Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Pellmelody]

that is a good point... i think that he already knows where she is... they know each other very well!!!!!!!!!

But I can't help but have cute little scene in my head of John walking through the gate and asking the first person near him, "Where's Dr. Weir?"

I wonder...can you see into her office from the gate?

[Melyanna]

But I can't help but have cute little scene in my head of John walking through the gate and asking the first person near him, "Where's Dr. Weir?"

I wonder...can you see into her office from the gate?

I seem to remember that at the end of Trinity, Ronon and Teyla came into the gate room and saw Elizabeth chewing Rodney out in her office.

And of course, John asking where Elizabeth is as soon as he gets back would be purely professional. Sometimes I get the impression, though, that it's not uncommon for her to meet them when they come back.

[SallyLizzie]

Athena's updated Snowbound. You can read it at ffn or LJ (chapter 1, chapter 2, chapter 3.)

[gwenhwyfar]

Athena's updated Snowbound. You can read it at ffn or LJ (chapter 1, chapter 2, chapter 3.)

How!! I STILL can't upload any documents!!! And I have sent in two notices!!!
Oh well...

The power didn't go out... And I was so hoping it would until Monday...

[Pellmelody]

I seem to remember that at the end of Trinity, Ronon and Teyla came into the gate room and saw Elizabeth chewing Rodney out in her office.

Right! Duh. I remember that distinctly now because I kind of felt bad for Rodney in a "OMG, I've been in his position" way. So John could immediately look up into her office and see if she was there. If not, and I suspect it's now a habit of Elizabeth's to do so ever since "Before I Sleep," he'll find her on the balcony.

And of course, John asking where Elizabeth is as soon as he gets back would be purely professional.

Riiiiight.

Sometimes I get the impression, though, that it's not uncommon for her to meet them when they come back.

I think you're correct. It's probably matter of routine, now, for him to immediately go to her and give her a quick "this is what went down" review before the larger de-briefing. Still, she's probably notified of the team's return, and if she's already on the balcony, it seems she waits for him. She could have easily gone back inside to meet the team's return the times we see her on the balcony.

[La'rosh]

My thoughts of The Tower:

Spoiler:

Overall, I didn't think this episode was that bad. I didn't enjoy watching more of Sheppard and babe of the week, but it didn't ruin it for me. And just as a warning, alot of the time things I say will conflict with themselves, but hopefully it'll make since in the end.

On the one hand, I am definately getting increasingly tired of Sheppard's kirking. First Epiphany, then this one with only one episode between them. It's ok once in a while, but this is too much. Also, I do agree that Mara looked 16, and frankly, she acted it too. And her voice didn't help either. That said, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. The entire society inside that "Atlantis copy" was just as silly, and all I could really do was laugh at the absurdity of it. Also, considering, they could have made the "romance" (I'm sure there's a better word, but I'm not taking time to think of it) plot much more long and drawn out than they did. That, and, rather than her going after John just because he was the cute new guy, she did have a reason, however misguided. Lastly, she pretty much threw herself at him and, though I will never know how mens' minds work (and I'm not sure I want to know), the fact that he gave in didn't bother me too much. I also didn't really see him as being overly eager beforehand, as much as surprised. Yes, if it were a perfect world, he would have outright refused her, but it isn't.

And now I'm going to go back on myself a little and say that the whole thing was acceptable, but unnecessary.

I enjoyed the last scene, and it along with the rest of the storyline mostly made up for the kirking. My brain is still debating with itself (who's right? me or me...wow, I really am like Rodney ) over whether their conversation could be construed as shippy or not. On the one hand, why would he tell Elizabeth that he turned her down unless he cared what she thought of him. But, he might say that to any woman to try and impress them. But why would he be trying to impress her. Considering his personality, he might just automatically say something like that. Or not. Or yes. Or no. You get the picture. All in all, I thought their friendly banter was enjoyable and, again, made me smile.

There's a whole lot of things I'd like to say about overused plot devices, but this really isn't the thread for it and I'll try to keep it short. We discussed in here a little while back about whether or not Sparky, or any ship, was cliche, and I think the same thing applies here. There are so many stories in scifi that I doubt there's very much left that hasn't been done before. Yes, maybe there have been story concepts in Star Trek or any other science fiction that are even almost identical, but just the fact that it's on Stargate:Atlantis makes it different. Even if the general idea is the same, different setting, characters, and writer's make things different. I've found that when I read fanfics, two story concepts may be very similar, but the writing style makes the experience of reading them so different that sometimes you don't even really notice that you recognize the plot.

