Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Southern Red]

Good morning, Sparkies!



I want the red heart smiliey. Of course, there are several other ship threads that have it too, so it's not like we'd look unique, but, darnit, it's the principle of the thing. A red heart. That's so Sparky.



I do the same thing. The Sparky thread is the only thread I'm subscribed to that has any really regular activity anymore, so it's easy to keep track of.

SR, I can't see your picspam! They've all been replaced by those evil "this image or video has been moved or deleted" pics.

Sorry you can't see it. I dunno why not. It was screencaps from the scene in Weir's office from TOR when John is looking at the computer with her. I have them talking about how the Sparky thread is much busier today and how getting modded must have rejuvenated everybody. Then John goes off to give Kanaan a golf lesson and Lizzie heads out to order Victoria's Secret underwear with Teyla. *grin*

[Scary Kitty]

This is part of an ongoing fic I'm writing (not sure if I'll ever post the entire thing though), but this part is about 38 minutes and it says what he wanted to say:

Spoiler:

She watched him from the darkness as he lay on the infirmary bed. He looked quite peaceful now, so different from when Carson was trying to resurrect him. In that instant she had prayed to every God she could think off to spare his life and now she thanked them again for doing just that.
“I know you’re there.” He said, his eyes still closed. “I won’t bite... hard.”
She laughed softly and stepped away from the shadows, moving next to his bed.
“How are you?” She asked and he opened his eyes.
“Good, considering I died today.”
She slightly flinched and turned her gaze away from him.
“Sorry.” He quickly apologized at her reaction.
“Don’t be. I’m glad you survived this.”
“You and me both.”
“I was wondering... Now that it’s just the two of us... what is it that you really wanted to tell me?”
He looked at her for a few silent moments, clearly torn between telling her the truth and telling her a little white lie. Letting out a quiet sigh, he decided that it was better to be honest with her.
“I wanted to thank you.”
“Thank me?” She asked surprised and he nodded.
“For giving me a chance at a time nearly everyone else had given up on me. For trusting me to lead the military here and for giving me the chance to proof that I could be more than just ‘gene-boy’.”
She smiled gently at him. “You’re welcome, John.”
Giving her a short nod, he closed his eyes and pushed himself deeper into his pillow.
“Go to sleep, Elizabeth.” He murmured.
Her smile grew. “Goodnight, major.” And she walked out of the infirmary.

Awww, that's awesome! And I can totally see that being what he really wanted to say!

SK and Anuna, you're both so right. If John would have done it, to him it would have been like he was giving up on her and I don't think he ever could do that. I'm pretty sure he still thinks Ford is out there somewhere too.
I don't think I ever would have accepted it if John did it, especially not while he constantly chants 'we don't leave our people behind' to everyone. Teyla on the other hand was a good friend with Elizabeth and although it must have hurt her too on some level to clear her quarters and even though I'm sure she'll never truly give up on Elizabeth either, it's different.
It's hard to explain or put into words, but it just feels different.

I think it may have to do with the culture in the Pegasus Galaxy. The Athosians, the Genii, the Hoffans, and so many others, have been living under constant threat from the Wraith for millennia. Time and again, they've had loved ones ripped away from them so abruptly, and yet they have to pick up the pieces and move on, because their own people's continued survival against the Wraith depends on it. They may not have a lot of time to mourn, because they're too busy running, hiding and surviving. So Teyla's simply doing what needs to be done, just like John and the others are, compartmentalizing their feelings and their duties until they have a chance to breathe. At least, that's my take on it.

[Scary Kitty]

Sorry you can't see it. I dunno why not. It was screencaps from the scene in Weir's office from TOR when John is looking at the computer with her. I have them talking about how the Sparky thread is much busier today and how getting modded must have rejuvenated everybody. Then John goes off to give Kanaan a golf lesson and Lizzie heads out to order Victoria's Secret underwear with Teyla. *grin*

They looked so cute in that scene together.

And the captions are hysterical! Victoria's Secret, indeed. John and Kanaan have been very good boys!

[Southern Red]

I was doing some capturing for a vid today from Reunion and was struck by the balcony scene between John and Carter. The talk about Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff and compartmentalizing feelings made me think of this. Noone ever gets used to loss, but Teyla has been losing those she loves all her life and has a system for dealing with it. John has had his share of loss but it has been more intense over the last few years and particularly hard to deal with in regards to Elizabeth. Think about the fact that this is one of the first things he does after Carter takes command.

