Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[gateraid]

For something completely different. There's a new story on CD and it's wow... dark, angsty AU with a not so happy ending (not completely unhappy either). So be warned if you only read stories with purely happy endings. The story is The Murder of Elizabeth Weir by Bil.

WTH? Murder? Yeah I know, I'm supposed to be gone, but I got changed then figured by the time I wandered down there, paid the cover charge, casually sauntered in, the night would be over (things shut at 3am here) so why bother? Yep, lazy. But my last few outings have ended with [even more OT]

Spoiler:

much older woman grabbing my ass in one bar, then grabbing me in another in an effort to make me dance, during which I dragged an apparently heavy table over and spilled many a drink (then she has the nerve to say that I have to buy her another when I clearly wasn't interested pffft); having a guy grab my ass later that same week; tripping on the curb and taking skin off my wrists and knee, with swelling on the knee later in the week; headbutting the door of my bosses wife's car (she was the sober driver)

[KrisRussel]

WTH? Murder? Yeah I know, I'm supposed to be gone, but I got changed then figured by the time I wandered down there, paid the cover charge, casually sauntered in, the night would be over (things shut at 3am here) so why bother? Yep, lazy. But my last few outings have ended with [even more OT]

Spoiler:

much older woman grabbing my ass in one bar, then grabbing me in another in an effort to make me dance, during which I dragged an apparently heavy table over and spilled many a drink (then she has the nerve to say that I have to buy her another when I clearly wasn't interested pffft); having a guy grab my ass later that same week; tripping on the curb and taking skin off my wrists and knee, with swelling on the knee later in the week; headbutting the door of my bosses wife's car (she was the sober driver)

Yup... murder... but like I said, not a totally bad ending... Just go and read it

Hmm, hearing all the things that happened to you, it's prolly best that you stayed home

[Anuna]

Yup... murder... but like I said, not a totally bad ending... Just go and read it

Hmm, hearing all the things that happened to you, it's prolly best that you stayed home

Grrh, I don't think I can handle that fic right now.

[KrisRussel]

Grrh, I don't think I can handle that fic right now.

No, like I said, it's really really dark...

This is prolly more for you right now: Savoring the moment by ninja_girl
Small little fic made of squeee!

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i swear you guys talk about some really random stuff on this forum. VPL whats how big his package is? *puts his foot in his mouth*

[KrisRussel]

i swear you guys talk about some really random stuff on this forum. VPL whats how big his package is? *puts his foot in his mouth*

Not random... everything we talk about has to do with Sparky... otherwise we'll get modded again...

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

i know i was just saying.

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

so whats with that reunion debacle and u guys not like carter's command?

[Lt.Colonel John Sheppard]

a little off-topic here but what do u think is worse :losing your son to a gun shot wound or losing the love of your life or losing someone to their ex-boyfriend only to find out before she died that the ex boyfriend did some damn distateful things to her? (the last one is my own personal experience._

[Anuna]

so whats with that reunion debacle and u guys not like carter's command?

It's not that I (or, as far as I know) most of us here dislike Carter, especially people who did watch SG - 1 too (I did): It's because we have the feeling that Carter was taking Elizabeth's place.... un - rightfully. I mean, it's hard to separate the plot, which was full of holes, from what we saw as unfair treatment of TH. It's really hard to buy "it's a risky operation" argument from carter - from Carter of all people who wanted to do similarly crazy things, only to save Jack on couple of occasions - and then Shep to actually agree with her. It's out of character for both of them because - Carter knows what's like to be a prisoner to replicators and what's like to have someone you obviously care for imprisoned, and then also, it's VERY OCC for John to give up on a rescue instead of disobeying because, this is John we're talking about.

[Scary Kitty]

Good morning, Sparkies!

It's not that I (or, as far as I know) most of us here dislike Carter, especially people who did watch SG - 1 too (I did): It's because we have the feeling that Carter was taking Elizabeth's place.... un - rightfully. I mean, it's hard to separate the plot, which was full of holes, from what we saw as unfair treatment of TH. It's really hard to buy "it's a risky operation" argument from carter - from Carter of all people who wanted to do similarly crazy things, only to save Jack on couple of occasions - and then Shep to actually agree with her. It's out of character for both of them because - Carter knows what's like to be a prisoner to replicators and what's like to have someone you obviously care for imprisoned, and then also, it's VERY OCC for John to give up on a rescue instead of disobeying because, this is John we're talking about.

This. It's the hypocrisy of Carter's actions that makes it so ridiculous. She gets to pull off crazy hopeless rescues, but she won't let John do the same? And John just takes it? Bad writing.


