Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[xkawaiix]

Hi all! I'm back again. I got my uncle to record the epi I missed last Friday so I should be able to see it tomorrow.

So, what'd I miss?

[LadyF]

Here it is http://forum.gateworld.net/showpost....postcount=2052

Thanks for the link. Of course he wouldn't say anything definite, it would cause a riot. However saying "Its possible" is so vague. Anything is possible on this show.

[LadyF]

Hi all! I'm back again. I got my uncle to record the epi I missed last Friday so I should be able to see it tomorrow.

So, what'd I miss?

Welcome back Xkawaiix. Hope you had a good trip. So what did you miss well you missed

Spoiler:

a short, but cute cafeteria scene ; Elizabeth defending Sheppard and helping him get his promotion ; Elizabeth looking good in a suit , Elizabeth wearing a horrible lace top ; John looking good in casual clothes ; funny moments between Sheppard and the Asgard ; funny moments between Sheppard and McKay ; cool special effects and Elizabeth officially coming single .

There is more. but I won't spoil it all for you. Enjoy the show.

[xkawaiix]

Eeeep!!!! sounds gewd. So I guess it's settled,

Spoiler:

Weir is NOT married or engaged to Simon.

Sigh, what a relief. And there's more! I gotta keep my eyes open then.

[Ankareeda]

Hi @ all! I'm back again from my trip to Cologne, but in 3 hours we'll drive to Spain. So I have unfortunately not enough time to read all your posts, but I'll do it after my holidays. I'll be back on the 10th of August. Well have nice time and a lot of fun with "Runner" and "Duet". Take care of you! I watched "The Intruder" couple of hours ago and I loved it. *squeee* And Rodney was so funny, like everytime.

Welcome Colonel Sheppard, BloomGate and Rubicon!

Greets, Ankareeda

[Bama]

Can I horn in a moment here? Being a newbie, I've not learned protocol yet. ; )

Spoiler:

This 2nd episode just built upon and towards what is an obvious move by the PTB to bring about a 'shift' in the Atlantis relationship between the two leads. I watched the first season's and I kept thinking 'why in the world are they trying to throw Sheppard and Teyla together when he has so much more chemistry with Weir?'

Was it just me or was their 'chemistry' just not there? Did the Atlantis powers actually intend Teyla to be Sheppard's love interest or was it just a huge ploy from the start? I think it was a ploy and they had every intention of Weir and Sheppard coming closer together as things progressed.

Simon (blessedly and finally) is out of the way emotionally for Elizabeth and my estimation of that entire relationship was that it was based on mutual professional respect and admiration rather than any real loving/sexual male/female feelings. Simon was sort of that 'old shoe' that Elizabeth just couldn't bear to part with. He was her remaining link to her 'old' world before she stepped across the 'gate' into her new one and forged new emotional bonds with new people. The final scene was her decision to break new ground and leave old bonds and emotions behind her and put her newfound life first. She has opened the door for and to Sheppard.

What direction will they go now? In the 'hug' scene from ep one, we see a very surprised Sheppard. I think he will continue to be that as the new Elizabeth continues to blossom and unfold in front of him. She is really fighting not to put her growing feelings for her commander out there. Every facial tick, every worried glance and small interaction has 'personal' written all over it from her. I think we'll see Sheppard confused and dumbfounded and floundering a bit with it. It is something he didn't expect and the character, being such a maverick -does like to take chances when HE controls the dice. Elizabeth would be his equal in many ways-his superior in others and I think we'll see him wrestle with the idea of her being 'out of his reach and league'.

Of course, these are just my own projections but I think one thing is certain. Something is brewing and in time and opportune moments, it will rise to the top and sizzle over.

Just some thoughts from a newbie...

-Bama ; )

[xkawaiix]

Hi Bama and...

Welcome!!!!!!

I love the way you put everything out and in such detail! Anyway, I just wanted to say that and that you need to use some spoiler tags please, some ppl don't really like being spoiled.

Post again soon!

[Alaskhah]

Hi Alaskhah, welcome to the thread.

I see you swing both ways eh?

ROFLOL!! Thanks! I guess the way I see it, if you keep your options open, you'll be happy no matter what!

[Buggy542]

ROFLOL!! Thanks! I guess the way I see it, if you keep your options open, you'll be happy no matter what!

LOL... Hiya Hah!!!

Welcome, Bama! It's great to see some new faces around! (not that I don't appreciate the older ones... ) And yeah, spoiler tags are always appreciated.

[manybleemsago]

They didn't say how long it was, but obviously they had to wait for the Daedalus to get there, which would have taken eighteen days, and then there was something in there about Simon having two weeks to make the decision. I honestly can't remember the exact line. I'll have to check it later.


