Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[mentalmichael]

Fanfic rec: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2514392/1/

Published ages ago but only just stumbled across it, really good.

[Dorka]

I agree with everyone. I don't want Sparky to become the focus of the show. If I want to watch a soap opera I'll watch Passions.

*sigh* I wrote a little Sparky fluff fic.

I Wanted It To Be Different
Spoilers for TLG.

And thanks PM!

That's a very sweet one Like it

[Dorka]

Fanfic rec: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/2514392/1/

Published ages ago but only just stumbled across it, really good.

Which reminds me, that Chapter 10 of Bronze by Logica is finally up I'm still in love with this AU-Fanfic

[Chrysalis]

I definitely gotta agree with SallyLizzie here. I think it should remain in the background, with hints every so often so we know it's there, but not taking over the show or anything. After all, as much as I love Sparky, that's not the whole point of the show. It'd be great to get hints about it - smiles, lines dropped sometimes, the occasional kiss - but not to the point where it distracts the viewer from the series.

Although I do think it would be interesting, if it were to happen, to see an episode where their relationship would be a focal point. Not necessarily in a parsonal was, but more of a professional way. For instance, their relationship is brought to the forefront in the normal dealings of Atlantis, maybe by contact with another planet that draws attention to it. So it's not like random Sparky drama, but drama created by a larger plot. Does that make sense?

Well said, Kirsten. I think the problem a lot of us have with the idea of RST is that it's destroyed a lot of tv shows we've watched. You look at them, you want them together, and then when they get together you lose interest because it's so in your face.

I think things can be done subtly with Shep and Weir. Sure, there'd be cases where it would become more obvious, eg, when one of them is in a dangerous situation, but I think both these characters would be the type who'd be very low key about things with the others in Atlantis.

Joe and Torri can definitely do subtle and keep it interesting. They've been doing it all along. This sort of storyline would just give them something else to play with!

[Erised]

alyssa.. I agree with you. I'd prefer to have NO ship than to have a ship destroy this fabulous show, which can still be awesome even after all the season two crap [kirking, no character development, etc..]
but we know TPTB will NEVER focus on a ship like that....
yet...they better not make is a S/J duplicate *sigh*

[xkawaiix]

Hehe... EVERY TIME I watch 'Grey's Anatomy' and someone says: "Doctor Sheppard" *insert smiley ROFL his/her @$$ off* *runs off to read fan fic*

LOL!!! That and Lost with Doctor "Jack" Shep.

[Southern Red]

Great discussion about UST/RST. It looks like we are in total agreement here. Now if only TPTB paid attention. They don't have to totally resolve the ship right away, but they do need to stop giving with one hand and taking away with the other. TLG was a prime example. We now have both shipper groups squeeing about this one episode, and let me tell you it's like somehow two different versions of the thing were beamed into our homes. Proving once again that sometimes ship is in the eye of the beholder. That's the writers messing with us, and frankly it's starting to annoy. At some point in the X-Files years I lost interest in that ship and ceased to care. I'm not at that point yet with SGA, but I think season 3 will be the turning point. Let's think about UST with both ships. What will change if Shep and Teyla get together? I know being objective is hard, but let's try to look at it not from a realistic standpoint but from the twisted and confused minds of the writers. I can see them writing that couple as having a tender and caring relationship that even after they get together will change nothing about the team. Let's face it. They are not going to break up the #1 team. They'll do the brother/sister thing with Ronon, throw in a little romance with J/T and leave it there. Now, I know what you're thinking. So am I. They'll have to show them actually having a conversation. They'll do that. It will take up a few seconds of screen time, and then they'll move on. The awkward male version of RST. Now, what will have to change if Shep and Weir get together? I say nothing. Nada, nil, zilch. They already have what I consider tender moments. Private time when he seeks her out, sits on her desk and tries to make her feel better. Sounds like a relationship to me. It would be a natural progression to add a little romance. Some hand touching, a hand on a shoulder, a touch to the face, a little hug, a tiny kiss on the forehead, and finally in season 4 or 5 we could have RST. A verbal declaration followed by a real kiss. Throw in some angst about protocol, a good rousing knock down drag out blood-pumping argument about why they can't be together followed by the mutual realization that they have to or die, and then we've got a story. But in no way does it have to interfere with plot, action or character development. See that's the major point of confusion between shippers and non/anti-shippers. They think we want the show to be about ship. We don't. Even we admit we'll lose interest in that. Okay, now we've got them together. What happens next? It's like some of you said before. Little things. All of us know husband/wife duos who run businesses or work together some way. They manage to get through the day without jumping each other on top of a desk. I think John and Elizabeth could do that. In fact, I think being a bonded couple would make them stronger leaders. Sorry for the long rant. Ya'll just made so many good points, I had to try to sum it all up and hope somebody, anybody is listening.

Oh, and Congratulations to all those whose country won a medal.

[Vicky]

alyssa.. I agree with you. I'd prefer to have NO ship than to have a ship destroy this fabulous show, which can still be awesome even after all the season two crap [kirking, no character development, etc..]
but we know TPTB will NEVER focus on a ship like that....
yet...they better not make is a S/J duplicate *sigh*

I agree with alyssa too and with most of you. Their relationship should definitely stay in the background. They could some 'moments' between them, a kiss from time to time, something that will let us know that they're together but other than that they have to keep focusing on the action.

