Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Raylion]

Wow Bama, just read your fic, and it was so.. cute and fluffy, it almost made me cry (and I'm not one to cry over fluff..). You have a very own way of writing I think, detailed and something I can only describe as "soft". (Sounds stupid, I know)

Hello to all newbies. I'm unable to keep track of you, sorry.

When were at it, concerning ages.. I think I'm one of the youngest, I'm 15. (Turning 16 in March). I think that explains my lack of brain.

What I have been thinking about in the last week, was Caldwell and his role in the command dymanics. We cleared it, that he is going to change a lot. I really liked him in The Siege 3, despite saying to myself before that I wasn't going to.

Spoiler:

I thought he was calm and collected, even as hell broke louse.

I also liked him in Intruder,

Spoiler:

for being just on the edge to being an a**. He challenged Elizabeth, but she won. I think it was a big dump for his ego, that John was put in command rather than him. I really disliked him in Runner. He went from the edge of being an a** to being one. When he challenged Elizabeth in Intruder, it was more about work related. But at the end of Runner, he went on a far more personal level.

Which brings me back to me thinking that he is an ass. As mentioned somewhere, sometime, I would like him to go against Elizabeth and John. Maybe he challenges one first and the other backs up, something like that. In season 1, our favorite two strugled with each other in the beginning of the season, and were slowly making their way to being allies, up to that point, that they trusted each other completly. But now they have sometimes a common enemy (speaking about Atlantis. The Wraith are a different matter), that they will eventually have to fight. And that is exactly what I would like to see. We know that they trust each other, but it would be another evidence, if we saw it like them going together against an enemy. Like with Everett, but I think it would be different with Caldwell. Everett was in a emergency situation, where Elizabeth was just walzed down in her authority, but John stood up for her. Thinking about it, this was

Spoiler:

reversed in Intruder, where she stood up for him. If he knew it or not, is still a thing to fill fanfictions and discussions.

And somehow I lost my point now. Was a hard week..

Speaking of which, what was the most unexpected Shep/Weir moment of Season 1 for everybody?

I wish I could remember that, but I spoiled myself with reading ffs and not giving a damn about spoilers.. I think it was in Home, their talk in his quarters. But I'm really not sure.

I'm always avoiding this thread from Saturday early morning til I've seen the new ep. I'm such a weakie, I would't be able to resist the spoilers..

I don't know if it was mentioned before, but I stumbled across a scene in our all favorite episode Chaya (German dubbers are so creative ), aka Sanctuary (I can't get that word right..). Right at the end, where Shep flies the Jumper out to another suicide mission, and Elizabeth is kinda "seeing him off" and running on that catwalk, talking to him. Anyone knows which scene I mean? Anyway, that got me thinking.. Sanctuary occurs after the big clash in Hot Zone, and consindering this, I'm not sure what to make of Elizabeth actions in that scene.

So, I think now I'm better off to bed, it's half past 11 pm here, I had a long week, and I'm going climbing tomorrow.. (Up at 7!! That's just so cruel. I have ******* holidays.. And I am voluntarily working 40 hours the week!)

[Bama]

Bama, I loved your fic.

Great. That makes me feel better coming from an Atlantis 'old head'. Being a newbie really puts you at a disadvantage trying to write fanfic.

The most surprising moment for me was the way John acted during The Eye, but even more so was the intense scene when John shot Kolya and Elizabeth was so very shocked afterwards. Torri's reaction was perfect and there were all these little subtexts going on...wow. Just...wow. And I was in the middle of resisting what was happening to them big time. It felt so strange to be so deeply conflicted about a ship, when usually I'm pretty open to them. But I couldn't help being drawn in...

Wow, do I wish I'd seen that episode. The few 'clips' I've seen of it are amazing. I love it when John shoots the piss out of the dude holding onto Elizabeth and then later has that stare and grabs her hand. It just 'looks' like it would have been an awsome episode and obviously was a shipper important episode from the way you folks speak of it.

I also shipped Mulder and Scully...probably one of the most amazing ships ever. Their chemistry was incredible.

