Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

Thanx Mel and Athena Now my brain doesn't hurt from thinking so much

Hehe loved Wormhole Xtreme!

~MARTIN: ...So three shots disintegrates them.
DELUISE: Okay, you know what? I'm gonna pretend you didn't say that because that is quite possibly the stupidest thing I have ever heard you say.

Oh and the ref Athena mentioned ~

MARTIN: You have two way travel through a wormhole.
BIGWIG: So?
DeLuise shrugs and mouths `I know'
MARTIN: That's impossible. Matter can only move one way through an open wormhole. The scene is scientifically unsound

..........

O'NEILL: Great show. Hey Marty, what makes you so sure matter can only travel one way through a wormhole?

MARTIN: I don't know, I must have read it somewhere.

[Athenaktt]

The ship poll that I posted earlier in the week hasn't closed yet...so I figure Elizabeth can use as much support as she can get.

Even though this poll is completely inaccurate and we can vote gabillion times in one sitting if one didn't have anything better to do.

But I'm bored.

http://www.sciencefictionbuzz.com/sgapolls.html

[Tomcatter]

Went back and read some of the thread now that my computer isn't totally slow... thanks for the b-day wishes SL and Lida!

What was up with Teyla in intruder? I like her character and want more development for her, but she was too OTP happy in the end of this ep. Weird. But I did like the fact she was concerned for Elizabeth.

McKay/Shep interaction was great!

[LoveYouBaby]

I thought she was too concerned with Weir also, it was weird. Happy and all, at least Teyla now knows how to use a Tablet PC.

Therefore I got the impression Teyla was in command of Atlantis whilst Weir was gone.

[Flowerbud]

Hi everyone,
I really liked this episode. It was great to see Liz being relaxed and confident and playing the political game so well. I didn't think that first scene was particularly shippy, but it was nice seeing them relax and chat about non-work stuff, building a genuine friendship between them. I think Shep's greatest competition for Liz will be work. Simon clearly couldn't handle it.
BTW, could someone post or send me an message how to use the spoiler blanking feature. I read the FAQ, but it doesn't explain in any detail how exactly done. I don't see a spoiler button anywhere. Thanks.

[Vixen]

Spoiler:

I loved the chase with the ships. That was just fab. I didn't hate the dress that Elizabeth wore but it did make her look older
It was great seing Elizabeth and John being so comfortable in the first scene. I loved the expression on John's face when she told him about the opinions. I'm sure he wasn't aware of her role in his promotion but his face was like oh, I see. Anyway it was funny
And also VERY nice touch with the whole name changing thing after John's flashback. It flowed perfectly first with Colonel (from the flashback and then to the present) to which he didn't respond and then when she called his name and he heard her.
Can't forget Hermy's Crap indeed comment LOL!

[Egeanin]

All you have to do is:
[ spoiler ] spoiler text in here [/ spoiler ]

That's all there is to it! Just without the spaces.

And to keep this post somewhat on topic, I loved Intruder. It showed the characters in a more personal way, especially Elizabeth and John. Oh, and I agree completely about Simon's hair. Who would ever want to date him?

[manybleemsago]

Well, I got to see the tape of the episode today. Quite a mixed bag (but overall I'll give 4 stars out of 5.

Spoiler:

The first scene between John and Elizabeth was pretty good, better than I thought it'd be. Unlike other people, I thought it was kinda shippy, and like other people, thought it too short. When I watched it the second time, I thought there was just a tiny bit of poignancy to it because of the breakup with Simon. I don't think I'm imagining it - she definitely looks like she's flirting with John in a more overt way (and she's doing it on purpose because of what happened on Earth), and he realizes that she's doing it (but not the reason why). And when she's talking about her inability to sleep, there is absolutely a look of sadness that she's very much trying to hide. And her frustration with how long it's taking to get back to Atlantis, is, imo, another very subtly played element. Like what's really going on in her mind is, why the *bleep* is this taking so long - I just want to get as far away from Earth as possible and get back to my home in Atlantis with the people I feel safe with (including the guy sitting across from me).

Ok, I've watched that scene 3 more times. I'm pretty sure I'm not imagining it. So I just want to say, thank you Torri, for paying attention to little things like this! It's stuff like this that makes me hang in there with this character...