Lovely vid, Vicky. I almost jumped out of my seat at a certain point. Excellent work.

Thanks!

[Melyanna]

You know, Southern Red, in reading your post, it really struck me all over again how different Shep/Weir is from Shep/Teyla. Resolving Shep/Weir really wouldn't change much in the dynamic of the show. They're already extremely close. They already have lots of scenes together. They already have scenes of a more personal nature.

To go with Shep/Teyla, they'd have to really change the make-up of the show. They'd have to give Sheppard and Teyla scenes together, and scenes where they actually address each other. They'd have to cut back on how obviously Sheppard and Weir rely on each other. They'd have to cut back on scenes with Teyla and Ronon. They'd have to make drastic changes. That kind of resolution would be boring, because the show would have to bend to the will of the ship.

I don't believe that's the case with Shep/Weir. They – and their relationship – get the spotlight a lot already. Contrast that with the minute and a half that Sheppard and Teyla have spent talking to each other this season.

[smallgirl]

Word to Southern Red and Mely!

I was only thinking a similar thing about Sheyla and Sheppard/Weir the other day. I accidently stumbled into a Sheyla lj the other day which was reviewing THE TOWER and came away wondering if there was another episode out there that people were watching which featured heavy Sheppard/Teyla interaction because I completely missed it. Every now and again TPTB mention in some context the UST between Sheppard and Teyla and I wonder if I am sleeping through the show and missing major portions of it because where is this UST they speak of? If they do decide to go the Sheyla route ( and I am very doubtful that they are going to in any direction shipwise) then will they please start writing some scenes where the two actually communicate with one another, will we finally see Teyla get Sheppard rather than Beckett to fly her to the mainland, will they please have a scene alone together which doesn't involve them hitting each other with sticks and when Teyla is amused at something McKay does, will she please smirk at Sheppard rather than Ronon for a change.

Many non Sheppard/Weir shippers (Sheyla's included) say they only see close friendship between Sheppard and Weir and I quite agree, canonically speaking that's all there is but at least we've got that. On a slightly snarky note in TLG

Spoiler:

Teyla didn't believe Halan when he said John cared about her more than she knew

I don't blame her for being cynical cos there isn't much evidence for her to go on that he does.

To be fair I don't doubt Sheppard cares a lot about Teyla and her wellbeing but he certainly doesn't show it and you'd think if there was all this supposed UST under the surface that TPTB would hint at it now and again so we'd get an inkling.

[Southern Red]

Word to Southern Red and Mely!

I was only thinking a similar thing about Sheyla and Sheppard/Weir the other day. I accidently stumbled into a Sheyla lj the other day which was reviewing THE TOWER and came away wondering if there was another episode out there that people were watching which featured heavy Sheppard/Teyla interaction because I completely missed it. Every now and again TPTB mention in some context the UST between Sheppard and Teyla and I wonder if I am sleeping through the show and missing major portions of it because where is this UST they speak of? If they do decide to go the Sheyla route ( and I am very doubtful that they are going to in any direction shipwise) then will they please start writing some scenes where the two actually communicate with one another, will we finally see Teyla get Sheppard rather than Beckett to fly her to the mainland, will they please have a scene alone together which doesn't involve them hitting each other with sticks and when Teyla is amused at something McKay does, will she please smirk at Sheppard rather than Ronon for a change.

Many non Sheppard/Weir shippers (Sheyla's included) say they only see close friendship between Sheppard and Weir and I quite agree, canonically speaking that's all there is but at least we've got that. On a slightly snarky note in TLG

Spoiler:

Teyla didn't believe Halan when he said John cared about her more than she knew

I don't blame her for being cynical cos there isn't much evidence for her to go on that he does.

To be fair I don't doubt Sheppard cares a lot about Teyla and her wellbeing but he certainly doesn't show it and you'd think if there was all this supposed UST under the surface that TPTB would hint at it now and again so we'd get an inkling.

I reeeaaallly don't want to get started on trying to understand Sheyla. However. Here's what I think, at least today. If TPTB are going with S/T, then I want to be able to accept it. But like you guys said it's just not there. I have tried. Really tried. I've run scenes in slo mo, I've looped areas over and over, but there are just never any lusty looks, even affectionate looks between them. Take the jumper scene in TLG for instance

Spoiler:

Shep and Rodney are telling them about TV. Teyla and John exchange an amused look that lasts about 2 seconds. Then later she and Ronon just give each other lingering looks. Teyla smiles that lovely crooked smile of hers and ducks her head. Now I don't know about you people, but when I used to flirt back in the day, that little move was in my arsenal of "come hithers". And it usually worked. still does on Mr.Red As for Rodney's reaction to the "he cares" moment. That to me is a matter of interpretation. They say he reacts like he knows it's true. I thought he showed surprise and disbelief, and so did my husband. If he does believe it, then why did he give that delighted little chuckle when they kissed. And I don't see how anybody could interpret that one differently.

