Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[KrisRussel]

So, this Saturday's post-a-thon will be Trinity and Instinct, starting at our usual time of 2pm Pacific Time. Next Saturday (January 31) will be Conversion and Aurora.

I hope I can make it, but I dunno when I'll be home as it's my dads birthday party and I don't know how long we'll stay there... should be home for the second one for sure though... I hope... but you'll see me appear when I get home

[Southern Red]

Yep, I like stories that push characters out of their 'comfort zone' and give them a chance to grow in unexpected ways.

Speaking of being out of your comfort zone. Vegas spoilers

Spoiler:

Under what circumstances do you guys think Elizabeth would have joined the military? If she is the medic in Vegas, she must have had a different attitude toward the military depending on the circumstances in her life.
My idea is that maybe in the Vegas AU her dad was a war hero and she wanted to be like him. Maybe he A: died on the battlefield and she always thought about the medics who tried to save him or B: a medic saved him. Maybe in this AU her father is alive and well and she was dead. Anything is possible.

[Eri13]

Okay Sparkies! Are you ready? Bear with me, because I'm doing a two-fer this time around...but it's probably going to take a good couple of hours, because I need to do work in between. So be patient...we'll get through it all by the end of the day.

In the meanwhile, let's start with...



The Return, Part I

The Return is one of those sets of episodes which, despite being a solid story filled with amazing special effects, some good team action, and some good character moments, just never sits well with me. There are a number of reasons why--not the least of which is a jagged discontinuity between certain elements, including our favorite, Sparky. But The Return is also one of those stories which I feel was kind of wasted talent, which probably ends up souring even a bit more for me. While it has it's moments--and some of those moments are incredible moments--the lack of certain things in other areas, all of which I'll get to throughout these recaps, weakens the story to the point where I gripe more than I applaud. By the time it's finished, I find myself thinking how much better it could have been rather than how good it really was.

The Return, Part I begins with one of the episodes' stronger story devices--humor. We finally see that the small thread of 'continuity' (dare we call it 'an arc?!') we've been getting in Season 3--the intergalactic bridge--is finally complete. Though Midway is not finished, the gate bridge itself is, which Rodney humorously explains through one of his traditional egghead monologues.



I have to say that one of the strongest characters storywise IS Rodney. In The Return episodes, I felt that he fully fleshed out Rodney, playing him smart, arrogant, cowardly, humorously, goofy, touching, emotional and confident all in one breadth. For those of us who constantly criticize the flux in Rodney's character, this set of episodes show how they nicely all his sides fit together. Wish it had been done more this way.


Entering the phase of 'Elizabeth looks AMAZING'. She really sizzles from about this point through the rest of Season 3


Why exactly does JOHN have to run the test? Isn't it safer with someone who is not the second in command?

One of the best things about The Return is the number of familiar faces we see pop up in the story. I'm sort of half-and-half with crossovers--sometimes I think they're great, sometimes I feel like they're pushing it--but in this case, I enjoyed seeing Jack (just because Richard Dean Anderson is great), Landry, Walter, Dr. Lee and even Woolsey. I felt like their presence wasn't just being forced, but worked very well in what was a good example of how a crossover set of episodes should be.



Though the test works well--another way that we've eased travel to Earth--Rodney picks up something strange on his...something. Turns out there is a ship out there, and for reasons that are simply explained by "Doppler Effect", "Relativity", "sublight, hyperdrive and almost light speed", we find out there ARE still Ancients in the galaxy.





Call me crazy, but I really liked Helia. I thought her attitude was perfect--very Ancient-y, and yet appealing. The actress really nailed how an Ancient, even one 10,000 years removed from the developments of the human race, would treat those she considered of lesser standing, despite their advancements.





Where did this thingy come from and what did it do?

The ousting of the Atlantis expedition is heartbreaking, though of course the Ancients are justified in wanting it. I think John explains it best with his Cheetos-and-couch explanation, despite Rodney's objections.

