Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[SallyLizzie]

That's a very good point.

Spoiler:

He just assumed that life in Atlantis was over, so seeing her would just make it more painful. Plus judging from his comment to her about every government in the world offering her a job, I think he has her on a bit of a pedestal. He thinks she is out of his league so hasn't even entertained the thought that she might look at him as a man. Yet.

Return Pt 1

Spoiler:

I think he accepted it that it was over for now but didn't give up hope that he'd return at some time, and he'd still fight for that, not in a demanding way but letting Landry know each time a window opened that he was available.

I don't think it went that deep but I agree it's plausible he thinks she's out of his league. There are countless possiblilities to why he didn't go around: putting himself in her shoes - thinking that she'd make contact when she was ready, him not wanting to push her and knowing she'd deal with it in her own time, or maybe he thought she was busy with important business.

In Sateda

Spoiler:

when they had the little talk about feelings, it was a nice reminder of that previous moment. His awkwardness with her even though she's someone he knows very well shows just how reluctant he is to talk about his feelings out of I think a fear of becoming too emotional.

I don't see John as shy and never have. Reserved perhaps, but not shy, and I don't think it's through fear of becoming too emotional. I think it's more a case of him knowing he has trouble expressing himself and just not wanting to make a fool out of himself.

I think it's obvious that John doesn't trust people; or maybe a better way of putting it is that people have to earn his respect and trust. I think Elizabeth has somehow wormed her way past his defences; for some reason he lets his guard down around her. This could be simply because he trusts her, but I don't think that's the whole story. After all, he trusts Teyla and Ronon right? (Personally, I wouldn't pour out my feelings to Rodney) I think the fact that Elizabeth and he have such an amazing natural rapport has a lot to do with his ability to let her in; they just click. He feels completely comfortable around her.

ITA, and I think it's important to note there are different levels/types of trust. My bestfriend in highschool, I trusted with my life but didn't trust her with the smaller things. My BFF - even though I rarely see her anymore - I trust completely. Most of the other people I know, I don't trust. I know they care for me and like me but I don't trust for something I say not to be passed on.

I think with Elizabeth, John knows what he says to her, stays with her. She'd never capitalise on something he confided in her. She might use it to manipulate him on certain issues, but never in a direct manner, and never to her own advantage.

Spoiler:

And then we all know that the dinner scene... Felt so much like home, to all of them. Because it was the first time in the episode that we saw them that comfortable around each other. And especially our boy and girl, of course

The Return Pt 1. [spioler]Very comfortable with easy banter and flirting. Great scene. I'd just like to point out tho, where people are saying John has been trying to forget all things Atlantis as it's too painful, it was Elizabeth who seemed uncomfortable towards the end and made a move to leave. John was the one who seemed to want to stay imo: "Since when do you sleep?" Sally reads as: "Why are you going? Stay." [/spoiler]

Re: Cameron vs. Sheppard.
From what I've seen, Cameron seems like a more 'solid' character, in a way that all of SG1 do. I think that's because SG1 is team focused and so each character gets more screentime and lines than those on Atlantis do (because that show is focussed on more than 4 characters and has been seting a mythos to boot).

ETA: GREAT pick up, Pocus, and I agree on the characterisatiosn and how it would have turned out.

[Luz]

As for the hair, I don't think I'd be able to look at John the same way without it. I'm impressed with his ability to make unmanageable hair look good. I mean, I have crazy hair and if I walked out into public without taking drastic measures to style it (or giving up and pulling it back in a ponytail) people would run away screaming. And the stubble? I personally love it, but I kinda dig the whole rugged thing.

I think Lizzie agrees.

Return 1

Spoiler:

"That's Lieutenant Colonel Yummy for you".

[SallyLizzie]

I think Lizzie agrees.

Return 1

Spoiler:

"That's Lieutenant Colonel Yummy for you".

Hehehe, and he looks like he knows it too!

[A.L.]

