Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Torri012]

Hehe finally I have something to brag about. Here is the new chapter of Sunday fathers: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3945746/...lted_ice_cream

omg! omg! omg xD *gets all nervous and diez*

*runs off to read it*


btw. good mornig sparkies

[gateraid]

Your sig is absolutely beautiful! I love Reiko's art.

Aurora

Here's another episode that I think we gloss over in the long run but which is actually kind of fun and funny to watch. And it has some funny Elizabeth and John moments--not a ton of Sparky, but enough.

I really love the Ronon and Elizabeth scene in the beginning. I think it's a great development scene that, honestly, wasn't necessary to the plot but was necessary to the overall development in Season 2. I also like it's Elizabeth attempting to be friendly with Ronon--it goes to SEASON FOUR DISCUSSION ALERT:

Spoiler:

The scene in Adrift, again, where we see Ronon thanking Elizabeth for letting him stay. Whenever I watch that scene, this is the scene I'm immediately reminded of.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora032.jpg[/IMG]
Oh yeah. He's charmed. Who isn't?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora033.jpg[/IMG]

Because so much of "Aurora" takes place on the Aurora, I'm glad they found a way to really incorporate Elizabeth in the beginning. This may be what some naysayers point to when they argue writers 'couldn't figure out what to do' with Elizabeth in Season 2, but my opinion is, well, as head of Atlantis she's not out exploring. I like the moments where she is leader and friend--and that's that. I didn't expect her to have some kind of major significance every single episode, and I like seeing her here in just a supplemental capacity. She'll have a lot more 'importance' in upcoming episodes like "The Lost Boys/The Hive" and "Critical Mass".

But here, we get her making decisions and being a little snotty with Caldwell. Which is always enjoyable to see:

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora046.jpg[/IMG]
Close enough?

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora072.jpg[/IMG]

The Aurora sequences themselves were really coolly shot--and as a film buff/tv buff/ *cough* NERD I have to say I love the filtering they did on all the sequences inside the virtual mainframe--those just look AWESOME!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora091.jpg[/IMG]
Hrm. Teyla and Ronan are left alone again. Hrm.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2106.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2134.jpg[/IMG]
Watch out John, she's going to suck you into The Phantom Zone--oh, wait, wrong sci-fi spun-off-a-movie/comic book-show.

This is more a Rodney&John episode than anything else, and I really liked Rodney's worry--and his attitude inside the ship. Plus, both David and Joe looked good in ancient gear--they should wear it more.

There isn't much to the whole storyline--someone's sabotaging the ship; they figure out who and point out to the captain what's going on. For me, Aurora is really about the look and feel of the episode. The introduction of the idea of a Matrix-like virtual world (which has been reintroduced a couple of times) and the idea Ancients could still be around in various forms.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2328.jpg[/IMG]

I thought the ending was really well done. Not just the captain of the Aurora getting to sign off, but the toast in Elizabeth's office--with, presumably, Jack's send-off champagne--was a nice touch.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2479.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2481.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora2495.jpg[/IMG]

Overall, it's a nice episode. There isn't a whole lot of 'character' development in Aurora, just some good interactions. And REALLY cool editing stuff--I can't get over the blue.



But, as I was going through and getting caps for this, I did notice--it has a lot some funny pictures. So here's a few to get you laughing!

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora019.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora043.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora075.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora068.jpg[/IMG]

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii36/ugahill/SGA%20Season%202/aurora036.jpg[/IMG]

The Ronon/Elizabeth scene was great. I don't think it would have worked as well with another actress (no offence to any of the others on the show, but Torri shines in that sort of stuff. In fact generally *g*). Its also a bit of a callback to their convo in Duet.

Caldwell is still holding a bit of a grudge for Weir kicking his butt in the previous ep, hence the scene at the beginning with him pointing out how "you're not the boss of me".

My biggest gripe was actually that they beamed directly over to the Aurora ala Star Trek, but that is another issue.

I agree it was well shot etc, but it was hard to get worked up about some virtual people who were dead (in effect). Its interesting that they can write a Shep/McKay fest here WITHOUT really sidelining the other characters. Well, at least not for the entire season, but again that's another issue.