I think one of things that truly unsettles me about The Return is how, just when I get comfortable with the attitudes and story, is it slaps me in the face with a dose of post-season 3 reality. Like the image of Woolsey negotiating with the Ancients and the IOA's decision to have him serve as 'representative' for Earth on Atlantis. It makes for a super-fast forward moment to when Woolsey becomes head of Atlantis and Elizabeth really is no longer there. We get a number of those type of wake-up calls as The Return progresses.







I also enjoy the relationship between Jack and Elizabeth. In the SG-1 stories that introduce Elizabeth, you don't get much of Jack and Elizabeth. I wish we had, because the chemistry between RDA and Torri is very strong. They play off each other well, but he has this way of treating her like a woman for whom he has both a profound respect and a friendly fondness. I like the way Elizabeth's character sort of elevates in his presence--with him, we suddenly get a glimpse of the woman chosen by the IOA to lead this expedition, and more importantly, we get a glimpse as to why. I think with our regular cast, we get used to her being 'leader' but take it for granted.



The goodbye scenes are some of my favorites, touching and sad and humorous at the same time. I thought Ronon, in particular, got some good lines in The Return. The only character I kinda gripe about is Carson--I felt like he went too weak in this episode set. Save for one or two scenes, he sorta got reduced to slapstick humor.




This scene felt a bit like improv, like the actors were told to just do whatever they might do in a situation like this rather than have it directed out. Love the hug.


I'm so-so about this scene. In one sense, I really like it, in another, it felt a little forced.

And, of course, I'd be remiss in not mentioning a really great Sparky scene. In a moment that reflects on their Season 1 scene in "Home", John comes to check on Elizabeth. We even get a mention of War and Peace. In our Sparky sense, he's worried about her--it's not like he couldn't tell her all the technical stuff by radio. What he's really doing is offering a little bit of comfort for the person probably hit hardest by this eviction. I like how he cheers her up a bit with his traditional sense of humor.

This scene, demonstrating the ease with which John and Elizabeth discuss things like this--how easy it is, for example, for her to confess to him that no other job in the world will compare to Atlantis, and how he makes her smile despite her frustration--just eschews the core of their relationship. Friendship, comfort, trust.

Which is why a series of scenes just a few minutes from now infuriates me.




Welcome to Chez Elizabeth. She had some nice digs. It's good to be the King.

Coming up...The Return goes from 'good' to 'frustrating; we see a familiar and welcome face in an unexpected place, and...seriously, those were the bad guys?

Expect a continuation in a few hours...

[KrisRussel]

Okay Sparkies! Are you ready? Bear with me, because I'm doing a two-fer this time around...but it's probably going to take a good couple of hours, because I need to do work in between. So be patient...we'll get through it all by the end of the day.

Why exactly does JOHN have to run the test? Isn't it safer with someone who is not the second in command?

This scene, demonstrating the ease with which John and Elizabeth discuss things like this--how easy it is, for example, for her to confess to him that no other job in the world will compare to Atlantis, and how he makes her smile despite her frustration--just eschews the core of their relationship. Friendship, comfort, trust.

Which is why a series of scenes just a few minutes from now infuriates me.

Thank you for these already... loved reading all of it.

I always wondered about why they let the second in command or the lead-scientist perform all the dangerous tests, but I guess that if they don't use the main actors, then what's the point of having them around?
Also, if they use "second-rate" characters they usually end up dying or something ;^)

The scene in her room really is *squeeee* material and shows how much their friendship has grown... I think I know what the frustrating scene is you're talking about and I agree with you... very frustrating!

Anyway, can't wait to see your next post!

[Southern Red]

Seriously, do you think John would have passed up testing the bridge? And I loved the line about pizza and Rodney's reaction.

According to the commentary, that Ronon/John hug was an adlib by Jason and took Joe completely by surprise. They thought it worked and left it in.