Yes, I don't think if I live to be 101 and watch relationships on the big or little screen that I'll ever see one to match that one. That was lightening in a bottle. It was so good that it becomes a part of you and stays with you.
I do hope we see them finally make that second film the next couple of years. Just the thought of seeing those two together in those roles on the big screen makes me smile.

For the time being though, I'm REALLY loving John and Elizabeth. ; )

--Bama

[xkawaiix]

yup lol. That would be awesome! I was wondering, I started a McShep friendship thread, anyone care to join for a bit????

[Bama]

I'm pretty sure I didn't make the first point, but I can't remember who said it. Its a good point.

Whoopsie...oh well, not my first or last mistake. ; )

Because of the Weir character, I picked up a couple of the late Keith Laumer's books about an adventurer/diplomat. Laumer was an actual diplomat (12 years) before he started writing scifi. His character "Retief" has to deal with career diplomats who, if we are to believe Laumer's own assessment, are pretty namby pamby in real life. So yeah, there are real, built in problems with having a diplomat as a protagonist. Laumer solved the problem by making Retief a gun toting, unorthodox, survive-by-his-wits master manipulator. And while I don't see Weir going that far, it's been kind of interesting watching her go from career diplomat to more like, well, Retief.

I think it definitely is going to be fun to watch. The slow 'transformation' of this lady who has lived and died by words now seeing the need to use the sword as well. This brings up another riveting character adustment even if it is because TPTB didn't plan as well as they should have or think everything through properly to begin with.



I'll have you know that question gave me an instant headache. Seriously...I had to take two Tylenol in order to consider it.

LOL . Good, I'm glad someone besides me gets them. Actually, chatting is a stress 'reliever' for me usually. I type very fast and I just put down whatever hits my brain most times.

This is where I have to give tptb of Stargate their props. To come up with entertaining, believable storylines in a scifi universe takes real genius (and tons of hard work). I can't imagine trying to do it *for a living*. It's why they are who they are, and I am...me.

So, having said that...I'll take a deep breath and take a shot at it.


First thing that comes to mind is that they can just choose to let Weir go out more. Amazingly brilliant, isn't it? But I figure if the commanders in Star Trek do it, then why not Weir. She is only as constrained as tptb choose to make her.

To a point I suppose. But who runs the city in her absence? Does she have a 'second' in charge of 'homeland security' that would allow her to move out and about more on missions? I would like to think TPTB perhaps have a plan to do this very thing. Caldwell is a smooth, experienced hand at running a ship and he could be right for such a job if he could swallow his ego and do it.

But if they want to go with what they've been doing so far, I would like to see her involved in a plot that involves a future, crucial ally.

Yes, we are thinking alike. Dealings get very dangerous at times-even here on earth so I could imagine that meeting new potential allies and having to work with them to forge something could add drama and adventure to her role.

In the Stargate universe, Earth's allies have generally either been distant, or dismissive, or unreliable. In the Pegasus galaxy, amongst all the nasties, I would like the Atlantis mission to encounter a race that we must have an extremely close relationship with - and who really want a relationship with us - in order to defeat the Wraith. Elizabeth plays a key role in securing this alliance.

VERY GOOD THOUGHT. Sounds plausible and doable to me and it would give her some venue to really show off her stuff more than running around yelling into that cute little mic does.

She has to fight for it, however. Because for whatever reason, this race presents some problems (whatever they are) that cause Earth command to have reservations about forming an alliance. Due to her instinct, as well as experience, she sees in them the key to winning the fight against the Wraith.

I would like to see her selection as the leader of Atlantis (and official representative of Earth) vindicated in a Big Picture sort of way. Kind of like a Churchill - they may be wrong on any number of issues, but on the big issue THEY GET IT.

Sort of that big lesson reinforced that 'talk' with the proper amount of force backing can yeild the best fruits?

This is a special relationship that oftentimes requires Elizabeth to maintain it - which usually happens on their world. She sometimes has to plead Earth's case with them and use her diplomatic skills to their fullest. And because she goes offworld, she is vulnerable to any number of plot complications. And as our forces are spread out at key points in the galaxy, and win key victories, I could see her doing something controversial (something I don't think Churchill ever did) - go on an official visit. Which leads to more plot complications, obviously.