I'm going to stop there because this is still the Sparky thread.

I apologize for all the white space. I just wish I could channel some of that enthusiasm into writing essays for Civics.

I can't wait till The Long Goodbye. And I can feel another rant coming on...can't...stop...

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm just trying to read too much into this, but I think even if the kiss is alien-induced, if anything it's more of an acknowledgment by TPTB that the two do have chemistry. If it weren't true, they wouldn't have done it. It would feel forced. And how many times has something like this happened that's kindof a precursor to later developments?

I love the promo. I can't stop grinning. If nothing else, getting to watch Lizzie go around with a P90 and try to kick John's butt gives me a happy evil grin.

Why can't weeks only include fridays? And maybe the rest of the chaos could flash by in a dream while I'm sleeping.

I should take some sort of class on conciseness. Or maybe just how not to talk too much.

[Pellmelody]

...Regarding TLC...

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm just trying to read too much into this, but I think even if the kiss is alien-induced, if anything it's more of an acknowledgment by TPTB that the two do have chemistry. If it weren't true, they wouldn't have done it. It would feel forced. And how many times has something like this happened that's kindof a precursor to later developments?

You make a good points here about TLC.

Spoiler:

And we also can't forget that, while Weir may not have been agreement to be "taken over" by Phoebus, John agreed to do it, knowing full well what could happen to him and Weir when told that this would be the "married couple's" last chance to say goodbye. They were all well aware, in the discussion, of what could happen. Beckett even said, after John was "taken over" by Thalan, that they are "consenting adults." Given John's disgust not only with the Wraith, but also the Gou'ald (similar to that of O'Neill's), he could have easily said no.

And you're right...while I can't recall specific episodes from other sci-fi shows from the top of my head right now (call it hunger ), I've seen this kind of thing as a precursor to future "interaction."

If you weren't a S/W shipper, you wouldn't be reading more into it or even caring to.

[Erised]

I apologize for all the white space. I just wish I could channel some of that enthusiasm into writing essays for Civics.

I can't wait till The Long Goodbye. And I can feel another rant coming on...can't...stop...

Spoiler:

Maybe I'm just trying to read too much into this, but I think even if the kiss is alien-induced, if anything it's more of an acknowledgment by TPTB that the two do have chemistry. If it weren't true, they wouldn't have done it. It would feel forced.

Spoiler:

I hate going all anti-sheyla again, but I totally agree about the kiss being totally sweet! People who don't ship at all rolled their eyes at conversion kiss.... but said it was sweet when they saw a TLG one. YOu know.. also the way the camera goes around John and Liz makes the kiss extra awesome!

And how many times has something like this happened that's kindof a precursor to later developments?

OMG! You are soo right! Now let's expect a TLG follow-up in season 3!! Wohoo I'm so excited!

Spoiler:

I love the promo. I can't stop grinning. If nothing else, getting to watch Lizzie go around with a P90 and try to kick John's butt gives me a happy evil grin.

I know that promo is sooo sweet! I saw it yesterday and I totally squeed, even though I've seen that scene for.... man I've lost count!

Why can't weeks only include fridays? And maybe the rest of the chaos could flash by in a dream while I'm sleeping.

Wheeeee! That'd be awesome!
stupid fact: if every day was friday, and I mean.....real friday, we would have ~24 days until season 3!! heheee

[Chrysalis]

Too true. I remember how Gillian Anderson's birth year was incorrect on there for years, despite the fact that many, many X-Files fans kept sending in corrections. It took them at least 2-3 years to change it!

There's a good reason for the Gillian Anderson age problem. She lied about her age when she started on the show. They wanted a 30 year old doctor, and she was 23 or 24 at the time, so she was always written up as older than she was. She made herself older by about 4 or 5 years or something when she went for the job....

[FoolishPleasure]

John: Did you know that originally your name was to be Dr. Wright?

Liz: Then what would you have said if Dr. Wright was. . .wrong?

[Melyanna]

You make a good points here about TLC.