I'm tired of the resest button on SGA. Even SG1 went back to revisit events and enemies on a regular basis, so SGA doesn't need to "start over" with every episode.
<snip>

As for Sparky, my feelings have dimmed only because the writers have changed Sheppard. . .again. In season 1, he was the reluctant hero. In season 2, he was the "Babe Magnet". In season 3, he is the shy guy who can't talk to girls. WTF?? There is just no consistency with him anymore.

<snip>

Just my take on it. I guess I'm with Red on this one. Waiting six months for new episodes doesn't help either.

ITA here. There were things about Farscape I didn't like (some stuff they could have just done without) but those people sure knew how to stay consitent or at least not hit the reset button all the time. Which I think, in fact, made it all the better because despite all the horrible stuff that happened (Talyn!John and Grazer drugging up John to take advantage of him, to name a few) in the end they all new what mattered most to them. It took time but they worked it out, became friend again (I'm talking about the whole group) and Aeryn and John even finally got together in the end.

I'm in no way saying TPTB of SGA should follow the entire pattern that Farscape used, but come ON! You can do something that has a huge impact on the show but it doesn't have to kill it. It can simply take it in a new direction or at least help your character develop, which is a big thing for fans and actors alike.

I'd never thought about the Wraith being able to sense a difference in Sheppard, and thinking about it, I don't know if they would. IIRC, Sam was left with naquader in her bloodstream while Sheppard

Spoiler:

had his DNA altered and then changed back to normal so there would be nothing there to sense.

I might be wrong but that's just how I see it.

(Point: Doesn't the Wraith enzyme enter the bloodstream of those who are fed on? Just thinking because

Spoiler:

if it did, even after the Wraith de-wraithified him in CG, there should be trace ammounts left that Wraith could be able to detect.

)

I'm not sure what's going wrong with Atlantis exactly. Watching 3x01 and 3x02 reminded me that they had touched on a really powerful subject

Spoiler:

how Michael was treated, not only by the expedition but the Wraith, and the whole moral implications of Beckett's gene therapy.

Imo, these are very strong topics and quite dark in nature but as much as it got me thinking when watching it, in the however many months since I first saw it, I'd forgotten all about it. Is it the negatives of Atlantis that are overshadowing the positives?

I'm agree with much of this as well. I still love the show, and I still plan to watch it when it comes back on, but there do seem to be some things that are off at the moment. I wish I could elaborate because I'm sure TPTB and writers don't like being told "I don't know how it's broken, but fix it anyway." Leaves too much room for even more error. It's like taking your car to a mechanic and saying "Well it sounds fine and rides smooth but I don't know, there's just something wrong." Or going to a doctor and not giving any symptoms but telling him to make you feel better. He'd probably tell you to go to a shrink cuz you're nuts.

Okay, I'm done with the analogies.

I'm not sure the Wraith being able to "detect" the change in Shep is what should have happened, but there should definitely have been some other lingering things because of his conversion BESIDES just always saying how much he hates bugs. That's NOT not hitting the reset button. That's just a cop-out.

Although, In Common Ground

Spoiler:

the wraith did make mention of Shep being different than any person he's fed on before. Mayhap we be able to hope they actually take that somewhere and bring back the whole bug-bite/conversion thing in an actual story line? Lingering effects?

Here's hoping.

What I would love to see happen between Sheppard and Weir is a huge fight, I want so very much to see them having a big disagreement and shouting match. I'd love to see them getting really angry at each other, anyone remember their disagreement on the Rising (on the balcony)?, imagine something ten times bigger, how hot would that be?, and then <snip> would come the making up.

I think we're all in agreement that a fight is needed now. Part of what is so great about Sparky is the passion (and I mean more than just the romantic kind) that you feel between them. They are both passionate people. With strong emotions and determination behind everything they do. Elizabeth is a peacemaker who fought for so long to make words her choice of weapon. Sheppard is the military man who was trained that talking only goes so far. They both defend what they feel to be right as strongly as they can. And yet, their time together has given them both new perspectives. Sheppard still believes fighting is many times necessary but now he's more willing to try talking first if he can. And Lizzie, as much as she may not like it, she realizes that sometimes, talking only gets you so far and then new options need to be considered.