[Eri13]

The Return: Part I, Part II

We're always joking about how John and Elizabeth appear attached at the hip, but in The Return series, up until about 15 minutes through Part II, it appears Ronon and Teyla are attached at the hip. Good for Spanky fans, I suppose.



I honestly like the headbump goodbye John gives Teyla. And certainly understand how it would be taken as Sheyla in a sense, though for me it's just one friend saying goodbye to another he greatly respects and cares for.



The march of the four back through the wormhole--with Elizabeth turning to glance up at the city with regret--is wonderfully parallel to the original scene of her coming through the wormhole in "Rising". This is one of those moments that is not just good, it's great.




This, for me, is one of the signature images of Elizabeth.

6 weeks later...

Though we're not told off the top that it's been six weeks--I wish we were, we're actually given a hint later in the script as an off-hand mention--we find our team members settling in (not very well) to life on Earth.

And so start the scenes that drive me crazy.

Do they jobs they're doing make sense? Absolutely. Does the fact they are all in the dumps about leaving Atlantis make sense? Of course! Their attitudes to each other? NOT. SO. MUCH.

Getting on my high-horse for a moment--do I believe John would act like he doesn't care Elizabeth's been holed away from the world for six weeks? Not one bit. What more infuriating about the scene between, first, he and Rodney, and then the next, between Carson and Elizabeth, is his attitude. He talks with Rodney, who is genuinely concerned and missing his friends, like he's talking with a guy he sees everyday. Playing with toy plays and hanging up on him? Why is he so careless? Where's the guy who claimed, in Sateda, that Rodney, Elizabeth, Ronon, Teyla and Carson were his family and he'd do anything to protect them? Honestly, he deserves a big, fat *WHAP* for acting this way. /end rant.





Hand-in-hand with that is the scene with Elizabeth. While I think it is exactly befitting of Elizabeth's state of mind, and I enjoy Carson's presence here, I also don't believe he would be the first visiting. For me, personally, this scene felt like the writer (who happens to be Martin Gero) said 'I can't have John visit--that looks wayyyyy too intimate. Let's make it Carson instead.' In other words, these two scenes feel like they were designed this particular way to purposely downplay any shippiness or chance at shippiness. Like, they needed them in there to expound on the characters, but they tiptoed around what would directly make better sense and shoved some OOC moments on them.





Now, that's just my opinion, and I could be wrong--and playing devil's advocate, on the flip side, let me make this argument. Rodney has evolved as a character and a person in Atlantis--but he's not so much a part of that world that he can't recognize what the best part of being in Atlantis was--making friends. Elizabeth and John, however, are much more closely tied to Atlantis--essentially, their reconstructed lives centered around it, around each other, and around the duties there. When Atlantis is taken away from both of them, it's just too painful to re-establish those connections back on Earth. It would make sense for both John, who doesn't like to deal with emotions, and Elizabeth, who doesn't want to. Hence, seeing each other is just too hard, and too much for either of them. Both recognize it, so they go out of their way to avoid seeing one another. I suppose it could make sense.

If that's the case though, how is this scene--the next we see--so comfortable for both of them?





Though the reunion dinner features all four, I think very few would denies that there is a vibe that flows between the cut-aways of Sparky John and Elizabeth. Once they're back on screen together, that chemistry just hits you full force. Easy, comfortable, funny. Which is probably why the previous two scenes frustrate me so much.

If you have a different take on these three or four scenes, let me know, because I'd love to hear them!







While enjoying their cheesecake, the group is called in simultaneously by NORAD because we have a major problem back in Pegasus--replicators! Apparently, the failsafe built into the replicator base code didn't work, and replicators have seized the city.

We'll see more of these guys as we go on--but I have to say early--was there just no budget to call in at least one straightforward Replicator leader? I felt like, despite the Replicators being serious enemies, that we don't get any truly scary nanite guys here. Robert Davi did a great job of establishing Kolya in 2 episodes--was it not possible to do the same for a replicator leader (particularly if he could pop back up again?)