Hmmmm...I always learn something when I read yours and some of these other folks posts. And I love how you are making me think. ; ) She could be rather like the lead recon operative that's only with the military team to gather information and then take it home and make crucial decisions based on those first-hand observations. The only real problem I see with getting her out in the field more often to do these sort of things is that it would be tricky making it look like a choice rather than a demotion. However, I think the inner growth and voluntary self-exploration tendencies shown in 'Intruder' certainly indicate that she may want to ask asking for more and various type of duties and continue to expand herself.

I'd like to see Elizabeth and John involved in a diplomatic sleight-of-hand maneuver. You know, just a tip of the cap to Retief...

On a side note, I'd like to see her decision to not carry a gun play a part in securing the friendship of this future ally. Which is pretty funny coming from me, since I've been until recently part of the "Give Lizzie a Gun" crowd. I've changed my mind on the issue, in part because I like the implication of her placing her implicit trust in the people who serve under her, and also since I've always been fascinated by how little details can often impact the Big Picture. The idea has tremendous appeal to me. I can forgive her choosing to stay on a frontline without a firearm if there are larger issues at stake. Besides, I've grown fond of the mental picture of Lizzie tossing her curly hair and saying, "Why should I carry a gun, when I've got THESE GUYS?"

Hmmm...I don't know how I feel about giving her a gun. I would say that if the situation dictates and they can do it without weakening the character's strengths, then it might be ok. She might even learn more about herself and the enemies about if she is forced into using one. However, getting both sides to lay weapons down would certainly be a crowning glory for her character and I wouldn't want them to get too far away from the character's personal objectives.

Anyway, that's just off the top of my head. If I think of more, I'll post them.

How did I miss this post? Dang, this thread is MOVIN lately. Some excellent thoughts! Especially for a newbie who is learning on the run. Really gives me something to chew on as I watch and try to learn the characters for myself.
thanks tons per usual...

-Bama ; )

[LurkerLa]

Gah – so much to catch up on, and so little time before the next episode! Just wanted to say a few things.

Hello to anyone I’ve missed, and “WELCOME!”

Bama, I really enjoyed your fic. Keep ‘em coming for those of us who can’t write fanfic!

Colonel Sheppard – I’m still reading yours! (I read most of my fanfic offline so I don’t tie up my phone line.)

As for the age thingy... I’m 24, which means I’m rapidly hurtling towards adulthood. (Wait... I just bought a house! Does that me I am an adult? ) I’m going to be incredibly geeky and give you all the mean, median, and mode of our ages, although without exact numbers it’s a bit hard. At a guess (using the ages that have been stated), I’d say the mean is around 27-28, the median is 24, and the mode is 19 or 24 (this one’s difficult without exact numbers). Whether or not anyone actually cares about this, I've no idea. But I'm the daughter of two statisticians, so what else can I do?

And what surprised me most in Season 1? Well, I actually came into the show thinking that a Sheppard/Weir relationship might be interesting, although I would wait to see what actually happened. So nothing really surprised me, but “The Storm/The Eye” confirmed it for me.

[SallyLizzie]

It's a nice compliment to hear someone say you couldn't be over 30 but sometimes, it is good to 'look' your age

I get the opposite I'm 19 but everybody thinks i'm 25, which leads to funny looks when it comes up in conversation that i still live with my mum

Bama, I loved your fic. Write more. Lots more. Now. *saves to faves*
Colonel Sheppard, i'm going to read yours after i've posted this.

From the beginning I just expected them. I've always had trouble seeing other people's point of view, but it just seems so obvious to me. Anvil time. Is it mass hypnosis or a group delusion?

Definatley group delusion. Mum always said i should share

I was a MS shipper too,although apparantly i missed the two best series - 2 and 4.

I mix X-Files..... does it destroy my credibility in any way to say that I loved Robert Patrick and Annabeth Gish too???

If it does then my credibilty and your credibility can be uncredible together
I loved them. I remember watching the preview for Atlantis before it had started and going ''Is it..was that...OMG! It IS Robert Patrick''
Then i watched Rising and went ''Nooooooooooo!!!'' 2 eps, what a waste of talent and thunkability

Like a lot of you, i gave into SW after the gateroom scene in The Eye. The scene that surprised me was in Siege 2

Spoiler:

where John backs her up to Everett

Everett: I don't need your cooperation Dr Weir.
John: No, but you could probably use mine.