Hmm. This is something I'd actually like to discuss. Everyone assumes that Simon's all supportive of her bopping around the globe, going into dangerous places to do important work... but why is that assumed? I don't think their relationship was all that rosy, or that Simon was content to sit at home. MF and I were talking about this the other night, and she did remind me that when we first met Elizabeth Weir in SG-1, she was a professor at Georgetown University. This would have curtailed her globetrotting, since it's not unreasonable to expect a professor to stay put most of the time. Is it possible that Simon was unhappy with her running off all the time and wanted her to take that post as professor so she'd be home more?

I just don't think Simon was all that supportive of her career — the only evidence we've seen of that was in Home, and Elizabeth knew there was something wrong with Mist!Simon. It's one thing to be grateful that she's alive. It's another to be giving gifts and be all fuzzy-wuzzy about it.

Melyanna, sorry it's taken me this long to get back to you. I ended up actually having to get a bunch of work done. Imagine that.

Spoiler:

Anyway. I see Simon as being extremely passive - maybe he wouldn't like her choices, but he doesn't fight her over them either, (i.e., she can count on him not to rock the boat.). I get that impression from the fact that Elizabeth thought nothing of sending him a video message informing him of her plans. Like it was nothing unusual for her to be commanding him, and he just goes along with it. This is their normal relationship. Btw, I think that initial impression was only reinforced by Intruder, because he so passively put up with her behavior (even her presence) when he had no good reason to do otherwise. And his decision not to tell her would seem to stem from that same passivity. Like he was saying, "Fine, I'll put up with her, listen to her, and just ride this out, because she's going to be gone in just awhile. And since she's already cut me loose, I don't have to tell her about this other person. Which is great, because I'd hate to have a potential ugly confrontation about that ." But she ignored his body language, his lack of commital, everything that was saying "just leave me alone", and backtracked and tried to do the romantic dinner thing. She basically forced his hand and so he had to tell her that he'd met someone else. In other words, she brought what happened to her on herself. It's not Simon's fault when that happens.

But what if it's been more like you said. He's been unsupportive, he's complained, she's done what she likes anyway. She being a professor at Georgetown doesn't seem to have hindered her in any way - which is why she was personally handpicked by the President to take over the job in Colorado. If she was so tied down - and had been for awhile - he wouldn't have bothered with her as his top pick. So what this implies is that Simon is either 1)supportive/passive or 2) unsupportive/passive. He still gets a message informing him what she's decided to do; gets left hanging for a year; and then finally gets a message cutting him loose. No matter how we look at it, it appears that Simon's worst flaw is that he was involved at one time with Elizabeth - and she looks like the world's worst jerk. (thanks so much, ptb. )

This thought makes me so down, because she could be so much better than this. We deserve that. Torri, God love her, deserves that. Still, they can rescue her integrity by having her acknowledge her faults, and because of John's friendship and love, grow not only as a leader, but as a person.

Sigh.

You know, it's interesting talking about this, because it helps me to see why I always reacted so badly to anything that made it seem like they were trying to make Sheppard subservient or unequal to Elizabeth. In other words, a clone of Simon. I've always wanted them to make sure that Sheppard would raise holy h*ll if Elizabeth ever pulled a video tape stunt with him, if they were in a comparable relationship. I wouldn't have said it before the season premiere, but I'm pretty confident now that John wouldn't stand for it. He'd do whatever it took to get in her face about it. And I'd say, good on him if he did. )

[Bama]

Also Weir is now officially single. [/spoiler]

Very nice point.

Spoiler:

And might I add that she is not only officially 'single'-she is officially very aware of that fact now. The old and comfortable have been intentionally put in the past for her and she is ready to get on with getting to 'know' her new life. I liked the resolve in the final scene we sensed within her and the acceptance. I really do think we'll all be seeing a 'new' Elizabeth this season and one that we'll cheer for and love more and more. I also think we won't be the only ones falling a little bit harder for her. A certain yummy looking man looked like he'd been punched in the gut by her last week. My bet is that she punches him another time or two before the season is out and after enough of it, ol Shep will get his gut full and do some yummy 'punching' and 'prodding' of his own. Their slowly evolving male/female relationship has the potential to be a very entertaining one if it's handled correctly by the writers.

[Bama]

Melyanna, sorry it's taken me this long to get back to you. I ended up actually having to get a bunch of work done. Imagine that.

