hurt her as long as some of the human side of him was still in there.

As Hatch mentioned, nice use of those special effects.

Oh right, there was also a kiss. I think it was nicely done and certainly not the beginning of a relationship from my pov. In the end where Teyla assured him about the kiss, the biggest clue for me about this thing between those two was the music and:
"Give it no further thought."
"Good. I won't."

The End

Some of the best E/J moments ever were in Conversion. Loved the tension. Loved the angst. Great episode. I really enjoyed it.

[Southern Red]

Excellent analysis by all.

Spoiler:

I asked my husband what would he do if he knew he might be a danger to me. He said he would do everything he could to get away from me and keep me safe. And if I wouldn't leave he would. He also said from the male perspective the kiss and the choke hold were equal. (Somebody finally gets shoved up against a wall, and it's wraith related. Pffft.) Different hormones in a "normal" man maybe, but considering John's influence probably the same. It was pretty obvious in this episode that many others see the special bond between J and E. I found it odd that Carson let Eliz be the one to tell John details of a medical nature. Isn't that his job? The line from John about "both of us" was also a "whoa." The 2 of them seem to be becoming as one in people's minds. Some over on the Conversion thread see this as one sided on E's part, maybe consciously only on her part, but you will never convince me that John Sheppard doesn't think about her way more than he would think about anybody else who was his boss.Yes, I definately think TPTB are playing us, but I also think they will listen to what we think. After all how could they ignore such intelligent analysis?