The fact that he did it infront of her and others under the Col's command made it stand out to me all the more. It reminded me of HZ where she questions his trust in her. I think this proves how much he does trust her and respect her. It shows that he thinks she deserves to be there, and more than that, that he believes in her and wants her to be there, otherwise why bother to disobey a direct order, and infront of an audience.

[Easter Lily]

I'm actually surprised at how many couples I know in RL in which the women are older than the men by at least a couple of years. I don't it is as uncommon as we think it is.
I'm not sure what people mean when they imply, hint or say that Weir is too old to be paired off with Sheppard. They look like they're about the same age and seem to be on a similar wavelength most of the time... and isn't that the most important thing? So what if she's older... It maybe a problem if the two of them wants to raise a basketball team... other than that... it's a moot point really.

[SapphireJewelledQueen]

...As for the wonderful Robert Patrick --- when I first saw him on Atlantis, I was like "cool, Doggett's along for the ride". I agree that it was a waste of talent! (my favourite ep from season nine of X-files was Audrey Pauley --- anyone else like that one??)

I loved that episode!!

But i can't wait to see 'Duet'...all those potential shippy moments.....

And Bama - LOVED your fic, was one of the best i've ever read. Hope to see more from you some time soon...Maybe a sequel??

Colonel Sheppard - havent had a chance to read yours yet (been busy catching up on this thread, it just keeps growing in leaps and bounds! ) but im sure its great! After all, it has Elizabeth and John in it right??

[SamCarterONeill]

Hello Shippers!

I just watched 'Duet' and it was very funny! I love McKay! Anywho I just wanted to say that

Spoiler:

There were minor shippy moments between ShWeir! I'm only talking about looks and fluffy stuff but at the same time, I am SO sure ShWeir will be pursuing a relationship and that ronan and teyla will also. So I'm a happy shipper

[LurkerLa]

Yeah, so I'm not going to do that thing where I post random reactions to the episode right away - because I've decided I do better when I've seen it twice. Just wanted to say that I liked Duet, and that

Spoiler:

I think we need to see John and Elizabeth having dinner in the same spot Rodney took Kate (and Carson! ). It looked like a nice little romantic spot: good view, nice lighting. Could be the perfect place to unwind after a long day of deciding whether or not to keep Ronon (Ronan?) around, worrying about your head scientist's sanity, etc. Maybe they could have a midnight snack there sometime!

And re: living with your parents - while I've lived on my own pretty much since I first started college (except for a few vacation months spent with my parents), I have a friend who just turned 25 and is still at home (saves on the rent). And to keep this in some way related to Atlantis - at least I only live 1900 miles from my parents and not a galaxy away! (Yeah, that is a bit of a stretch. But at least the first part had a point! )

[Bama]

Ok...some quick impressions about tonight's episode and then we're off to do a little late night shopping...

Spoiler:

First, props to David. What a neat role to get to play tonight and he played it with all the fun-loving goofballedness we've come to love in him! That episode was entertaining from start to finish and I must say that I felt a little sorry for him and the soldier girl. The kisses were hilarious!

Second, I continue to think I like Ronin. He is all tough and bad ass alien right now but his apology to Teyla as she did her body show routine certainly said something for him. TPTB are trying to set up a sexual vibe between them that will most likely show powerful fruit before John and Elizabeth even hold hands again. Sigh...patience...patience...

Third (and of course most importantly), what were our boy and girl doing of importance in this episode? But more importantly, what were they doing *together*. ; )

Well, while it was actually light on both John and Elizabeth to a degree, they did have some important things going on here.

Keep this line in mind as it was the most important one of the night: 'He's supposed to run that by me first.'

Tsk. Tsk...that little ol powerplay thing again just keeps on poppin up. You know though, the issue isn't really who is in charge between Elizabeth and John. It is more an issue of how she lets him away with everything.