Transcript:

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: You know, for most of us, this thing with Elizabeth isn’t over yet. She’s still out there.

CARTER: You really believe there’s a chance she’s still alive?

SHEPPARD: There’s only one way to know for sure.

CARTER: You’re suggesting we go back.

SHEPPARD: We should have done it sooner, but the I.O.A.’s been stonewalling me. Now that you’re in charge, maybe you can give me the green light.

CARTER: I’m sorry, but it’s too dangerous.

SHEPPARD: It’s no more dangerous than the last time we went in.

CARTER: Circumstances were different, plus you had an advantage then that you don’t have now.

SHEPPARD: Well, she’s the one who gave us that advantage. The only reason we’re here is because of what she did.

CARTER: Believe me, I know, and I don’t like the idea of leaving someone behind any more than you do. But I am not about to send you or anyone else on a suicide mission. Now, you come to me with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding and I’ll consider it. Short of that, John, I’m sorry. There’s nothing I can do.

SHEPPARD (reluctantly): Fair enough.

And the woobie face. How can you kick that puppy?

Spoiler:

[Eri13]

*joins you in cynical bliss and passes over a mojito*

I don't think any of the DVD features has ever been more than 20 minutes. But yeah, it had better be long. Not some piddly little 5 minute blurb. And they'd better not try to censor Joe's comments.

$19.99. That's what I paid for Seasons 1-3. Of course, Torri was in all of those instead of just a handful, so they'd have to drop the price more to make it worth my while. I'm still going to wait to see if they do a series box set like they did with SG-1, with additional features that weren't released in the individual season sets. And if they don't, maybe I'll just get Torri's episodes on iTunes.

That's what I did. That way the only profits I added to were the ones that were Weir-centric. (And John centric if you count Vegas). My way of showing my economic preference in terms of shows.

Sorry you can't see it. I dunno why not. It was screencaps from the scene in Weir's office from TOR when John is looking at the computer with her. I have them talking about how the Sparky thread is much busier today and how getting modded must have rejuvenated everybody. Then John goes off to give Kanaan a golf lesson and Lizzie heads out to order Victoria's Secret underwear with Teyla. *grin*

I can't see them either and it sounds really funny...

[Scary Kitty]

That's what I did. That way the only profits I added to were the ones that were Weir-centric. (And John centric if you count Vegas). My way of showing my economic preference in terms of shows.

I haven't bought the next two SGA novels after Mirror, Mirror for the same reason; they're set in Season 4 and therefore, there's no Weir. No Lizzie, no money from me.

I can't see them either and it sounds really funny...

Even without the pics, the captions are damn funny indeed!

[Scary Kitty]

I was doing some capturing for a vid today from Reunion and was struck by the balcony scene between John and Carter. The talk about Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff and compartmentalizing feelings made me think of this. Noone ever gets used to loss, but Teyla has been losing those she loves all her life and has a system for dealing with it. John has had his share of loss but it has been more intense over the last few years and particularly hard to deal with in regards to Elizabeth. Think about the fact that this is one of the first things he does after Carter takes command.

Transcript:

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: You know, for most of us, this thing with Elizabeth isn’t over yet. She’s still out there.

CARTER: You really believe there’s a chance she’s still alive?

SHEPPARD: There’s only one way to know for sure.

CARTER: You’re suggesting we go back.

SHEPPARD: We should have done it sooner, but the I.O.A.’s been stonewalling me. Now that you’re in charge, maybe you can give me the green light.

CARTER: I’m sorry, but it’s too dangerous.

SHEPPARD: It’s no more dangerous than the last time we went in.

CARTER: Circumstances were different, plus you had an advantage then that you don’t have now.

SHEPPARD: Well, she’s the one who gave us that advantage. The only reason we’re here is because of what she did.

CARTER: Believe me, I know, and I don’t like the idea of leaving someone behind any more than you do. But I am not about to send you or anyone else on a suicide mission. Now, you come to me with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding and I’ll consider it. Short of that, John, I’m sorry. There’s nothing I can do.

SHEPPARD (reluctantly): Fair enough.

And the woobie face. How can you kick that puppy?

Spoiler:

Poor puppy. All he wants is to get his Lizzie back.