Okay, I totally segued (SP?) there. Sorry. Let me sum up. Shep/Weir make a great team and have the potential for a great couple. They're intelligent, strong but willing to learn new things. A great couple is made up of people who can teach each other but also learn from each other. A great couple also has big fights but still find their way to the top together.

Um, I agree with this. There were some episodes where I felt he needed to clean up. Same goes for Baltar.

Weir: No one touches teh hair.

I kind of like the black sheeps. Makes them more interesting.

How do you mean he's shy this season?

I'd like to comment on these two points of view but I'm afraid if I do we'll end up with a buzz cut Shep. Oooo! I know! Leave the hair and the occasional stubble but give us DressBlues!Shep once or twice. A tux would be nice as well. One of the cool ones. And Lizzie in a pretty gown. Both getting more than just a head shot in those clothes. We wanna see the whole ensamble. Teyla in a gown as well and Ronon in whatever passes for nice duds to him. No tux. *shudder* They'd clash with the dreds.

<snip> Yeah, I've seen the same self deprecating attitude as always, he's a bit socially inadequate, that's what I love about him, it's a good contrast with Weir's self confidence. And he's got to be a bit of a trouble maker too, Weir is more on the cautious side, he's like the slightly bad boy with a heart of gold, and she's the good girl with a wild side.

They compliment each other so well, don't they?

AL

[SallyLizzie]

Happy Birthday, Luz!

I was looking at the following pics from Coup and Misbegotten and it seems like the things on her desk like to move around. Now I can put that down to the props dept or I can stick my fingers in my ears and pretend there's some significant meaning to Lizzie moving them.

Spoiler:

[CamandVala]

Happy Birthday, Luz!

I was looking at the following pics from Coup and Misbegotten and it seems like the things on her desk like to move around. Now I can put that down to the props dept or I can stick my fingers in my ears and pretend there's some significant meaning to Lizzie moving them.

Spoiler:

Happy Birthday, Luz!
In the pics, it seems like it keeps getting closer to her....

[Southern Red]

I'm in no way saying TPTB of SGA should follow the entire pattern that Farscape used, but come ON! You can do something that has a huge impact on the show but it doesn't have to kill it. It can simply take it in a new direction or at least help your character develop, which is a big thing for fans and actors alike.

Maybe that's what we are all trying to say. Hitting the reset button does not develop characters. Sometimes it seems like they're doing one and occasionally two act plays. Different every time with no relationship to earlier events except on a superficial basis.


I'm agree with much of this as well. I still love the show, and I still plan to watch it when it comes back on, but there do seem to be some things that are off at the moment. I wish I could elaborate because I'm sure TPTB and writers don't like being told "I don't know how it's broken, but fix it anyway." Leaves too much room for even more error. It's like taking your car to a mechanic and saying "Well it sounds fine and rides smooth but I don't know, there's just something wrong." Or going to a doctor and not giving any symptoms but telling him to make you feel better. He'd probably tell you to go to a shrink cuz you're nuts.

Okay, I'm done with the analogies.

If we could fix it, we'd be professional writers LOL. Granted S3 is much better than S2 but still not as good as S1 IMHO. Why? Part may be because they've lost some of the earlier sense of wonder, especially John who was meant to be the "fish out of water" through whose eyes the audience saw the situation. In every conversation like this someone inevitably mentions TS/TE as the ultimate John episode. Interesting, because what you essentially had was an emotional John who was slightly out of control. An early example of doing anything for the team that really got kind of glossed over in S2 when he mostly just tried to avoid fighting. I love Ronon, but I think bringing him in to as JF said "kick ass so I won't have to" changed John in profound ways. They are moving back to soldier John which pleases me greatly and is a fine start on fixing the show IMHO. What else needs to be done? Well, let's see, decide whether Rodney actually knows how to use a gun, pick a persona for Teyla, give Elizabeth and Carson more to do would be a small start. I think Ronon is coming along fine BTW. And since this is the S/W thread I'd add show us that they run the city in tandem. Let's see them planning strategy, eating a meal together for **** sake would the planet stop rotating?, and arguing. They can't agree all the time.