Question for you old heads...has she ALWAYS done that with him? She absolutely cannot say 'no' to the man. You ask me-she had every right to shoot him down tonight and make him wait awhile before installing Ronin on the team but he shoots her those puppy dog eyes and an earnest request and she rolls over for him.

In comparison, wasn't it interesting how she made her authority clear to Rodney eh? "I'm not asking." When he began to argue with her, the response was clear, concise and left no room for wiggle. However, when John does the same, she allows him so much more rope. The two of them better build a strong bridge while they can because that level of trust between them is about to be put to the ultimate test me thinks. Someone is going to get hurt. And I think it's going to be Elizabeth.

All in all, a very fun, different episode from Martin Gero. And as usual, there wasn't really anything *written* shippy but the way John and Elizabeth played that arguement scene between them was enough to make your heart pitter patter. I adored the look Elizabeth gave him as he teased her about giving in to him. He knows he has her eating out of the palm of his hand and it is adoreable. Right now. Beware though, Beware. Hurt is coming between them because of this very thing that seemed so cute tonight.

Enjoyable ep! Are we lookin at any good interaction for next weeks?

-Bama ; )

[Melyanna]

Bama: After Underground aired last year, a good friend of mine said to me, "You know, for such a skilled diplomat, she sure lets John talk her into a lot of things." And then there was The Defiant One, where Rodney enlisted John's help in talking Elizabeth into something. The implication was he knew she'd give in to John. And she did.

It's a dangerous thing sometimes — witness Hot Zone — but for the most part, it works. I get the impression that if she says she'll consider it, he'll keep pushing her if it's something he thinks is really important. It's a good way to read someone who's so often unreadable. When it matters, she says no right off the bat. Now John just needs to figure out the signs.

[Bama]

Bama: After Underground aired last year, a good friend of mine said to me, "You know, for such a skilled diplomat, she sure lets John talk her into a lot of things." And then there was The Defiant One, where Rodney enlisted John's help in talking Elizabeth into something. The implication was he knew she'd give in to John. And she did.

It's a dangerous thing sometimes — witness Hot Zone — but for the most part, it works. I get the impression that if she says she'll consider it, he'll keep pushing her if it's something he thinks is really important. It's a good way to read someone who's so often unreadable. When it matters, she says no right off the bat. Now John just needs to figure out the signs.

Hey Mel,

You just had to respond before I could get off this thing. I've got to get to Target! ; )

I see where you're coming from with her giving in to him. And there is obviously a lot, LOT of trust coming from her toward John that she obviously doesn't have for anyone else on Atlantis. She is putting a lot of her success in his hands. My thought is: What happens when he lets her down when he has a choice? I just think it is going to happen. With all the trust thrown by her to him, she'll expect his loyalty and that same level of trust back from him. Caldwell couldn't accomplish his take-over through her and I think a lot of folks are now thinking, like I am, that his next attempt may come through John. It will be a battle of feelings. Are John's personal feelings as strong for Elizabeth as hers so obviously are for him?

I think it will be a strain but they will come out stronger for it on the other side.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

Interesting analysis Bama and Mel. I'm wondering what is going to happen to Shep and Weir. Liz definitely trusts him and does seem to bend over backwards for him at times. Perhaps she will be faced with a difficult decision and choose wrongly beause of John, but who knows. I do think John trusts her and gives her a great deal of respect as well. Yet more reasons why their relationship is so intresteing!

As for the ep,

Spoiler:

I loved the little scene at the end "I knew you'd say yes"--the chemistry was so strong there. Did anyone else think the way Weir said "yes" she almost seemed embarrased? Or like she was blushing a little? Now I'm reading too far into things again, but that's what shipping is all about!

Royal

[Rubicon]

See I knew I'd pop on the board & hear all the polly to make me feel better.
And I'm all ready to jump ship. 2 episodes w/o a gaze fest & I'm all gloom & doom. Forget it TPTB have dumped the ship. Bah!

I guess I'm a Ronin/Weir shipper too, but in the brother sister kinda way. I'd love that.

And for crips sake who the f**k does splits on the bed ALONE? She needs a man, bad. 'the h*ll?! The Pegasus Galaxy does not have eating utensils? Ronins parents never taught him how to eat? Stupid.

Sorry this post is all over the place. More SW next week please!