Spoiler:

Anyway. I see Simon as being extremely passive - maybe he wouldn't like her choices, but he doesn't fight her over them either, (i.e., she can count on him not to rock the boat.). I get that impression from the fact that Elizabeth thought nothing of sending him a video message informing him of her plans. Like it was nothing unusual for her to be commanding him, and he just goes along with it. This is their normal relationship. Btw, I think that initial impression was only reinforced by Intruder, because he so passively put up with her behavior (even her presence) when he had no good reason to do otherwise. And his decision not to tell her would seem to stem from that same passivity. Like he was saying, "Fine, I'll put up with her, listen to her, and just ride this out, because she's going to be gone in just awhile. And since she's already cut me loose, I don't have to tell her about this other person. Which is great, because I'd hate to have a potential ugly confrontation about that ." But she ignored his body language, his lack of commital, everything that was saying "just leave me alone", and backtracked and tried to do the romantic dinner thing. She basically forced his hand and so he had to tell her that he'd met someone else. In other words, she brought what happened to her on herself. It's not Simon's fault when that happens.

But what if it's been more like you said. He's been unsupportive, he's complained, she's done what she likes anyway. She being a professor at Georgetown doesn't seem to have hindered her in any way - which is why she was personally handpicked by the President to take over the job in Colorado. If she was so tied down - and had been for awhile - he wouldn't have bothered with her as his top pick. So what this implies is that Simon is either 1)supportive/passive or 2) unsupportive/passive. He still gets a message informing him what she's decided to do; gets left hanging for a year; and then finally gets a message cutting him loose. No matter how we look at it, it appears that Simon's worst flaw is that he was involved at one time with Elizabeth - and she looks like the world's worst jerk. (thanks so much, ptb. )

This thought makes me so down, because she could be so much better than this. We deserve that. Torri, God love her, deserves that. Still, they can rescue her integrity by having her acknowledge her faults, and because of John's friendship and love, grow not only as a leader, but as a person.

Sigh.

You know, it's interesting talking about this, because it helps me to see why I always reacted so badly to anything that made it seem like they were trying to make Sheppard subservient or unequal to Elizabeth. In other words, a clone of Simon. I've always wanted them to make sure that Sheppard would raise holy h*ll if Elizabeth ever pulled a video tape stunt with him, if they were in a comparable relationship. I wouldn't have said it before the season premiere, but I'm pretty confident now that John wouldn't stand for it. He'd do whatever it took to get in her face about it. And I'd say, good on him if he did. )

Great post! I agree with so much of this. The Sheppard that I think we'll see come out of this changing relationship will be one that will stand toe to toe with her and give as good as he gets. I do think there will be a 'transitional'-sort of What the HELLo? period but once Shep gets through that, he won't take off of her in any form of their relationship. I can see where the writers could use a personal 'friendship' and professional 'chain of command' sort of thing to raise some hairs between Liz and Shep.

I believe Elizabeth has always called the shots and she enjoys doing so and yeah-I'd call it a fault of hers. And it's one that the writers could really take off with for the character and the growing Shep/Weir relationship. I'd love to see her have to come to an acceptance with Shep that they would 'share' 50/50 in any relationship they had. I think the journey would be intense and exciting for her as well as the audience. She would come to a point where she would have to clean up her faults if she wanted something badly enough. No streamrolling. Good adult, real compromise. I'm telling you guys, this ship is gonna make us want to pull our hair out at times but it has a lot of potential to be a really terrific one. You can't bottle chemistry and these two have it.

-Bama ; )

[Rubicon]

OK! I nominate this page as the best page ever in this thread!!! I'd quote all my favorite parts, but I just need to scroll up to see them. Great posts tonight.
And how I wish S/W would develop in the ways speculated! I've watched too much Farscape, and now know a sick n' twisty hot love story can & should happen alot in SciFi.

Shipping is such a sickness.

[Royal_Nonesuch]

First of all, there have been some great observations about Inturder--very enjoyable to read them. Secondly that doctored pic of Simon is horrifying! lol.


I believe Elizabeth has always called the shots and she enjoys doing so and yeah-I'd call it a fault of hers. And it's one that the writers could really take off with for the character and the growing Shep/Weir relationship.

Good points. I think Weir has already grown because of her relationship with Shep. She fought with him Iparticularly in "Hot Zone"), but we saw in "Intruder" that

Spoiler:

she defended all of his actions and even fought for his promotion

Shep had grown because of her as well. That;s one of the things that makes their relationship so compelling. However, it could laso be interesting to see if Weir becomes more willing to go along with some of Sheppard's crazier schemes and where that will lead them. I think the show really benefits from Weir/Shep interactions/arguments--they really have a lot of depth and connotations--considering that they are the two leaders of Atlantis.

Royal

[Rubicon]

Well I just saw a ton of spoilers pictures at http://eclecticum.com/Stargate/pics.html#atlantis and

Spoiler:

apparently Weir is totally invisible and MIA and, and just plain gone! She's not in one photo doing anything with anyone! Grrrrr.