For me, the best bits of this ep were on Atlantis. Hence the name, Stargate Atlantis I guess. The toast scene at the end was a nice touch. While these scenes generally come off cheesy if done too often, they are necessary otherwise you would think that their lives start and end when their shifts do.

Not a lot of Sparky in this ep, but with sparky its quality, not quantity, so I can live with that.

@ Eri as per usual, great commentary

@ Reiko, Anuna loving that new sig

[Eri13]

Thanks!

That's my biggest gripe with the people who complained about Weir having too much screen time while not 'being a main character'--because they compared her to Hammond.

I never saw SGA as SG-1. The focal point of SGA was Atlantis, while the focal point of SG-1 was what they discovered off Earth. Two completely different concepts. SGA wasn't about them arriving at Atlantis as a way-station and then what they could discover in the Pegasus galaxy--had that been the case, the show should have been named Stargate: SG-1 Pegasus.

No, the show was about the city first, and how they would survive living there. And Elizabeth, being head of the expedition to the city, would have had a much more important role than Hammond ever did. Hence why she and John were closer than Hammond and O'Neill.

I never got tired of Elizabeth, no matter what she did--even in episodes like "Aurora" she took a blah storyline and made it better. I don't think John would have been nearly as appealing a character, either, without her, because she was written to test him and then get inside his head. She succeeded in both, and we got a character who was much more complex because of it.

For me, John would have turned out more like Cam had he not had Elizabeth--not that Cam was a bad character, but I never felt we knew him like we knew John, and I think we knew John more because of Elizabeth.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Thanks!

That's my biggest gripe with the people who complained about Weir having too much screen time while not 'being a main character'--because they compared her to Hammond.

I never saw SGA as SG-1. The focal point of SGA was Atlantis, while the focal point of SG-1 was what they discovered off Earth. Two completely different concepts. SGA wasn't about them arriving at Atlantis as a way-station and then what they could discover in the Pegasus galaxy--had that been the case, the show should have been named Stargate: SG-1 Pegasus.

No, the show was about the city first, and how they would survive living there. And Elizabeth, being head of the expedition to the city, would have had a much more important role than Hammond ever did. Hence why she and John were closer than Hammond and O'Neill.

I never got tired of Elizabeth, no matter what she did--even in episodes like "Aurora" she took a blah storyline and made it better. I don't think John would have been nearly as appealing a character, either, without her, because she was written to test him and then get inside his head. She succeeded in both, and we got a character who was much more complex because of it.

For me, John would have turned out more like Cam had he not had Elizabeth--not that Cam was a bad character, but I never felt we knew him like we knew John, and I think we knew John more because of Elizabeth.

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! I just posted in the "heretics unite" thread about how my unpopular opinion was that the primary focus of SGA was not the offworld team, it was about the EXPEDITION! I know that several here feel the same way, but current PTB don't seem to nor do some other folks on the forum.

[Reiko]

That's my biggest gripe with the people who complained about Weir having too much screen time while not 'being a main character'--because they compared her to Hammond.

.: ITA. If anything I though Elizabeth should have way more screentime; she's the frakking leader, and for some reason in my mind she has always been the core character. Before Shep, even - she was the first one we saw in 'Rising' and I think that story is sort of told from her perspective.

the show should have been named Stargate: SG-1 Pegasus. No, the show was about the city first, and how they would survive living there. And Elizabeth, being head of the expedition to the city, would have had a much more important role than Hammond ever did. Hence why she and John were closer than Hammond and O'Neill.

.: *groans* Sadly, that first statement seems to be the dirtection that the show is heading these days. Atlantis is not just a mere station or waypoint; it is home.

I don't think John would have been nearly as appealing a character, either, without her, because she was written to test him and then get inside his head. She succeeded in both, and we got a character who was much more complex because of it.

.: Agreed. She seems to be the only person that balances Shep perfectly. Same with her and McKay, who has suffered greatly as a character since the loss of Liz and Carson.

.: I don't think John will ever have the faith and confidence with a leader as he did with Elizabeth ever again.