Anyways...if you don't have an idea why Beau Bridges was so good on SG-1, I think you get it here. Though he doesn't have an imposing presence, his personality is very sharp--and he delivers some of the best lines in the story. This one is one of my favorites:

WEIR: You're going to use nuclear weapons on Atlantis?
LANDRY: It's the gateway to Earth.
McKAY: And we have an iris!
LANDRY: Yes, we do, but thanks to your Intergalactic Gate Bridge, all they have to do is rewrite your macro and they can come out anywhere in the Milky Way.
McKAY: Yeah, but those macros are very complicated.
LANDRY: *They* are very complicated, Doctor McKay. They just rewrote their own damned base code! I think they can handle it!

Well, our guys, homesick and devoted to Atlantis at any cost, won't let it get destroyed without a fight. They hatch a plan to save Atlantis, defying the SGC and IOA from top to bottom. For it to work, a couple of pieces have to fall into place, though, and the first is getting access to a jumper.

And here comes one of my favorite scenes, more particularly because it's an honest-to-goodness humor scene for Torri, along with a wonderful reparte between Weir and McKay. Plus, the absolutely adorable Bill Dow is thrown in to boot.

And we find out Teyla's not the only one who can charm people.




Rodney's signs to Elizabeth to 'stretch' and 'keep going' are hysterical, and wonderfully slapstick.



A few zat gun blasts (see SG-1 wikipedia for that reference) and a few defied orders and our guys are off to save Atlantis. And despite the (slight) surrealism of it all--do we truly believe that John defying an order of that magnitude would only get him a slap on the wrist at the end--it's still kind of exciting, for the entire team--Carson and Elizabeth included--to be going on a mission to save the city.





Coming up...Some of Atlantis's best special effects evah, another familiar face that it's good to see, and Jack O'Neill shows why RDA is missed in the SG-1 world...

[Anuna]

Speaking of being out of your comfort zone. Vegas spoilers

Spoiler:

Under what circumstances do you guys think Elizabeth would have joined the military? If she is the medic in Vegas, she must have had a different attitude toward the military depending on the circumstances in her life.
My idea is that maybe in the Vegas AU her dad was a war hero and she wanted to be like him. Maybe he A: died on the battlefield and she always thought about the medics who tried to save him or B: a medic saved him. Maybe in this AU her father is alive and well and she was dead. Anything is possible.

I'm gonna reply to Return 2 fer later SR just made an excellent point.

Spoiler:

I was told that Elizabeth could have been civilian medic too, that's how I wrote my fix it fic, now I'm wondering if I made a mistake. But I guess she could volunteer for an organization like Doctors without borders too. Anyway, it's an AU and her motivation could have been different than what we are used to seeing.

[KrisRussel]

The Return: Part I, Part II

The march of the four back through the wormhole--with Elizabeth turning to glance up at the city with regret--is wonderfully parallel to the original scene of her coming through the wormhole in "Rising". This is one of those moments that is not just good, it's great.


And so start the scenes that drive me crazy.


And here comes one of my favorite scenes, more particularly because it's an honest-to-goodness humor scene for Torri, along with a wonderful reparte between Weir and McKay. Plus, the absolutely adorable Bill Dow is thrown in to boot.
Rodney's signs to Elizabeth to 'stretch' and 'keep going' are hysterical, and wonderfully slapstick.

The march back through the wormhole is nicely done, but what happened to the rest of the expedition?
Ok, it's been ages since I've seen these episodes *headdesk* and there was prolly a reference to the rest of the expedition leaving, so someone please refresh my memory.

You are so right! And it were the scenes I thought you were talking about and they drive me insane too. It really is like the writers tried everything possible to avoid sparky, even write them completely OOC *glares at writers* "Bad writers!"
It's also very true that once John and Liz share the screen again, sparks are flying all over the place again... nothing the writers can do about that

OMG that scene with Elizabeth and Rodney and Dr. Lee is one of the most hilarious in all five years of SGA! I roll of the couch every time I see it

Can't wait to see the rest!