Spoiler:

And we also can't forget that, while Weir may not have been agreement to be "taken over" by Phoebus, John agreed to do it, knowing full well what could happen to him and Weir when told that this would be the "married couple's" last chance to say goodbye. They were all well aware, in the discussion, of what could happen. Beckett even said, after John was "taken over" by Thalan, that they are "consenting adults." Given John's disgust not only with the Wraith, but also the Gou'ald (similar to that of O'Neill's), he could have easily said no.

Spoiler:

You know, that's what I find the most positive ship-wise about this episode. Everyone in the room acknowledges that anything could happen, and they're clearly talking about something happening between a husband and wife. Yet John still goes through with it. He could have easily ordered one of his subordinates to do it, but no, he did it himself when "Elizabeth" asked him to with a cute smile. Sure, he was nervous –*who wouldn't be, at the prospect of taking another personality into one's body? – but he still does it, believing that he and Elizabeth are going to be acting out a last goodbye for a married couple.

...Yeah. Hopeless romantic.

[xfkirsten]

There's a good reason for the Gillian Anderson age problem. She lied about her age when she started on the show. They wanted a 30 year old doctor, and she was 23 or 24 at the time, so she was always written up as older than she was. She made herself older by about 4 or 5 years or something when she went for the job....

Yeah, but even after all of that was made public knowledge, IMDB still wouldn't change it. *headdesk*

[Whistler84]

Rodney: No, Elizabeth. I'm telling you, when I was passing by a closet yesterday, I distinctly heard Sheppard calling out the name of Teresa in . . . um, excitement. Do you know who this Teresa is?"
Weir: I have no idea what you're talking about!

[Luz]

Spoiler:

I hate going all anti-sheyla again, but I totally agree about the kiss being totally sweet! People who don't ship at all rolled their eyes at conversion kiss.... but said it was sweet when they saw a TLG one. YOu know.. also the way the camera goes around John and Liz makes the kiss extra awesome!

OMG! You are soo right! Now let's expect a TLG follow-up in season 3!! Wohoo I'm so excited!

Spoiler:

You're not being anti-anything, you're just calling it like it is. While the kiss in conversion looked more like a mouth rape than anything remotely romantic. Maybe because of the setting, Sheppard's attack on Teyla was like EWWWW!, and her reaction was less than forthcoming, bordering on "i *SO* wanna puke right now", lol. But the kiss from TLG looked consensual, in some twisted sort of way.
I mean, yeah, they weren't eachother, but Sheppard did consent to being taken over, fully knowing what could happen (or what he thought could happen, since he was under the impression that they were married).
And when they were kissing the alien dude was totally leaning into it, so the image that stuck (on my mind at least) was a pleasant one. They looked great kissing, even if it wasn't them for real, still the kiss looked good. And i think more important than the kiss are the reactions from Col. Skinner, McKay, and Beckett. Col. Skinner looked a bit embarrassed, but with this little smirk. Beckett looked like he'd been waiting for that to happen (you little sparky, you ), and McKay didn't drop dead at the sight of Weir and Sheppard kissing, actually he kind of had this face like he'd just realised something.
Plus, IMO it was *very* significant that they (tptb) chose Sheppard and Weir to play a "married" couple. They could've chosen anyother two people, if they'd chosen Teyla instead of Weir, i admit it, i would have felt like the Sparky had been sunk. And it takes a lot for me to lose hope. But seeing a "married" episode with Teyla and Sheppard would have meant at least for me that all hope for Sparky being cannon would've been lost.
Instead we have the "married" episode with Sheppard and Weir, so this to me means not the beginning of development for our ('cause that's been going on for a while now), but the implied promise of more things to follow for Sparky. Any Sheyla moments are not because the ship has any real hope of becoming cannon, more like a plot device to try to torture us the Sparkies. I'm not trying to be mean to the other shippers, but that's how i take all the "now, will try to shove this down your throats" *FORCED* Shep/Teyla moments. Not like real hope for that ship, more like tptb's attempt to try to play with *us*. That's why it's so easy for me to shrug it off .

[Chrysalis]

Yeah, but even after all of that was made public knowledge, IMDB still wouldn't change it. *headdesk*

That's because they pride themselves in being wrong, Kirsten!!