I'm not sure the Wraith being able to "detect" the change in Shep is what should have happened, but there should definitely have been some other lingering things because of his conversion BESIDES just always saying how much he hates bugs. That's NOT not hitting the reset button. That's just a cop-out.

Although, In Common Ground

Spoiler:

the wraith did make mention of Shep being different than any person he's fed on before. Mayhap we be able to hope they actually take that somewhere and bring back the whole bug-bite/conversion thing in an actual story line? Lingering effects?

Here's hoping.

Now that last part would be a very good thing. I want to see Shep and Weir captured by Kolya. Let him bring in another wraith to almost feed on Elizabeth in front of John. Let's see what happens then. I want Kolya to use her as his weakness against him. Once and for all we might find out how he really feels about her.


I think we're all in agreement that a fight is needed now. Part of what is so great about Sparky is the passion (and I mean more than just the romantic kind) that you feel between them. They are both passionate people. With strong emotions and determination behind everything they do. Elizabeth is a peacemaker who fought for so long to make words her choice of weapon. Sheppard is the military man who was trained that talking only goes so far. They both defend what they feel to be right as strongly as they can. And yet, their time together has given them both new perspectives. Sheppard still believes fighting is many times necessary but now he's more willing to try talking first if he can. And Lizzie, as much as she may not like it, she realizes that sometimes, talking only gets you so far and then new options need to be considered.

Okay, I totally segued (SP?) there. Sorry. Let me sum up. Shep/Weir make a great team and have the potential for a great couple. They're intelligent, strong but willing to learn new things. A great couple is made up of people who can teach each other but also learn from each other. A great couple also has big fights but still find their way to the top together.

Some of the very things you mentioned here are used by Liz haters to criticize her as being poorly writtten when really they just want to get rid of her. I think the fact that she's changed is a good thing. If she were still anti-military and wanted to negotiate with the wraith, I'd probably stop watching. The change in John is more subtle, but look at the arguments they had in Rising and HZ and then look at how he reacts to her decisions now. They have a whole new bunch of reasons to argue. None of which TPTB seem willing to expand on.

Spoiler:

e.g. how he always risks his own safety to save others or even her dealings with the IOA. Some of that last just shows how much he trusts her, but I'd like to see how he reacts when brought into the loop fully on how Woolsey manipulated her.

I'd like to comment on these two points of view but I'm afraid if I do we'll end up with a buzz cut Shep. Oooo! I know! Leave the hair and the occasional stubble but give us DressBlues!Shep once or twice. A tux would be nice as well. One of the cool ones. And Lizzie in a pretty gown. Both getting more than just a head shot in those clothes. We wanna see the whole ensamble. Teyla in a gown as well and Ronon in whatever passes for nice duds to him. No tux. *shudder* They'd clash with the dreds.

They compliment each other so well, don't they?

AL

Yes, they do, but sadly I doubt we'll ever see Shep in uniform. The Air Force wouldn't allow it. They'd have to do some sort of generic uniform. Now, a tux is another story. But don't worry, he'll wear one at their wedding.

Happy birthday, Luz!!! Those objects keep getting closer together: the 3 things I love most by Lizzie Weir.

[SGLAB]

Happy Birthday, Luz!

I was looking at the following pics from Coup and Misbegotten and it seems like the things on her desk like to move around. Now I can put that down to the props dept or I can stick my fingers in my ears and pretend there's some significant meaning to Lizzie moving them.

Spoiler:

I can never look at that last picture with a straight face ever again. My eyes keep wandering to a certain silver object in front of Elizabeth. And it's all your fault sally.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY LUZ!