[justhere1971]

I agree with SR, I also questioned the sanity of John testing the gate-bridge, but he truly is the most qualified to go. Besides, he'd never let it go to someone else.

I kinda enjoyed the Carson/Rodney scene. It was sweet, but know what you mean it changes each time you view it.

[Eri13]

The Return, part 1, part III & The Return, part 2, part I

Back in the Pegasus galaxy, on what we will assume will be called "New Athos" from now on, we find Ronon and Teyla (still attached at the hip) by happenstanceamacoinkidink chatting with one of my favorite characters, Genii leader Ladon Radim. Ah, sad we couldn't get more of Ladon, because I loved him. Am I mistaken, or is this his last appearance in SGA?

I love how Ladon is still Ladon--you want to trust him, but it just doesn't feel 100%. And how Ronon still dislikes him.





Isn't Rachel Luttrell lovely when she smiles? We get a genuine one here when John, Elizabeth and rest emerge from the woods to find their old Pegasus comrades. Of course, always-eager-to-fight Ronon and supportive Teyla immediately agree to join up. Nice to know that Teyla kept her BDUs handy somewhere.






One of my favorite pictures. What he's saying here? "I'll be damned if I'm gonna let a bunch of Replicators take our home away from us. So – you with us?" And Elizabeth smiles at him. In less than 100 posts, I'm going see if I can make it into an avatar.

And...we're off to save Atlantis!



The Return, part 2 is really about the action. It's kinda interesting, because for me The Return, part 1 felt quite squished together--a ton of stuff jammed into a 42 minute segment. The Return, part 2 only covers a couple of hours. So it's stretched a little bit, but that's good--I think we get a more cohesive story and some great interplay between characters.

The first being the dialogue between Woolsey and Jack, who are in hiding, trying to avoid the replicators. There are just too many good lines to quote here, of Jack chastizing Woolsey. But when I see Jack like this, it reminds me of the good ol' days, when I used to watch and love SG-1 faithfully.



I should mention, before we get into the serious action, the Earth's reaction. Landry, ever diligent, stubbornly sticks to his orders to nuke the city, despite reservations from Walter and other SGC members. It's perhaps not completely necessary, but I like it. Keeps them in character.

I do have to give a special shout-out to the scene between Bill Dow and Landry which comes a little later, though I don't have pictures. Very funny.



Team Atlantis enters the Stargate, and we see more of those nameless Replicator 'leaders'. Maybe it makes sense that the two guys at the center of everything are nameless, because Replicators have no personality--but I still argue a main villain is more fun. The replicators enemies just sort of...bored me. And I'm still trying to figure out how and why we disposed of 100 Ancients that quickly.

In any case, it doesn't matter...it's Team Atlantis that counts, and our guys do something shocking right off the bat--they destroy the central tower with a bomb. At the risk of sounding like a fanboy--cool.



Phase II of Plan A then goes into effect--and it involves a blast from the past, as well as foreshadow to the future. I dislike anything replicator because of "Lifeline", but I really started to hate this scene--the same way I hate the end scene of "Progeny"--after "Ghost in the Machine". Those of you who have seen that episode know exactly why.


Did you catch the Sparky moment in here? When Rodney snaps at Elizabeth about his being able to remember the plan because it was 'his plan', John retorts 'actually, using Niam was Elizabeth's plan'.



Now, in case you got lost, let me explain the Plans as they come. Plan A was to blow up the Tower, and while the Replicators were busy reconstructing their main operations, scoop up Niam, program in a freeze program to his code, use it to access all the other replicators, freeze them, land in the city, and shoot all the replicators with the Anti-Replicator Guns (ARGs). Problem is, they can't turn Niam 'on' all the way, or he'll attack them again, as he did Elizabeth in "Progeny". So to transmit the code, they have to get extremely close to the city.