[Anuna]

Adding my two pennies. I always saw Atlantis like Deep Space Nine - Atlantis is the station, the waypoint and the home, it's the core of the show, where everything begins and where we return to call the day off. SGA would have been much better if the show was anything like DS9 - every character was treated as important, was given the time on screen and the purpose, the war arc actually had sense, and please tell me that Sisko isn't important just because he's the leader and by thatd efinition should stay behind in time of action? Okay, I know we can't exactly call Elizabeth equal to Sisko, but in my opinion she's equally important. She's the frakking leader. THE leader. And just like Reiko pointed out, nobody is albe to balance John out the way she did. he is a better, more complex character thanx to all those interactions with her. I like to say that she taught him how to be a better person and a better leader, and this is why I'm such a sucker for this ship - I can see give and take relationship between them. They make each other better people and in my opinion, that is what love's about.

On the happier note - want smut? Go here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/77370.html#cutid1

Here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/73390.html#cutid1

And here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/72964.html#cutid1

Enjoy.

[Eri13]

.: I don't think John will ever have the faith and confidence with a leader as he did with Elizabeth ever again.

I agree. And I might...might might might might might might might have watched S4 and beyond, even with the crap they pulled with Elizabeth, if that had been reflected in his character. I'm actually willing to give TPTB leeway and don't judge until I've seen the finished product. So though they broke my heart by 'killing' Elizabeth, I could have stuck around if they'd had people miss her.

It's happened before, with me--I hated losing Rose in Doctor Who. The situations were a little different--TPTB of DW liked Billie Piper, she chose to leave--but in terms of character, losing one is still losing one, and in both cases I stuck around to see what life would be like without the character and to give them time to change my mind about abandoning the show.

With DW, TPTB were brilliant--they had fans deal with her 'loss' as The Doctor dealt with her loss, and Season 3 was sort of a healing period for the character and the fans. They didn't fill every episode with Rose references--it was subtly done here and there. But it was realistic, that was the best part. His S3 companion, Martha, was indirectly affected by the memory of Rose, and though nothing was ever mentioned, no comparisons ever made, she felt the weight of it--which lead to her leaving at the end of S3. Just very--true to life. But by S4, he was ready to move on, and so were we. (We do get a guest stint with Rose in S4, but that wasn't known during the making of S3--and overall it was brilliantly done and I'll love Doctor Who and Russell T. Davies forever because of it).

Back to SGA, I don't blame Joe--from what I understand, most of the stuff we did get from Sheppard regarding the loss of Elizabeth was his idea--but losing someone that important to him needed to spur his character into a major dynamic shift. And with John's backstory--the way we saw him go ballistic in TE/TS--it should have been darker and more bitter. He should have been upset. Maybe even a little rogue, which would have been fun for Sam to deal with.

Now, I'm sure John will be antagonistic towards Woolsey, but with Teyla back (I'm totally assuming at this point because I didn't actually see John's reaction to Teyla's kidnapping) I still don't see him going dark and angry. He'll be laid back ol' John, with one or two token episodes of disagreement. Hrm. Sounds...NOT THAT DIFFERENT! *headdesk*

Made of Fail!

Adding my two pennies. I always saw Atlantis like Deep Space Nine - Atlantis is the station, the waypoint and the home, it's the core of the show, where everything begins and where we return to call the day off. SGA would have been much better if the show was anything like DS9 - every character was treated as important, was given the time on screen and the purpose, the war arc actually had sense, and please tell me that Sisko isn't important just because he's the leader and by thatd efinition should stay behind in time of action? Okay, I know we can't exactly call Elizabeth equal to Sisko, but in my opinion she's equally important. She's the frakking leader. THE leader. And just like Reiko pointed out, nobody is albe to balance John out the way she did. he is a better, more complex character thanx to all those interactions with her. I like to say that she taught him how to be a better person and a better leader, and this is why I'm such a sucker for this ship - I can see give and take relationship between them. They make each other better people and in my opinion, that is what love's about.

On the happier note - want smut? Go here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/77370.html#cutid1

Here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/73390.html#cutid1

And here: http://anuna-81.livejournal.com/72964.html#cutid1

Enjoy.

DS9 was the only Trek I ever watched, and it was about half the episodes--I jumped ship when the Jadzia Dax left, actually (or was it the Jadzia part of Dax?). I actually know Robert Picardo from that (because he guested in an episode with the totally awesome Doctor BASHIR!) rather than Voyager, which I never watched. But you're right, the dynamic of the station was similar to Atlantis, and I think Elizabeth is exactly comparable to Sisko in relation to the leadership role. Atlantis had a more offworld feel, of course, being grounded on a planet, but if you think of the grand scheme, it WAS about the city. Ask people their favorite episodes, no one goes 'Oooo, THE TOWER!'. Pretty much everyone will agree that the best SGA episodes were the ones where Atlantis was at the core, even the non-Weiraphites.