[SallyLizzie]

I can never look at that last picture with a straight face ever again. My eyes keep wandering to a certain silver object in front of Elizabeth. And it's all your fault sally.

Why do I get blamed for everything?

All I'll add to that is it went from not being on her desk, to right up close by her. Closer than Mint Jar or Sedge Pic... must be really important in her life. *las*

I agree on soldier!John. He's much more professional, grown up and alluring in this capacity, and I think seems a stronger character when he's in soldier mode.

[Stef]

[QUOTE=Southern Red;5946337]Yes, they do, but sadly I doubt we'll ever see Shep in uniform. The Air Force wouldn't allow it. They'd have to do some sort of generic uniform. Now, a tux is another story. But don't worry, he'll wear one at their wedding.

Ha Ha. Amen, sister.

AND HAPPY BIRTHDAY LUZ

-Stef

[lizzyana]

Happy birthday Luz

[A.L.]

Yes, they do, but sadly I doubt we'll ever see Shep in uniform. The Air Force wouldn't allow it. They'd have to do some sort of generic uniform. Now, a tux is another story. But don't worry, he'll wear one at their wedding.

Happy birthday, Luz!!! Those objects keep getting closer together: the 3 things I love most by Lizzie Weir.

Why would the air force not allow it? Sam and Jack wore them on several occasions. Unless those were generic as well in which case unless you are in the air force for real you would hardly notice or care. Looks good enough to me. JMO.

AL

[Trialia]

Oh my lord, I am so tired. Today has been a long day!

Okay. I'm a chicken when it comes to the Shep thread, so I'll tell you all about getting to meet Joe today. Cut for those who dun wanna know.

Spoiler:

OMG! Hee! Okay, first off, he doesn't talk a lot, but he seemed kind of shy to me. Friendly, though.

Okay, now me being a lesbian, you can take this into account when I say the following and multiply by heterosexual female standards as you wish!... He has lovely eyes - a sort of luminous shade of green. He's pretty hot, better-looking than on TV, and his accent is a lot broader in person. Slightly beardy today - more than the Shep usually is.

He looked very tired, and I asked him about how he managed to stay awake with all the transatlantic flights, and he said he didn't, he was worn out! and I congratulated him on his and Katherine's new baby and asked his name, he is called Fergus. I talked to him about some of you girls being kinda mad at me for getting to meet him after he cancelled L.A., and he apologised for that and said that he would be going to NY now and if y'all could make that he would try to make up for it. I showed him the portrait of Elizabeth that my best friend drew for my birthday, and he loved it. He said it was very pretty, and that it would be a shame to write on it, but he signed it anyway (I want to get Torri to sign it too, of course. at some point).

I think that's all about Joe in specific. Fun!

[SallyLizzie]

Why would the air force not allow it? Sam and Jack wore them on several occasions. Unless those were generic as well in which case unless you are in the air force for real you would hardly notice or care. Looks good enough to me. JMO.

AL

As far as I know, SG1 was airforce regulated (which is partly why Sam and Jack never seriously got together, and why AT had to cut her hair in S4). Now I don't now if they still are but I'm pretty certain that Atlantis isn't and never has been, so I see no reason why Shep couldn't wear dress blues. Even if they were endorsed by the military I don't see a reason why not. It would just be a case of them checking the uniform before they filmed. I think what they don't allow is certain ribbons.

[La'rosh]

Hey, everyone!

Thought I'd jump into this thread again. (...at the top of the page, it says I last visited in May) As a short explanation, the summer was crazy, this school year is crazy, and I lost touch with almost all my internet frequents for quite a while. Then my best friend pulled me into her new obsession with the Inheritance trilogy (really great books, but anywaay).

I suppose I don't have much to say at the moment, I need to bring back the wordy part of my shippy side. But I do remember alot of times in S3 that I enjoyed moments between John and Liz. I promise I'll be able to think a little better later, but for now I'm just making it known that I'm here. And I don't really expect anyone to remember me.