Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Major_Moomin]

Regarding the 'Sunday' spoilers...

Spoiler:

When I read them this morning, I think I was one of the few that didn't cringe. In fact, I actually smiled. Depending on how it turns out, I think it could be a lovely chance for us to see more of Elizabeth out of her 'leader role'. To see her bring those walls down and enjoy herself as a woman. Maybe we'd see that struggle to maintain professional/persoanl barrier.I know some people don't seem to have faith that TPTB could pull it off but I choose to have faith in them until I see the episode myself. They've done it nicely before, they can do it again. It would be nice for me to see her move on from Simon. And the episode isn't just about Elizabeth, there's other stuff going on. And you never know, There may be a point in where she confides in John.

But my overall thoughts are: Don't judge a book by it's cover. Wait until you've seen the episode before you bash it.

[Vicky]

Mymy, just finished reading the "spoilers" for Sunday. What's interesting is

Spoiler:

the posters seem more worked up about Kirkette Weir than the significance of the bombing. If these spoilers are fairly reliable then it seems this guy is tied to that somehow. Come on, this is Stargate, it doesn't require a high I.Q. to think it's just a coincidence when two new juicy bits are added within the same episode. I would take all this speculation with a grain of salt. All it needs is a few alterations in the script, different editing and one may end up with a totally different story all together. That said, just because Martin Gero wrote the script, it doesn't mean Weir will be portrayed well. Remember? At a convention He didn't consider Shep "sleeping" with 3 or 4 women in two seasons as kirking. (And we thought he really only slept with one! or two at most)
Strangely enough, it didn't bother me at all that Elizabeth gets interested in a younger man. It was more like "after more than two years she finally gets to go on a date, yay!" She's only human and not a nun, and it's about time she had some off-time fun. It would be nice for John to see her in a personal light and get a tad jealous. My only concern would be that the new guy only dates her in order to use her and how humiliating would that be when she finds out.
BTW, I liked Janus as well. I thought he and Elizabeth made a nice couple but unless he builds another time machine, I can't see how they can get together. Oh yeah, forgot about ascension, nope, still can't get together.

Anyway, like I said before, take it all with a grain of salt and just wait for the actual episode, it could be totally different.

I too say we should wait till we now more of the ep, or at least have more spoilers.
But ITA with you Ronnikins,

Spoiler:

it doesn't bother me neither if Elizabeth has an interest in another man. Like you said, she's a woman and well I think she also needs to prove to herself that she can still can seduce men sometimes. And if we get some Jealous!Shep thanks to that, I won't be complaining!

[SallyLizzie]

Haven't read the Sunday spoilers yet so I will comment on that later. However, from reading your posts I will say one thing regarding it:

Spoiler:

Elizabeth hasn't been with anyone (as far as we know) since Simon which would make the new boyfriend a rebound guy (though I'm questioning whether that would still count after such a long time period ). As hot as it would be, I think we want something more for Sparky than John being Elizabeth's blow-out.

Normally I would stay away from XF references (or any other show ref) on this thread but I thought I'd comment on this as it is applicable to Sparky.

(cut to save space. No spoilers)

Spoiler:

Re:Diana Fowley
I didn't have the internet at the time I watched XF, nor did I know anything about fandom. I was heavily into XF, buying most the boxsets and whatever books I could find. I also wanted Mulder and Scully to get together, badly.
I've read various comments where the character of DF is frowned upon, but I never had a problem with her. I actually liked the character and thought it added a nice mix/twist to the M/S relationship. I might be in the minority of this opinion but I doubt it. I think most the viewers either liked or were indifferent to DF.

My point is that we are not the largest/main/most important audience. Shippers might be the more vocal group but we're still a minority, beaten greatly by people who watch the show for entertainment including a Stargate If those pople don't have a problem with a particular character, then TPTB have no reason to cut them from the show (unless there is a MAJOR uproar on the boards, and even then they don't have to change it.

Regarding Kirking:

Spoiler:

I agree with MG that sleeping with four people over two (years?) seasons isn't kirking; not realistically. It seems like kirking because:

a) SGA isn't a show that deals with sexual relationships
b) The episodes he slept with these woman aren't the best plot wise
c) These episodes were placed close together.

This makes the relationship(s) stand out more.

[HelenT]

Is there anything worse than waking up to spoilers that touch on a fic currently bieng written? *sigh*

I was going to wait until it was complete to post, but given the 'Sunday' spoilers...