[Pajus]

Hi, Anuna *waves*. Still waiting for the Sparky Jedi screencap challenge

[gateraid]

Thanks!

That's my biggest gripe with the people who complained about Weir having too much screen time while not 'being a main character'--because they compared her to Hammond.

I never saw SGA as SG-1. The focal point of SGA was Atlantis, while the focal point of SG-1 was what they discovered off Earth. Two completely different concepts. SGA wasn't about them arriving at Atlantis as a way-station and then what they could discover in the Pegasus galaxy--had that been the case, the show should have been named Stargate: SG-1 Pegasus.

No, the show was about the city first, and how they would survive living there. And Elizabeth, being head of the expedition to the city, would have had a much more important role than Hammond ever did. Hence why she and John were closer than Hammond and O'Neill.

I never got tired of Elizabeth, no matter what she did--even in episodes like "Aurora" she took a blah storyline and made it better. I don't think John would have been nearly as appealing a character, either, without her, because she was written to test him and then get inside his head. She succeeded in both, and we got a character who was much more complex because of it.

For me, John would have turned out more like Cam had he not had Elizabeth--not that Cam was a bad character, but I never felt we knew him like we knew John, and I think we knew John more because of Elizabeth.

The Hammond comparison is valid to a point, but only because the leader at times needs to simply further the plot ie approve missions, or question what 'the team' are doing. If Hammond had simply said yes all the time, he would have become superflous fairly quickly. But both O'Neill and Sheppard have interpreted their CO's leaders differently than what they were intended to be, with no lasting consequences (because they are teh leads) which hamstrings EW/GH.

If anything, I would say that the similar relationship to point to in SG1 is actually Hammond/Carter. Except non shippy.

There are many ways where TPTB could have given Weir more screentime, even while staying on Atlantis. I've always seen it (and by extension Elizabeth and Sheppard) as the focal points, which is part of my criticism of an ep like Aurora. It is almost entirely ship based and plays very much like a star trek ep. It's not a bad ep, just a shift in focus.

[SMB_BOOKS]

Adding my two pennies. I always saw Atlantis like Deep Space Nine - Atlantis is the station, the waypoint and the home, it's the core of the show, where everything begins and where we return to call the day off. SGA would have been much better if the show was anything like DS9 - every character was treated as important, was given the time on screen and the purpose, the war arc actually had sense, and please tell me that Sisko isn't important just because he's the leader and by thatd efinition should stay behind in time of action? Okay, I know we can't exactly call Elizabeth equal to Sisko, but in my opinion she's equally important. She's the frakking leader. THE leader. And just like Reiko pointed out, nobody is albe to balance John out the way she did. he is a better, more complex character thanx to all those interactions with her. I like to say that she taught him how to be a better person and a better leader, and this is why I'm such a sucker for this ship - I can see give and take relationship between them. They make each other better people and in my opinion, that is what love's about.

I only watched a handful of DS9 episodes, but I definitely see where you are coming from.

And AMEN to the Sparky thoughts in your post. They do balance each other out and they do make each other better. They are stronger together than they are apart.

[Southern Red]

AMEN AMEN AMEN!!! I just posted in the "heretics unite" thread about how my unpopular opinion was that the primary focus of SGA was not the offworld team, it was about the EXPEDITION! I know that several here feel the same way, but current PTB don't seem to nor do some other folks on the forum.

That does seem to be an unpopular opinion, and I get the idea from everything the current PTB say that they see the show now as just the team. In fact JM has said that they are dropping the ATA gene mythology in relation to John, so to my way of thinking that further marginalizes his character.

I watched every stinking moment of S4 and IMO the character of Sheppard has been fundamentally changed. He had moments where there were glimpses of the Storm/Eye soldier, but they were few and far between. Particularly in TLM, his reactions to profound events were less than you would have expected. Maybe they are portraying him as jaded and worn out, but to me it's just character assassination.