[Eri13]

I was doing some capturing for a vid today from Reunion and was struck by the balcony scene between John and Carter. The talk about Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff and compartmentalizing feelings made me think of this. Noone ever gets used to loss, but Teyla has been losing those she loves all her life and has a system for dealing with it. John has had his share of loss but it has been more intense over the last few years and particularly hard to deal with in regards to Elizabeth. Think about the fact that this is one of the first things he does after Carter takes command.

Transcript:

Spoiler:

SHEPPARD: You know, for most of us, this thing with Elizabeth isn’t over yet. She’s still out there.

CARTER: You really believe there’s a chance she’s still alive?

SHEPPARD: There’s only one way to know for sure.

CARTER: You’re suggesting we go back.

SHEPPARD: We should have done it sooner, but the I.O.A.’s been stonewalling me. Now that you’re in charge, maybe you can give me the green light.

CARTER: I’m sorry, but it’s too dangerous.

SHEPPARD: It’s no more dangerous than the last time we went in.

CARTER: Circumstances were different, plus you had an advantage then that you don’t have now.

SHEPPARD: Well, she’s the one who gave us that advantage. The only reason we’re here is because of what she did.

CARTER: Believe me, I know, and I don’t like the idea of leaving someone behind any more than you do. But I am not about to send you or anyone else on a suicide mission. Now, you come to me with a plan that has even an outside chance of succeeding and I’ll consider it. Short of that, John, I’m sorry. There’s nothing I can do.

SHEPPARD (reluctantly): Fair enough.

And the woobie face. How can you kick that puppy?

Spoiler:

GAH! I actually remember liking Reunion because of that and Ronon's scene with Sam where he defends Elizabeth. (LOVED THAT!). But, yeah, that entire dialogue, I think, was Joe's contribution--when he did that interview where he said he suggested putting into the script about getting Elizabeth back, this is the scene I believe he was directly referring to. I actually think it was the only time they have a dialogue like this.

[Southern Red]

GAH! I actually remember liking Reunion because of that and Ronon's scene with Sam where he defends Elizabeth. (LOVED THAT!). But, yeah, that entire dialogue, I think, was Joe's contribution--when he did that interview where he said he suggested putting into the script about getting Elizabeth back, this is the scene I believe he was directly referring to. I actually think it was the only time they have a dialogue like this.

And after this they just dropped it leaving us to believe that for the first time in his life John Sheppard actually followed orders. No wonder Joe thought they didn't get his character.

[gateraid]

If this makes no sense it may be coz i might have to hit post mid-post. NB don't spill coke on your keyboard

<snip>
Heh. People who love each other behave in that way and there's no doubt about it. I have the feeling that SGA writers, as being bunch of boys, seem to think that love is something embarrassing and should make you blush straight up to your hairline, and I mean, we can't make the cool hero Sheppard say "I love you" to someone, can't we? It would be so uncool.

Guys, go watch Bill Adama. There's nothing uncool about that fella, and yet he gets to love someone.

Well, sometimes they do behave that way, but the thing is, given how much time they actually spend together (a lot) they should get over it in the first year. Or at least only get funny when talking about their feelings towards each other.

Re Adama, I'm not so sure

spoilered coz it includes up to season 4.5 (as far as I have seen)

Spoiler:

the thing is, they underplayed that ship IMO. I know he'd kissed her previously, but when she was on the base ship and he stayed behind to wait for her, saying that he couldn't live without her, i was flabbergasted. Don't get me wrong, I loved it, but i thought it was a bit of a stretch. Perhaps it had something to do with that ep where they were all boxing, and Adama and Chief Tyrell fought, then he concluded by saying that everyone had become too close to each other. And then they called each other Madame President and Admiral "*sniff*

Hi All, I'm gonna be away in Victoria for the next 4 days so I wont be online at all... fic will be updated upon my return.. (or if I could be bothered tapping out 1000 odd words on the PDA...).

Feel free to misbehave while I'm not around! I look forward to much reading through the pages of this thread when I get back

I say this coz I haven't watched the news in ages, but are those fires not out yet?

I think she saved him

Spoiler:

in that final Michael episode, did she not? Where she pushed Michael off the tower?

These writers are all about John being the hero, however. If John wasn't sacrificing himself for the others, then he was rescuing others. Nobody really ever rescued John. Even if you think back to the episodes where John is 'in trouble' (38 Minutes, Conversion, Epiphany, Common Ground, Coup d'etat, etc) it's more a collective group effort to help him than one person saving his skin.