Enter some of the best special effects on Atlantis at any point in time. These, for me, compare to some of the Siege CGI moments--what did you think? Or did you miss them as the action progressed?




Absolutely PHENOMENAL visuals

I also get a giggle out of Elizabeth and John's dialogue here:

WEIR: If we keep this up, there won't be much of a city left to save.
SHEPPARD: I'll try to run the drones into your least favourite buildings. McKay!

There are too many drones, too little time. In an odd moment of discontinuity, the jumper dives into the ocean, with the drones acting like they can't follow--discontinuous, because we see a few minutes later Carson shooting drones into the sea. *shrugs*

In any case, it buys our guys some time, and brings about one of the coolest crossover moments of any of the crossovers. It starts with John re-contacting Jack--again, I can't highlight all of the funny moments with Jack, because there are just too many--but I like this little interaction between Jack and Elizabeth:

SHEPPARD: Sorry, sir. Had to go into space and pick up some ...
frozen goods. (Jack and Woolsey exchange a glance.)
O'NEILL (into radio): Whatever. Where are you now?
SHEPPARD: We're not exactly inside the city yet. We're headed toward an underwater Jumper Bay.
WEIR: Well, what we think *may* be an underwater Jumper Bay.
O'NEILL: Is that Doctor Weir I hear?
WEIR (smiling): Yes, General. It's good to hear your voice too.
O'NEILL: I didn't say it was *good*, Elizabeth. (Elizabeth's smile fades.)

As Rodney works on transmitting the freezing programme now that they're close to the city, the crew runs into trouble--the underwater jumper bay they're trying to get to is locked down--and through some rather sketchy bad luck they're now trapped, with water leaking in. What to do next?

Coming up...Underwater work on Atlantis? Who ever thought of such a thing? Plus, plan switching gets a little confusing, some split up team goodness, and a sketchy plot device.

[Eri13]

The Return, part 2, Part II...

Trapped in an underwater jumper bay with no way out? In SG-1, there is only one person who can fix that scenario, and luckily he happens to be in the city, right around where you're at. Calling Jack O'Neill, the king of getting out of hairy situations, to save the day. Here, we get a nice underwater sequence with Jack saving them. Love how even Rodney seems unable to take an attitude with the impressive General Jack O'Neill.







The end result, however, isn't a good one--Jack and Woolsey are captured, and John, not sure of what happened, decides to see if they can find them, leaving Rodney on his own. Plan A is still in effect, however--but not for long.



With Jack and Woolsey now in the Replicators' possession, it's not hard to see how our guys' plan is going to be found out pretty easily. Turns out Jack's a tough nut to crack, even with the mind-probe--Woolsey, not so much ( How did that guy get qualified to lead Atlantis again?). In any case, the beans are spilled and the replicators quickly reactivate Niam--forcing Rodney to shoot him. End Plan A.




Hee Hee. Love Jack's comment about his mind being roomy.



Plan B is Ronon's suggestion--point and shoot. And while this seems plausible, Rodney points out a flaw--in John's more succinct explanation, immunity. The Replicators will find out what frequency the ARGs use and override it accordingly. We see the same effect happen in "Lifeline"--another foreshadow.



Plan C, then, is to load C4 into the shield generators, causing them to explode when the shield is 'raised'. This will allow the Daedalus to beam a nuclear bomb in and destroy Atlantis--killing them all. It seems the only option--a plan Jack refers to as "Plan F". This is essentially what Landry was wanting them to do in the first place, by the way.

In order to get the C4 into all 10 shield generators, the group has to split up. What's 'neat' about this is we kinda get teams we don't get much of--Ronon and Elizabeth, Carson and Teyla.





Rodney and John head over to where Woolsey and Jack are being held--with Rodney doing his best 'evil villain monologue' imitation, spilling all of the Plan C info. Little suspect, perhaps?