Oh, and before I forget... T-minus 4 hours and 22 minutes to post-a-thon!

[KrisRussel]

This. It's the hypocrisy of Carter's actions that makes it so ridiculous. She gets to pull off crazy hopeless rescues, but she won't let John do the same? And John just takes it? Bad writing.


Oh, and before I forget... T-minus 4 hours and 22 minutes to post-a-thon!

Bad writing is putting it mildly...

Yay!! post-a-thon

[Scary Kitty]

Sleeping on something can totally make you realize something. Carter should have ok'ed the mission to get Elizabeth back if only because Carter knows what it's like to be one of their prisoners. She knows what they do to their prisoners, she knows what they do to get information from them. If only for that reason she should have said to John: "Go save her and get her back."

That's something else that pissed me off about Carter on Atlantis. Damnit, she was captured and tortured by Replicators. Not just mind probed, but tortured. Granted, she was held by the MW Replicators rather than the Asuran Replicators, but she knows better than anyone what they're capable of doing to a person. Even if they didn't rescue Elizabeth, even if we never got to see Elizabeth and Carter come face to face after such a rescue, we should've seen Carter speak of her own experiences and express some sympathy for Elizabeth's plight. It would've been a fabulous opportunity for Tapping to have a really great character moment for Carter, but no, TPTW blew it again.

And the thing is, they could have done a failed rescue attempt without actually including Torri if they chose to. My preference would have been a rescue attempt in which Weir ('our' Weir) dies, which would a) cement Shep as a griever & b) cement Carter as leader. Have eps 4x03 & 4x04 devoted to that, and never speak of Weir again if they so chose. Whatever. It'd be better than leaving at least two gaping plotholes

Spoiler:

ie Franibeth in space & the 'real' Elizabeth

Yes! Even a failed rescue attempt without ever seeing Torri/Weir would've been better than nothing.

But I have to disagree with you about killing Weir off. It would've sucked just as much as killing the Clone!Team or spacing FRANibeth did, because TPTW just don't know how to do it respectfully.

So very true. Which of course brings us back to the discussion if Franibeth is or isn't the real Elizabeth. *headdesk*
Of course if they would have killed off Elizabeth right away, we wouldn't have all the amazing fics that are out there now. Yes there would have been fix-it fics too, but prolly not nearly as many as there are now.
Oh, and if they would have killed off Elizabeth, there would have been a valid reason for Teyla to sort through her stuff mere hours after it happened and then I think that maybe I could have accepted it that John helped her with it. I say maybe, cause I don't know if he'd be up to it. I don't know if he could do it so easily.

I'm now firmly in the 'FRANibeth wasn't the real Elizabeth, just another copy' camp.

Fix-it fics for the win.

[KrisRussel]

That's something else that pissed me off about Carter on Atlantis. Damnit, she was captured and tortured by Replicators. Not just mind probed, but tortured. Granted, she was held by the MW Replicators rather than the Asuran Replicators, but she knows better than anyone what they're capable of doing to a person. Even if they didn't rescue Elizabeth, even if we never got to see Elizabeth and Carter come face to face after such a rescue, we should've seen Carter speak of her own experiences and express some sympathy for Elizabeth's plight. It would've been a fabulous opportunity for Tapping to have a really great character moment for Carter, but no, TPTW blew it again.

Exactly it would have made a really good, prolly angsty, character moment for Carter. Just ignoring it was a stupid move from tptw.

But I have to disagree with you about killing Weir off. It would've sucked just as much as killing the Clone!Team or spacing FRANibeth did, because TPTW just don't know how to do it respectfully.

True... if we have to go by the other times they killed Weir, we can be sure they would have treated her actual death with just the same lack of respect.

I'm now firmly in the 'FRANibeth wasn't the real Elizabeth, just another copy' camp.

Fix-it fics for the win.

So, what about the fix-it-fics that rescue Franibeth and McKay and/or Carter and /or Carson figure out how to recreate her body and transfer her consciousness to it?

[Scary Kitty]

Exactly it would have made a really good, prolly angsty, character moment for Carter. Just ignoring it was a stupid move from tptw.

I know! They made such a big deal about bringing Carter to Atlantis, and then they don't really do anything with her. This could've been a great opportunity to give her something cool. But noooo... What a shame.

So, what about the fix-it-fics that rescue Franibeth and McKay and/or Carter and /or Carson figure out how to recreate her body and transfer her consciousness to it?

Oh, they're cool too. But I must admit,

Spoiler:

I am quite intrigued by Mallozzi's hints that the real Elizabeth could still be alive.