We see what we want to see sometimes, but my theory and I'm sticking to it is that almost everybody at this point including those who want S/T see the moments between John and Elizabeth. Some people just insist it's only friendship, and that's ok. I'm getting a headache trying to understand both Sheyla and TPTB, so I'm going back to *la la la*.

[SGLAB]

Spoiler:

As for Rodney's reaction to the "he cares" moment. That to me is a matter of interpretation. They say he reacts like he knows it's true. I thought he showed surprise and disbelief, and so did my husband. If he does believe it, then why did he give that delighted little chuckle when they kissed. And I don't see how anybody could interpret that one differently.

We see what we want to see sometimes, but my theory and I'm sticking to it is that almost everybody at this point including those who want S/T see the moments between John and Elizabeth. Some people just insist it's only friendship, and that's ok. I'm getting a headache trying to understand both Sheyla and TPTB, so I'm going back to *la la la*.

There's also the theory that Mckay was

Spoiler:

shocked and jealous because he wants Shep for himself.

[Vicky]

You know, Southern Red, in reading your post, it really struck me all over again how different Shep/Weir is from Shep/Teyla. Resolving Shep/Weir really wouldn't change much in the dynamic of the show. They're already extremely close. They already have lots of scenes together. They already have scenes of a more personal nature.

To go with Shep/Teyla, they'd have to really change the make-up of the show. They'd have to give Sheppard and Teyla scenes together, and scenes where they actually address each other. They'd have to cut back on how obviously Sheppard and Weir rely on each other. They'd have to cut back on scenes with Teyla and Ronon. They'd have to make drastic changes. That kind of resolution would be boring, because the show would have to bend to the will of the ship.

I don't believe that's the case with Shep/Weir. They*– and their relationship – get the spotlight a lot already. Contrast that with the minute and a half that Sheppard and Teyla have spent talking to each other this season.

I agree!

They can't change the whole show dynamic just to 'impose' a ship. And they won't if they listen to the audience.

[AngelQueen]

I will admit that back in the early episodes of Season 1, I thought Sheyla was going to be the major ship of the show, the one that was going to drive everyone mad, much as S/J did in SG-1 (still does... Oy...). We saw their first meeting in Rising, and then there was his rigorous defense of her and the Athosians in Suspicion.

But as time passed and we saw John hanging out more and more with Elizabeth, I was eventually converted to Teh Pretty that is Sparky. When I saw his reaction to Koyla's declaration to kill Elizabeth in The Storm, I can remember thinking, "Oh boy, Koyla is so dead if he does this. John will have his head on a silver platter." I think that was the real beginning of my love for Sparky. It was only added to by the moments that followed in episodes like The Eye, Before I Sleep, and The Siege, Part 2, just to name a few.

With this in mind, I looked back at the whole Sheyla thing and I figured, eh, they're more like good friends anyway. John's got a thing for sticking up for someone he perceives as the underdog, probably since he himself knows what it feels like to be in that position. And when Ronon came along, Teyla and him started having so much time together that I pretty much wrote Sheyla off to the friendship area of the show.

Relationships can be done right in sci-fi shows. The whole Tom/B'Elanna relationship on Star Trek Voyager, for instance. We saw their relationship develop over the course of seven years and never once was it in a position to really over-influence the show. And given just how screwed up Voyager became, IMHO, this is one of the good things about that show that I totally cling to in regards to it.

I'm really hoping with the rest of you that TPTB will remember relationships like Tom and B'Elanna's and follow the example. Because as much as I love S/J (always have, always will), I really don't think my nerves could handle another relationship like that. *twitches* My nerves are permanently shot from it.

AQ

[SGLAB]

Word to Southern Red and Mely!

I was only thinking a similar thing about Sheyla and Sheppard/Weir the other day. I accidently stumbled into a Sheyla lj the other day which was reviewing THE TOWER and came away wondering if there was another episode out there that people were watching which featured heavy Sheppard/Teyla interaction because I completely missed it. Every now and again TPTB mention in some context the UST between Sheppard and Teyla and I wonder if I am sleeping through the show and missing major portions of it because where is this UST they speak of? If they do decide to go the Sheyla route ( and I am very doubtful that they are going to in any direction shipwise) then will they please start writing some scenes where the two actually communicate with one another, will we finally see Teyla get Sheppard rather than Beckett to fly her to the mainland, will they please have a scene alone together which doesn't involve them hitting each other with sticks and when Teyla is amused at something McKay does, will she please smirk at Sheppard rather than Ronon for a change.

Many non Sheppard/Weir shippers (Sheyla's included) say they only see close friendship between Sheppard and Weir and I quite agree, canonically speaking that's all there is but at least we've got that.

ITA. And I would actually like to see Shep and Teyla have some of the friendship I see between Shep and Weir. I like to enjoy the interactions between all characters whatever the relationship may be.

And like you said to have Shep/Teyla ship they'd have to cut down on the Teyla/Mckay, Teyla/Beckett and Teyla/Ronon. Not that I necessarily see ship with her and all these guys, but I've enjoyed her interactions with all three of these guys far more than any with her and Shep this season.