[justhere1971]

That does seem to be an unpopular opinion, and I get the idea from everything the current PTB say that they see the show now as just the team. In fact JM has said that they are dropping the ATA gene mythology in relation to John, so to my way of thinking that further marginalizes his character.

I watched every stinking moment of S4 and IMO the character of Sheppard has been fundamentally changed. He had moments where there were glimpses of the Storm/Eye soldier, but they were few and far between. Particularly in TLM, his reactions to profound events were less than you would have expected. Maybe they are portraying him as jaded and worn out, but to me it's just character assassination.

Amen to that. They've changed Shep drastically. I enjoyed *insert epi name* where, S4 spoiler

Spoiler:

he fed Todd

. That showed to me a little of the ruthlessness that we'd seen in the TS/TE. What was unfortunate, that personality did not carry through the rest of S4.
Interesting line about the ATA gene. This only solidifies my theory on that they are writing him out slowly. I think S5 will be proof of that.

[Eri13]

Amen to that. They've changed Shep drastically. I enjoyed *insert epi name* where, S4 spoiler

Spoiler:

he fed Todd

. That showed to me a little of the ruthlessness that we'd seen in the TS/TE. What was unfortunate, that personality did not carry through the rest of S4.
Interesting line about the ATA gene. This only solidifies my theory on that they are writing him out slowly. I think S5 will be proof of that.

So THAT'S WHY they're bringing in Vega. A new SGA-1 commander! Maybe she'll share some intimate balcony moments with Woolsey.

Listen to me. I sound like an anti-.

In further, more interesting news...because it happens once in a blue moon--I have published the start to an epic story! Here's hoping reviews will kick it in the butt and keep me writing until the end.

It's called 'Testament' and is a general adventure sort of SGA fic, though of course I'm slightly biased on the Elizabeth/John front.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4254289/1/Testament

[Southern Red]

Amen to that. They've changed Shep drastically. I enjoyed *insert epi name* where, S4 spoiler

Spoiler:

he fed Todd

. That showed to me a little of the ruthlessness that we'd seen in the TS/TE. What was unfortunate, that personality did not carry through the rest of S4.
Interesting line about the ATA gene. This only solidifies my theory on that they are writing him out slowly. I think S5 will be proof of that.

That was Miller's Crossing and ITA. I hope he gets a better ending than Elizabeth.

So THAT'S WHY they're bringing in Vega. A new SGA-1 commander! Maybe she'll share some intimate balcony moments with Woolsey.

Listen to me. I sound like an anti-.

In further, more interesting news...because it happens once in a blue moon--I have published the start to an epic story! Here's hoping reviews will kick it in the butt and keep me writing until the end.

It's called 'Testament' and is a general adventure sort of SGA fic, though of course I'm slightly biased on the Elizabeth/John front.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4254289/1/Testament

Welcome to the dark side. I thought the same thing about Vega.

Bookmarked your fic to read later.

[Scary Kitty]

That does seem to be an unpopular opinion, and I get the idea from everything the current PTB say that they see the show now as just the team. In fact JM has said that they are dropping the ATA gene mythology in relation to John, so to my way of thinking that further marginalizes his character.

I watched every stinking moment of S4 and IMO the character of Sheppard has been fundamentally changed. He had moments where there were glimpses of the Storm/Eye soldier, but they were few and far between. Particularly in TLM, his reactions to profound events were less than you would have expected. Maybe they are portraying him as jaded and worn out, but to me it's just character assassination.

WTF?!?!? Where the hell did that gutter-brained moron say that?!?

Sheppard being such a strong natural carrier of the ATA gene was the reason why Weir was able to justify getting Sheppard on the expedition in the first place! Gah! Made of fail, Mallozzi!

Amen to that. They've changed Shep drastically. I enjoyed *insert epi name* where, S4 spoiler

Spoiler:

he fed Todd

. That showed to me a little of the ruthlessness that we'd seen in the TS/TE. What was unfortunate, that personality did not carry through the rest of S4.
Interesting line about the ATA gene. This only solidifies my theory on that they are writing him out slowly. I think S5 will be proof of that.

It must be Darth Mallozzi's revenge. This past year, JoeF has been very vocal in his support of Torri (and Paul McGillion!) and just as critical of the changes that have been made as a result of pushing those two out.

So go ahead, Mallozzi. Go ahead and push out JoeF, too. Because the show will never survive his leaving.