I mentioned early on how many of Rodney's faces we see here. This is overexuberant Rodney.

Uh, oh...glitch. Things seem to move so quickly in TR, part 2 that it almost blows by you. Turns out the Replicators have finished repairs and are now engaging the Star Drive. We call on Carson to save the day by jumping in the chair. I actually forgot he had this heroism moment.


The direction in this episode is really great. I love the camera shots and angles





With the rest of the group finishing up their tasks, it seems like Plan C might work--might. Until, the inevitable...the replicators catch on, and catch up.


Hrm. They are standing awfully close. Wex shippers, stand up!



With everyone captured, it seems like all is lost--or is it? Sketchy Plot devices, front and center...



Coming up...Plan C is actually Plan D, which isn't Plan F. Plus, everyone gets out with a smile, and a sweet moment for SGA--with a hug that's just a hug.

[Southern Red]

I'm gonna reply to Return 2 fer later SR just made an excellent point.

Spoiler:

I was told that Elizabeth could have been civilian medic too, that's how I wrote my fix it fic, now I'm wondering if I made a mistake. But I guess she could volunteer for an organization like Doctors without borders too. Anyway, it's an AU and her motivation could have been different than what we are used to seeing.

Why thank you. You have a point. Vegas again.

Spoiler:

I have to think that if she had been a civilian Rodney wouldn't have referred to her as a "medic". However, maybe it was a UN group. Remember AU, anything is possible. Maybe in that AU all doctors in a combat zone are called medics. Gosh, I love AU's.

And on Return II, the Jack/Woolsey scenes are among my faves. Don't forget the wee baby turtles. *giggles* And Sparky is are acting so married in the jumper.

[Eri13]

The Return, part 2, part III

Everyone is captured--would seem like a problem anywhere else, and any other time, but for for the intrepid Team Atlantis, not so much. Luckily for them, the Replicators bring Woolsey and Jack to join them in their cell, so everyone can see how Plan C was actually Plan D.

Enter one of those textbook plot/film devices, the flashback--which normally I don't mind; heck, it works wonders on Lost. Did you like it? For me, it was alright. I don't think there was a better way to convey what really happened. I think maybe the scroll backwards at the beginning was a little much, but overall, it was cool to see Rodney's bumbling Plan C was actually a quite effectual Plan D--turns out Plan C's C4 was just a diversion. In the real Plan D, the group switched the crystals from the ARG guns into the shield generators, rendering shield activation a huge ARG. Hence why, if you were paying attention, Ronon shoots the replicators with his stun gun, not the ARG. Although, following Teyla's & Carson's alteration of the generators, she still has two functioning ARGs. How many of those guns did they have, anyway?

Guess it doesn't matter. As it turns out, the plan works, and the replicators are toast--all courtesy Richard Woolsey, who's inability to resist mind-probing actually sealed the plan. I sometimes give Woolsey a hard time, but honestly, I really like both him and Robert Picardo. Under circumstances that didn't require the complete dismissal of Elizabeth, I would have enjoyed seeing him as a regular on Atlantis.







With the Ancients unfortunately killed, the Replicators gone, and Atlantis rebuilt--though a bit 'spartan', as Elizabeth puts it--it seems the world has returned to normal. Or at least the show.

Now, I'm a bit of a realist, which is sort of an oxymoron for a sci-fi fan, I guess. But I do like to see things not be resolved non-obviously, and the fact that Jack just has the power to wave his hand and everyone--including John, who at this point has defied direct orders about 4 times and been officially fired twice--all get to go back without any repercussion seems a little sketchy to me. But I guess that's Atlantis for you.

The end scene is a nice one, though. Again, we get Jack and Elizabeth--and with Jack giving Elizabeth an assurance she and her team will return to Atlantis, Elizabeth reaches up and hugs him.

Now, we on this thread LOVE hugs. Love them. So here is a nice way to contrast Elizabeth's hug of two different men.