The easygoing vibe of Sparky I completely chalk up to Joe and Torri. I think they maintained the consistent friendly relationship throughout each episode. If you think about it, when you're given a line like "I suppose you're here to get your head examined" Elizabeth doesn't have to lean into him with an amused expression. She could completely cross her arms and say that line in a harsh, leaderlike tone, being 'not amused'. I think all lines like that were very much actor interpretation, if the Teleplay didn't use descriptors.
But many of the flirty lines, and close moments, I give more to the writers, which are then heightened by the actors. The Real World, for example, was good to start with, but was heightened by Joe and Torri's interpretations.



Your keyboard dying is so sad! But glad to see you around.



We'll miss you, but have fun!

That's it in a nutshell. It's not what you say, it's how you say it. I don't think that the teleplay would have used those descriptors. After all, Sheyla is the preferred ship. Even an 'I love you' doesn't necessarily sound believable depending on how it is said.

And thanks, btw

Hi Folks

This is just a friendly reminder...while it is definitely understandable that in SGA there are going to be comparisons regarding the Shep/Weir ship versus the Shep/Teyla ship.... please bear in mind that this is a thread to discuss the Shep/Weir ship and appreciate it and comparisons can get out of hand and be better posted in a thread with the topic of Non-shipping Shep/Teyla.

If you find that your discussion is leaning more towards the topic of Shep/Teyla and why you feel this ship does not work, we invite you to posts these opinion in the appropriate thread and allow those here that would prefer to keep to the topic do so.

Thanks
TameFarrar
GateWorld Moderator

But, but *woobie face* isn't that how you discuss things? By comparing them to something else? It wouldn't be much of a discussion otherwise.

Good afternoon, Sparkies!



Sheppard switched to the black BDUs in The Ark, so it was several episodes before Season 4's "militarization."

As for Carter not wearing BDUs, I'd say ddc's explanation is right on for how TPTW probably justified it. But frankly, I thought she should've worn BDUs as well... she's a military officer, and as she outranks Sheppard, that made her the commander of Atlantis's military forces while she was in Atlantis, so she should've been in military uniform. That change was more than a little jarring after seeing her for so many years in BDUs.

That's why i mentioned it. She was still a military officer (although you'd wonder but that is a seperate issue - NB Carter and AT fan here).

<snipped>As for a breakdown what others consistantly call each other most of the time, with an occaisional writer flub:

<snipped>

I'm not sure who mentioned earlier about Rodney referring to Shep as Sheppard. I don't so much see that as a Rodney thing, it's a guy thing. There are some guys I refer to by their last names, but would classify them as good mates. It depends on how it sounds.

Yes, but we're not allowed to talk about her. Evidently.

We can only squee about Sparky, never mention any other relationship that either John or Elizabeth has or doesn't have and/or how it relates to their relationship with each other.

We are being watched by some people who must not have anything else to do. Or maybe they're secretly Sparky shippers and just like hanging out here. Yeah, that's it.

Hello everyone *waves* darn I need to post in here more...thought I'd throw some picspam around

You all might not like picspam and if you don't let me know!

I like picspam. Can't speak for everyone else

Glad to hear that you all like picspam And thanks!

Ahhh!!! My eyes!! I accidentally clicked the sheppard/teyla ship thread and then realized...wait a min that's not weir They have the same smiley icon and they both start with 'Sheppard' it's easy to get confused

They're actually quite nice. I hang out there occassionally too. Still optimistic even after TPTW screwed them over so much

That episode....you know, the writers may say all they want that they didn't write Sparky into the show. But what the heck was this if not Sparky hints? There was a LOT of Sparky hints in this episode. Did the writers seriously not understand how this looked?

Exactly. Less flirting than that scene goes on in a bar on a saturday night to achieve a result.

Teyla is a Sparky shipper.

That fic was perfect. It should have gone just that way.



That's a tidbit I got from re-reading the beginning of this thread. We had some posters around here with good inside connections who said at the time that the ship focus changed shortly after the pilot aired and the Joe/Torri chemistry was the reason. Also the emergence of the huge Sparky shipper group may have influenced decisions. Why they backed off later is anybody's guess but I agree that TPTB were not unaware of the Sparky.

What?! An added scene? OMGWTFBBQMICE!!