Oh, and I don't want to forget - tptb really scored a big one in the Weir-needs-to-admire-Sheppard department. Her fighting for his promotion because she thought he deserves it was great. Now, if only tptb would stop shooting the character every time they make progress with her, I'd be happy. So here's the mixed bag part...

They really hurt her by not paying attention to continuity with LFP. And to have her deal with Simon in a such an illogical way - PTB, pay attention - Relationship 101 tells us that when one partner wants the other partner to change their mind, they don't scream at them first, and then try to butter them by having a nice dinner! Guys, it's not that hard...and it certainly would help Weir be more likeable if she did behave in a normal, mature way.

Ok, end lecture.

I now hereby offer my services to tptb, in order to advise them on how to write Weir more sympathetically. Just pm me guys. Seriously.

[Easter Lily]

Oh, and I agree completely about Simon's hair. Who would ever want to date him?

You'd be surprised... Myself, I wouldn't...
But he's also a doctor... and if some women like bald men so I daresay there will be women who have a thing about men who have hair like fir trees...

[LadyF]

I now hereby offer my services to tptb, in order to advise them on how to write Weir more sympathetically. Just pm me guys. Seriously.

Also to the wardrobe department, lace top/thing on Weir bad , suit good. And anytime you can get Sheppard in casual wear great. If you guys need any help you can ask us and we will be happy to help.

[SallyLizzie]

Spoiler:

They really hurt her by not paying attention to continuity with LFP. And to have her deal with Simon in a such an illogical way - PTB, pay attention - Relationship 101 tells us that when one partner wants the other partner to change their mind, they don't scream at them first, and then try to butter them by having a nice dinner! Guys, it's not that hard...and it certainly would help Weir be more likeable if she did behave in a normal, mature way.

Spoiler:

Actually, i'd have been rather unhappy if she hadn't gone and seen Simon, as IMO that would have been unatural and somewhat coldhearted. Yes, she told him to move on in LFP bc it was the right/mature/sensible/logical thing to do. But that didn't stop her from caring about him, so it makes sense that when she got back to Earth she would want to see how he was doing.

I can understand her being angry with him. He's been given the opportunity to participate in an amazing historical adventure and the chance to spend the rest of his life with her but he wont committ. It's an instinctual resonse to scream at him.

As for the dinner, he's told her he needed time to think and that's what he's got. It's not unrealistic for Liz to cook a nice romantic meal when she thinks that he will come around, especially when it means that they can continue their relationship, which is something that she has no reason to doubt he would want to do.

I think Simon was bang out of order in waiting so long to tell her he had moved on. His first words to her should have been along the lines of 'I'm so glad your okay. I was really worried about you. I got your message, and took your advice. I've found happiness with someone else and i hope you get a chance to do the same.' To me, that would have been the adult, mature thing to do.

[Flowerbud]

ManyBleemsAgo wrote:

Spoiler:

They really hurt her by not paying attention to continuity with LFP. And to have her deal with Simon in a such an illogical way - PTB, pay attention - Relationship 101 tells us that when one partner wants the other partner to change their mind, they don't scream at them first, and then try to butter them by having a nice dinner! Guys, it's not that hard...and it certainly would help Weir be more likeable if she did behave in a normal, mature way

Spoiler:

I think she had a right to be upset. He strung her along. It seemed like he initially gave her the impression that he wanted to continue the relationship and then dropped his bombshell that he met someone else weeks later when it was make or break time. I thought Simon came off like a real jerk. I suppose he wasn't able to forgive her after all for the video message.

Thanks Egeanin and Vixen.

[Rubicon]

Here's a hilarious recap of "Intruder" (mature language alert! )


hmmmm... now how do I make a link?...

http://www.livejournal.com/users/msp...50.html#cutid1


Oooh! It did it on it's own, like magic!

[manybleemsago]

Spoiler:

Actually, i'd have been rather unhappy if she hadn't gone and seen Simon, as IMO that would have been unatural and somewhat coldhearted. Yes, she told him to move on in LFP bc it was the right/mature/sensible/logical thing to do. But that didn't stop her from caring about him, so it makes sense that when she got back to Earth she would want to see how he was doing.