Spoiler:

i.e. 'the Elizabeth in a budding romance before the storm hits' angle

I've split it into parts and Part One is HERE. This part is PG-13, but the fic will end on an adult rating.

It started out bieng Bama's fic on John's new jacket and then morphed into something else. The jacket will be making recurring appearances though.

On the topic of those spoilers...

Spoiler:

Is anyone else worried the PTB's are trying to give us sparky shippers a message with the whole 'won't get into a relationship with someone who works under her' thing? I.e. making that attitude canon now rather than implied as previously.

[keshya]

since everyone's commenting on 'sunday', I'll put in my 2 cents.

Spoiler:

when I first read the spoilers, honestly my reaction was: 'what the **** is she doing kissing another man?'

but then when I read it again it was like: 'interesting character develepment'

It's true that elisabeth can't keep pounding (?) over simon. come on, it's been over a year. and she knows that she eventually has to move on with her live.
the shipper in me would say that she can't wait forever to see if john makes the first move. so she lets herself get close to this guy to see what reactions she'd get from john. jealousy? indiference? a proclamation of his love for her? (that probably won't happen, but a girl can dream )
the atlantis freak in me would say that elisabeth has grown so much in the past two years and is really feels that comfortable in her role as leader, that she is finally allowing herself to open up to other things, other people and other experiences. she's tired of always shutting everything and everyone out, always feeling the need to keep a professional distance, because she always believed that it would undermine her authority, which she so deperately wants to maintain. she nows starts to believe that it's not necessary to constantly be on guard, to constantly be the leader, to open up once in a while, and still have the respect and devotion of everyone on the base.

of course, if mike turns out to be the one who's responsible for the bombing, it would be interesting to see how she, as a woman, would react to that. see how she copes with the trust she put in that man to be broken.
I think if that would happen, she would close up again. afraid to let those walls down again. but sometimes I'm just the pessimist
I'm hoping it won't come to that. I'm just saying.

[Major_Moomin]

Is there anything worse than waking up to spoilers that touch on a fic currently bieng written? *sigh*

I was going to wait until it was complete to post, but given the 'Sunday' spoilers...

Spoiler:

i.e. 'the Elizabeth in a budding romance before the storm hits' angle

I've split it into parts and Part One is HERE. This part is PG-13, but the fic will end on an adult rating.

It started out bieng Bama's fic on John's new jacket and then morphed into something else. The jacket will be making recurring appearances though.

On the topic of those spoilers...

Spoiler:

Is anyone else worried the PTB's are trying to give us sparky shippers a message with the whole 'won't get into a relationship with someone who works under her' thing? I.e. making that attitude canon now rather than implied as previously.

Iv'e just read your fic over at LJ and it's looking good. Update soon!

Was a bit suprised when I read the summery. My first thought were "Geez, that was written fast!"

[HelenT]

Iv'e just read your fic over at LJ and it's looking good. Update soon!

Was a bit suprised when I read the summery. My first thought were "Geez, that was written fast!"

Thanks, Major_Moomin...and I know what you mean. That's exactly the reason why I posted it as soon as I read the spoilers. *heaves another sigh*

[Trialia]

Hmm. Haven't read the Sunday spoilers yet, but I'll get to that...

Spoiler:

My first thought on reading all the speculation about bringing in a possible love interest for Elizabeth was that this might be in response to Torri's way-back expressed desire for something such. But that might just be my brain fluttering, who knows.

I don't think letting Elizabeth have another relationship is necessarily a bad thing... I just hope they do it well. Not only could it be a kick-off for jealousy from John, it could also be an attempt on her part to distract herself from what's happening with him, and I haven't seen anyone else mention that thought, so I just figured I might as well say it...

'Course, you know, I could be wrong. I only just woke up after all.

[HelenT]

Hmm. Haven't read the Sunday spoilers yet, but I'll get to that...

Spoiler:

My first thought on reading all the speculation about bringing in a possible love interest for Elizabeth was that this might be in response to Torri's way-back expressed desire for something such. But that might just be my brain fluttering, who knows.

I don't think letting Elizabeth have another relationship is necessarily a bad thing... I just hope they do it well. Not only could it be a kick-off for jealousy from John, it could also be an attempt on her part to distract herself from what's happening with him, and I haven't seen anyone else mention that thought, so I just figured I might as well say it...