That always baffled me but I don't think it's entirely true. Just recently in answering a question, I forget exactly what, JM said that they each watched the end results multiple times both before and after adding the effects. I think it's just that Sparky was something they didn't want to see, so they ignored it. It's like a phenomenon I used to notice when I taught. A kid would write a book report and read it to the class. Okay fine. Then I would read it to do the grade and find the kid had read what he wanted it to say, not necessarily what was actually on the page. Does that make sense? That's why it's hard to beta read your own fics. It's some sort of mind/eye lack of connection or some such.

I think its a bit like them saying that they don't listen to the fans, but then saying (on the odd occassion that they do something we like) that 'the fans have been crying out for more of this'. And yes, they didn't want sparky. They wanted to be ship-teasers.

Sparky picspam. For some reason I got distracted by the 6th pic. Don't look.

Sparky's are a talented bunch

Yeah,

Spoiler:

I think there was something about that on JM's blog a little while ago, but Ivon Bartok (the guy who puts together all the DVD features) wrote on his blog/twitter a couple of days ago that it was going to happen and the title for the feature.

And yeah, it's been long overdue. Too bad they never bothered to do a feature on Torri while she was on the show.

Looking forward to that. But they would have called Weir's something gay like 'Doctors Orders'

I was doing some capturing for a vid today from Reunion and was struck by the balcony scene between John and Carter. The talk about Teyla packing up Elizabeth's stuff and compartmentalizing feelings made me think of this. Noone ever gets used to loss, but Teyla has been losing those she loves all her life and has a system for dealing with it. John has had his share of loss but it has been more intense over the last few years and particularly hard to deal with in regards to Elizabeth. Think about the fact that this is one of the first things he does after Carter takes command.
<snipped>

And the woobie face. How can you kick that puppy?

Spoiler:

While I liked that scene, it ripped me that it was almost a copy of the scene in Rising when they argued over going back for Sumner. Except that they actually did. And I refuse to believe that he wouldn't have gone back without the IOA's permission, long before Carter had even turned up.

[Scary Kitty]

Okay Sparkies, it's that time of week again... T-minus 24 hours to our next post-a-thon, featuring Misbegotten and Irresistible! I'd like to get a head count of who is going to be able to participate, so please sound off and let us know if you'll be here.

[Eri13]

^snippity snip snip for...

Looking forward to that. But they would have called Weir's something gay like 'Doctors Orders'

*spits coke on the keyboard*

[Eri13]

Okay Sparkies, it's that time of week again... T-minus 24 hours to our next post-a-thon, featuring Misbegotten and Irresistible! I'd like to get a head count of who is going to be able to participate, so please sound off and let us know if you'll be here.

I'm supposed to be playing a tennis match at that time, but it's supposed to be ugly tomorrow, so I may be indoors. I shall try if I am barred from the courts.

[Scary Kitty]

GAH! I actually remember liking Reunion because of that and Ronon's scene with Sam where he defends Elizabeth. (LOVED THAT!). But, yeah, that entire dialogue, I think, was Joe's contribution--when he did that interview where he said he suggested putting into the script about getting Elizabeth back, this is the scene I believe he was directly referring to. I actually think it was the only time they have a dialogue like this.

Reunion was all right, because it kept Elizabeth's spirit alive on Atlantis. Every time someone mentioned her name, you could just feel her ghost in the room. Delicious. And yes, I'm also pretty sure that scene between John and Carter was the one Joe was talking about.

And after this they just dropped it leaving us to believe that for the first time in his life John Sheppard actually followed orders. No wonder Joe thought they didn't get his character.

*snerks*

While I liked that scene, it ripped me that it was almost a copy of the scene in Rising when they argued over going back for Sumner. Except that they actually did. And I refuse to believe that he wouldn't have gone back without the IOA's permission, long before Carter had even turned up.

And then there's that scene in SG-1's New Order where Weir and Carter face off over SG-1 going to find the Asgard to get help for O'Neill. Carter's been in John's shoes before, and it burned me that she could turn around and be so callous about it just because it wasn't "her people." Like it was a slap in Weir's face to keep John and his team from making the attempt in some sort of petty revenge against Weir for trying to stand in Carter's way. I'm sure that wasn't really the intent, but with the past history between Weir and Carter, it's hard not to think of it that way.

[Scary Kitty]

Looking forward to that. But they would have called Weir's something gay like 'Doctors Orders'

*spits coke on the keyboard*

*snerks*

I would've called it something like 'Diplomatic Maneuvers.'