Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[atlantis_babe34]

Thats really good .. Well done!

[emotionallydisturbed]

Ooo, Conversion. My favorite of S2.

Spoiler:

It's funny now how worried I was about this one. *kicks TV Guide* Thinking back on how they all hyped the kiss by saying that the Shep/Teyla relationship would change shows that we have to look at all possibilities behind what they tell us. It did change but not the way we expected. This was just a Sparky extravaganza. He had no hesitation to hurt everyone else, but even as far gone as he was near the end was able to control his strength and not hurt Liz. He just wanted to scare her enough to get her to realize how bad it was and either kill him or work harder to help him. The "it's better for both of us" line and the line about "protocol" still haven't been explained properly. Insisting that there's nothing shippy going on has become ridiculous. Liz showed all through this that even though she will stand by him no matter what, she still won't save him if it endangers the others. Proof to me that their relationship can work within their roles as leaders. The infirmary scenes had such a "married" vibe it was impossible to ignore how close they have become.

And now I'm going to step on Sally's toes and rec a fic. I know you won't believe it's me actually doing this, but it's Sheyla/Sparky. UST only, but still. This author has the best handle on both these pairings I have ever seen. At last a truly balanced look at the possibilites of both. She even gets the analysis of LTP correct. Try it. http://irony-rocks.livejournal.com/9492.html

Ha! That's so funny you would rec this! I was actually the one that made her write it. It was a personel challenge from a non-shipper to a multi-shipper, and she totally had me with this. Really believable interpretation of how season one went in the eyes of John.

Oh, I'll be sure to let Irony_Rocks know you rec'ced it. She'll be thrilled.

[Bladefanatic]

I think that was the most significant part of the episode, at least where this relationship is concerned.

Spoiler:

We got affirmation that Elizabeth and John are close (more than we've gotten for any other relationship on the show), but at the same time, we also got evidence that their closeness personally won't interfere with Elizabeth professionally. She seems quite aware of where the boundaries are, and where she has to be leader over friend.

I could not have said it better myself! So I am just stopping by to say a big Ditto! to what Melyanna said about the eps.

...sorry don't really have anything intresting to say...

[Major_Moomin]

I have a more blue-collar solution: I drink more, then I stop caring that it's bad. (10.5 left me with a hangover )

*LOL* At least then you start seeing two Elizabeth's and two John's instead of just one. That could make it better.

[atlantis_babe34]

LOL!.. im of g'night guys!

[Vicky]

Finally! Done with my vid.

Seven (megaupload)
Song: 7
Artist: Prince
Size: 17.4mb
Length: 04:41
Spoilers: Up to and including Allies in S2.
Notes: Tried hard to find clips I hadn't used in my previous vids, but alas some scenes had to be repeated. *coughkisscough*

Plus many thanks to La, Sally, Mel and Athena for their help and feedback.

Beautiful vid!!!

It seems that things are pretty quiet in the thread these days...

[Melyanna]

And I think that - along with 39:30 - is the most important thing that has happened with our ship.

The one thing standing against any relationship is the morals behind it; that favouritism and short-sightedness can be thrown at them. These cases disprove that.

And I wonder if any of the characters have recognized this. Several have made note of the fact that Elizabeth and John have a close relationship, and I wonder if they realize that Elizabeth has been willing to let him die for the greater good on more than one occasion. (I'm not entirely convinced that John is. When he was threatened with Elizabeth's death in The Storm, he said he was going to blow up the city if she were killed. Might have been a bluff, but might not have been.)

I think it's important that others realize this, that others see that they're close to each other, but not blinded by friendship.

(And Vicky, I'll take a quiet thread over people fighting with each other or spamming the thread any day of the week. )

[hopalong]

Just saw 'Epiphany' and 'Critical Mass' won't post much about them at the moment (I want to wait until we're discussing them here and see how much I remember), but I want to make this one observation about 'Epiphany':

Spoiler:

I don't count this as John kirking. He had been there for quite some time, and was nursing some resentment about being abandoned. The fact he had been there for six months and had not made a move for most of that precludes kirking. He was annoyed with Elizabeth when they finally got there, remember.

Of course, this is just mho.

PS, in regards to xfkirsten's hangover... 10.5?

[hopalong]

lol Nice work!.. leave the hair!

Thanks. I don't usually get the chance to post captions. It's nice to know that I occassionally have the touch everyone else seems to have.

[LurkerLa]

And I wonder if any of the characters have recognized this. Several have made note of the fact that Elizabeth and John have a close relationship, and I wonder if they realize that Elizabeth has been willing to let him die for the greater good on more than one occasion. (I'm not entirely convinced that John is. When he was threatened with Elizabeth's death in The Storm, he said he was going to blow up the city if she were killed. Might have been a bluff, but might not have been.)

I think it's important that others realize this, that others see that they're close to each other, but not blinded by friendship.

(And Vicky, I'll take a quiet thread over people fighting with each other or spamming the thread any day of the week. )

I know I'm getting a bit ahead in the episode discussion here, but (TLG spoilers)

Spoiler:

While John might not have been entirely prepared to let Elizabeth die for the greater good early on in the show, I think it's an important shift when we see him shoot Phoebus/Elizabeth in TLG. Yes, logically he would have known that it wasn't her, and yes, he had the experience to know that she wasn't in charge of her actions, but that was still Elizabeth's body walking towards him, and he didn't hesitate at all to zap her. It's not quite the same as being willing to let her die, and it was in part a measure to save his own life since she was intent on killing him , but I still think of it as a turning point.

I think that demonstrates one of the big differences in the way John and Elizabeth approach their responsibilities. As we saw in Conversion (and elsewhere)

Spoiler:

Elizabeth can put aside any friendship or feelings she has for John and sacrifice him for the greater good, to prevent the deaths of many and save the one.