I can understand her being angry with him. He's been given the opportunity to participate in an amazing historical adventure and the chance to spend the rest of his life with her but he wont committ. It's an instinctual resonse to scream at him.

As for the dinner, he's told her he needed time to think and that's what he's got. It's not unrealistic for Liz to cook a nice romantic meal when she thinks that he will come around, especially when it means that they can continue their relationship, which is something that she has no reason to doubt he would want to do.

I think Simon was bang out of order in waiting so long to tell her he had moved on. His first words to her should have been along the lines of 'I'm so glad your okay. I was really worried about you. I got your message, and took your advice. I've found happiness with someone else and i hope you get a chance to do the same.' To me, that would have been the adult, mature thing to do.

SallyLizzie,

Spoiler:

I wasn't arguing that she shouldn't go see him. I agree, it's the mature thing for her to do. I have a problem with the way the conversations went. I'm essentially agreeing with whoever said that she came off as shrewish (though I also agree that there was probably a lengthy conversation that led up to the yelling that might have helped us understand the scene better). The overall effect was bad for the character.

Maybe the issue is that I still go by what her character started out as: calm, reasonable, diplomatic Weir. That's changed in a hurry. And that's fine - just please explain why that has happened, and how the character is reacting to those changes.

Flowerbud wrote:

Spoiler:

I think she had a right to be upset. He strung her along. It seemed like he initially gave her the impression that he wanted to continue the relationship and then dropped his bombshell that he met someone else weeks later when it was make or break time. I thought Simon came off like a real jerk. I suppose he wasn't able to forgive her after all for the video message.

Flowerbud,

Spoiler:

See, I see Simon more sympathetically. From his vantage point, Elizabeth treated him dismissively by sending him a video message, and then strung him along for a year, to only just recently in LFP telling him to go ahead and find someone else. But he's the one who gets busted in the chops for stringing her along, for what, half a day? Okaaaayyy. From what I can see, he's actually been extremely gracious to Elizabeth through this whole thing. I think he deserved better than he got.

Here's another entry on my wish list:

1) Elizabeth makes a comment (maybe just an aside, really) that she apparently has trouble with relationships. Any kind of comment that would make her seem more human and fallible. Less, "I'm always right, and you're always wrong, and no matter how stupidly I behave, you'd better accept it."

2) Elizabeth says something about how she's always tried to be, well, more diplomatic in her dealings with people, and how she personally dislikes some of the raw, in your face politicking she's had to engage in (e.g., her scene with Landry and Caldwell.) Again, it makes her more human, and helps the audience understand her complexity.

3) Sometime way in the future, I want John to say to Elizabeth, "Take your clothes off and get on the bed."

[Easter Lily]

Personally, I don't think either Simon or Weir come up smelling like roses in this sorry saga... and to me that's interesting... and realistic...

Spoiler:

Neither seemed to me to rank the relationship very highly in their lists of priorities so why prolong the inevitable? I'm not usually an advocate for couples breaking up (even for television) but frankly speaking I didn't see a lot of commitment to begin with.
I'm beginning to feel that Weir could be an interesting character but I do think that she was a bit naive... or deluded perhaps to think that she could pick up where they had left off after she left without telling him that she was taking off and going to another galaxy. I gather from Before I Sleep that they have had a long history and perhaps he was used to her globetrotting lifestyle... but she had gone off for a year without so much as a proper goodbye and leaves a message telling him to get on with his life. Well, apparently he did. His mistake, however, is not in promptly informing her that there is no status quo. That he had moved on.

That said, I do understand that when someone has been away on a life threatening experience that most of us will never go through, they have a overwhelming feeling of dislocation and displacement. It's bad enough to go to a new place never knowing if you will ever return but to be be constantly fighting for your own life? Compared to the experiences that they've been through, home seems like paradise. For them time stands still... for those that they've left behind... life goes on... but when those who have gone, return, they have a strong desire to cling on to some vestige of the life they left behind to remain. It isn't realistc... just human...
Counterculture shock is very real for expatriates and immigrants... something she talks about with Sheppard in the cafeteria. Weir's been silly, Simon's been silly but guess what... they acting like real people... now that's interesting...