'Course, you know, I could be wrong. I only just woke up after all.

I like your thinking From your keypad to the PTB's ears!

[Ronnikins]

My bad, all through dinner I was over-analysing "Sunday" to death in my head and this is what I have come up with (because it's officially the weekend here and I'm allowed to indulge).
Coupling this http://www.gateworld.net/news/2006/0...antisiss.shtml with the spoiler thread we can extrapolate a few things

Spoiler:

a)Elizabeth is a workaholic since she works even on her day off. So fanfic has got it right.
b)John and the others must be doing their own things. I'm so used to fanfics where John comes and drag her away from her desk that I'm disappointed it didn't happen here and we got a stranger doing it instead.
c)This has to be the day-off episode Gero was mentioning before but they needed the bombing to spice up the script a bit.
d)In the official GW spoiler it states Weir has a personal policy of not dating anybody under her. So I guess that would include John.
e)This is episode 314 which is about 3/4 the way through S:3 (unless they change the order) so that means NO canon ship yet (but we were expecting that anyway).
f)Does the pier lunch thingie remind you of Sanctuary?
g)This is just personal, but I hope he's a real hottie. And that he really does care for her and the bombing was incidental and not related to his feelings towards her but it causes a rift in their relationship. There, just personal, that, and John gets really jealous, yes. (g) did not make sense but I don't care.......it's Friday pm, sue me......

Edit: Just finished reading your lovely fic HelenT...can't wait for Pt 2...R-rating, huh?

[atlantis_babe34]

These spoilers are so reminding me of season 2 of stargate in "Message in a bottle" when that young officer is "smitten" With sam ahahahahah.. oooh.. i think its would make a good plot line.

[EnfantTV]

Ahlalaaaaaa…. Iv'e just read spoilers for « Sunday »… wahoooo….this will a great Elizabeth’s episode… but it will hard for Shweir... but I think that we will be surprised bu this episode

Spoiler:

Maybe that John is hurt in blast.... and Elizabeth will be at his bedside

JOHN/LIZ

[atlantis_babe34]

We can Only hope.. nar should be a good stretch.. i just hope that no sparky fans are the same as the shipper fans when pete came along.. and hate the guy.. i mean if hes hot theres an exception... but i wouldnt want everybody complaining that hes "breaking them apart"...

[Southern Red]

May as well chime in on Sunday.

Spoiler:

When I first read the spoilers I thought it was a good thing. Liz gets a beau. A young beau. That'll show John. If he can do it numerous times, why can't she do it once? Then reading all the comments here I went through various stages of disappointment, anger *at the writers* and finally resigned to wait and see. *big sigh* There are a lot of "ifs" here. Where is John? Will he even know or care about Mike? The most interesting thing I can say that hasn't been mentioned is that it appears like John and Liz are the only two characters to be getting romances. That tells me that they are "the" couple. *Mulder and Scully anyone?* The Carson/Cadman thing is being handled very casually in a no-big-deal way, causing no angst or conflict. But both John and Liz are getting involved in things that will potentially hurt the other. Hmm? Now go ahead and flame me, *I deserve it* but I have to pop a few balloons. At this point Shep and Teyla could be a couple which has led Liz to think she needs to move on. Season 3 could turn out to be a test of how much agony we can take. TPTB may have set out to prove to us that all their denials of any tension between S/W are true. Then there's nothing left for us to do but convert to Sheylas and let them get on with their original plan. The fact that they went ahead with the day off ep tells me that they listen to fans. But they don't necessarily listen to shippers. Especially us.

[astronomicalchick]

Hmmm.... just popped into to see if you'd

Spoiler:

gone incandescent at the thought of Lizzie having a bloke in "Sunday" and I'm glad to say you've not gone too incandescent.

Here's my take on it.

First of all, he's young and he's cute so that puts paid to the "she's too old for Sheppard cr@p"

Second, he's young and he's cute and yay for Lizzie!

Thirdly, he just takes her to lunch and kisses her, one swallow does a summer not make... er or something...

Fourthly, there will never be canon ship of any persausion this early in the story arc. Why would you want to do canon ship this early when you can keep shippers guessing (and watching)

However, my main issue with this spoiler is WTF has it got to do with the rest of the plot? Perhaps, it will be explained later, but at the moment it's a bit like a curve ball.