John, on the other hand, doesn't seem willing to sacrifice anyone but himself.

Eek, I'm getting rambly and making little sense, but that also makes me think. More Conversion spoilers:

Spoiler:

Okay, I haven't watch this in a while, but I seem to recall that John tried to insist that Elizabeth send more people back to the bug cave in order to help him. I was just thinking that I like this scene because we get to see John acting slightly out of character (i.e. asking her to risk more people on his behalf, when normally he'd be the one taking the risks).

I'm sorry, I'm really not making much sense - I blame lack of sleep and distractions this morning...

[Major_Moomin]

And I wonder if any of the characters have recognized this. Several have made note of the fact that Elizabeth and John have a close relationship, and I wonder if they realize that Elizabeth has been willing to let him die for the greater good on more than one occasion. (I'm not entirely convinced that John is. When he was threatened with Elizabeth's death in The Storm, he said he was going to blow up the city if she were killed. Might have been a bluff, but might not have been.)

I think it's important that others realize this, that others see that they're close to each other, but not blinded by friendship.

I certainly don't think that Caldwell does. I think we've ony ever seen it from Rodney this season.

Spoiler:

He knows they have a deeper friendship than his own with Elizabeth because he used it to his advantage in Trinity. And yet he saw how much it affected Elizabeth when she allowed John to leave in Seige II...I distinctly remember the look of shock on his face when he realised what was happening. And then there's conversion. He, and the rest of the team, knew that she was willing to let him die in order to prevent more lives being taken.
We don't see enough from Teyla or Ronan's POV, which is a shame really.
And actually, I think Carson sees it too...persuading Elizabeth to talk to John as a means of calming him. Even if it failed miserably.

It's hard to say if it's the same for John. We haven't really seen Elizabeth in real peril on her own apart from The Storm. I think that's what we need this season.

EDIT: Completely forgot about TLG.

Spoiler:

When Teyla knew that John would shoot Elizabeth either way. Granted, he was only going to stun her. But he didn't let harming her affect what needed to be done.

[gwenhwyfar]

[SIZE="3"]
PS, in regards to xfkirsten's hangover... 10.5?

I think she is talking about a made for tv movie that aired a few years ago. It was a disaster movie about earthquakes plaguing the west coast. It ended with

Spoiler:

Half of California breaking off into an island.

Personally I love overly cliche disaster movies. I'm really looking forward to tonights sequel to 10.5.

Ok...on-topic...Sparky...pic anyone?

[mirafemina]

I certainly don't think that Caldwell does. I think we've ony ever seen it from Rodney this season.

Spoiler:

He knows they have a deeper friendship than his own with Elizabeth because he used it to his advantage in Trinity. And yet he saw how much it affected Elizabeth when she allowed John to leave in Seige III...I distinctly remember the look of shock on his face when he realised what was happening. And then there's conversion. He, and the rest of the team, knew that she was willing to let him die in order to prevent more lives being taken.

The look on Rodney's face

Spoiler:

when he realises Shep is in the puddle jumper kills me! He looks so completely shocked that Elizabeth would let him go on a suicide mission. I can't remember if she even responds to his "You let Sheppard go in a jumper?!" (not sure of exact dialogue), I think she just looks at him with such a steely yet sad expression. Poor McKay thinks he's lost his best mate! I get the impression he's more bothered with how Shep's demise will make him sad as opposed to being concerned for Elizabeth losing her boyfriend. I don't think he was a sparky shipper at this point in the timeline.

And something about Conversion that bugs me (pun only slightly intended) -

Spoiler:

Elizabeth refuses to kill ShepBug while he still looks like Shep (only blue and a little scaly) because (sob) she lurves him etc (that's my view anyway), but odds are that she'll have to order him killed when he's completely bug. She's just delaying the inevitable. I know that killing him would kind of screw up the cast list of the show, but hey, I think it's kind of cruel and shortsighted of her to keep him alive and in distress for so long. And why the hell wasn't he in the cells that Steve/Bob/Michael used?

Despite that, I really really like Conversion. Especially as we see Shep in blue. *sigh*

[Major_Moomin]

The look on Rodney's face

Spoiler:

when he realises Shep is in the puddle jumper kills me! He looks so completely shocked that Elizabeth would let him go on a suicide mission. I can't remember if she even responds to his "You let Sheppard go in a jumper?!" (not sure of exact dialogue), I think she just looks at him with such a steely yet sad expression. Poor McKay thinks he's lost his best mate! I get the impression he's more bothered with how Shep's demise will make him sad as opposed to being concerned for Elizabeth losing her boyfriend. I don't think he was a sparky shipper at this point in the timeline.

I think that is one of my favourite moments from season 1. She held her head high when Rodney turned to her. But as soon as he looked back to the screen, her resolve broke. Her face crumbled. Like it took all of her strength to hold it in.

[mirafemina]

Ha! That's so funny you would rec this! I was actually the one that made her write it. It was a personel challenge from a non-shipper to a multi-shipper, and she totally had me with this. Really believable interpretation of how season one went in the eyes of John.

Oh, I'll be sure to let Irony_Rocks know you rec'ced it. She'll be thrilled.

Man, that was a fantastic fic! I never thought I could read about any kind of Sheyla UST, but the writing was so good.

Watched Allies again last night and am feeling kind of upset.

Spoiler:

First time I saw it I was screaming at the tv "it's all going to go to hell!" but Lizzie and co ignored me. This time I tried to distance myself from the drama, and only yelled it a few times. Dare I say it, they should have all listened to Teyla and her wraith spidey sense. Oh, and I noticed that there were no 'dr weir' and 'colonel sheppard' conversations between sparky, it was first names all the way!

Sorry to drag the talk away from Conversion. Someone want to pick up where it left off?