Though Jack is about as awkward as John in the "Siege, III" the feel isn't the same. He has a resigned look on his face as she grabs him, like he was surprised, but not shocked. Elizabeth's look is one of joy, not relief--for obvious reasons, she's hugging him because she's happy to get the city back, not necessarily because Jack's alive. And yet, the overall effect is still not the same. John and Elizabeth are awkward, with this sense of 'uh, maybe we just crossed a line here and I'm not sure how I feel about this'. Jack's cute little smile following is not awkward, but amused and has no UST with this embrace. From top to bottom, this hug feels very friendly. Martin Gero, that is how two friends hug.











For fun, anyone?









All in all, The Return parts 1 & 2 are not bad episodes--but, similar to a couple of other episodes I've recapped, they're not my favorites. Partly because I do get irritated with some of the OOC stuff, particularly that sequence back on Earth. Partly because, while there is a lot going on, they just don't feel like they have that 'oomph' I expect from a mid-season two-parter. For me there's something missing that I can't quite put my finger on.

This isn't one of those episodes that's genuinely 'bad', however. I think I get critical because it had the potential to be really good, and had some awesome stuff in it--dialogue and character interactions in particular. Even as I wrinkled my nose at some of the more extraordinary elements of the story, last night, I was still laughing and enjoying myself.

So...what did you think? How much did you enjoy The Return series? Your gripes, or your favorite moments?

Check it out over the weekend, and I'll develop questions on both episodes next week.

[Scary Kitty]

Good afternoon, Sparkies!

Damn Eri, you've been busy! Your recap for The Return is frakin' HUGE!

Quick question: Is anyone else having trouble getting on to Command Dynamics? I keep getting a 404 error.

[Erin87]

So...what did you think? How much did you enjoy The Return series? Your gripes, or your favorite moments?

First of all, excellent job on the recap. Very detailed, and it called attention to just the right points.
I have to say that I always enjoyed The Return. I always thought it was cool, getting to see them all working together as a team to save the city. (I always thought it was awesome that Elizabeth got to go help too. You get to see her carrying a P-90 and wearing the black BDUs like the rest of the team. Go Elizabeth! ) The scenes between Jack and Woolsey were very funny too. (Even if the whole thing does highlight Woolsey's complete unfitness for the role of Atlantis's commander.) And part one is home of one of my all-time favorite lines. When John says: "I'll be damned if I'm going to let them take our home away from us." *squeaks and laughs happily* Our home! I just love it because it shows just how much the city really means to him, and to all of them. Atlantis really is their home and they belong there. All of them. Together. I just really enjoy that moment. A lot.
You are right though, about the slight OOC moments in the first part, and looking back it does lessen the episode somewhat. I do remember feeling like John was a little too... would insensitive be the right word? to Rodney when he was talking to him on the phone. And it also felt a little strange that Carson would be the one to go see Elizabeth. 'Cause you expect it to be John, you really do. I'm pretty sure I did. 'Cause when she opens the door, the first time you see it it's like, yep, that's John, coming to check on her. But then it's Carson. Which is nice, but... I never got the sense of Carson and Elizabeth being all that close, to the point where he would be the first and only one to go see her. It almost, almost felt like they were just picking someone at random (and I do not think Carson is just a random character by any means, I love Carson, so don't take that the wrong way) to get her to the dinner, and I think it felt that way because it was always John who took on that comforting role. But maybe that was just me. *shrugs* I do agree with the anti-ship charges aimed at the writers. It really did seem like they were doing everything they could to avoid it. (But they couldn't avoid sparky, bwahahaha! go dinner!)
I also like the dinner for it's sparkiness. Love the interaction between them and their little exchange, with John's "since when do you sleep?" comment. Very nice moment that showed their comfortableness with each other. In complete agreement on all that you said about that scene.

Anywhoo... that was a lot. Probably more than was necessary, but those are my thoughts on the episodes.
Thanks again for the recap, it was a very entertaining read.