Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Dorka]

I'm just talking to Kat...who has the whole script...she'll write me out some scenes...do you want me to write them down here??? I'm not sure If it's even allowed :-/

[Erised]

I'm just talking to Kat...who has the whole script...she'll write me out some scenes...do you want me to write them down here??? I'm not sure If it's even allowed :-/

yes! Where did she get the script anyway?

[The wicked Witch]

I think technically while she is over the entire expedition and makes the big decisions regarding the homebase of Atlantis that John is his own 'boss' over the military. Yes, he has to ask her permission to make decisions regarding anything to do with his unit's interaction with the city but she would just the same have to defer to him on military decisions. I think he even could go over her head on matters but the fact that he usually doesn't and tries to come to a joint decision with her shows how much respect and trust he has in her and believes she has in him. I see them as rather a 'joint command' with her having the domain of the city and him having the domain over military strategies and off-world decisions.

I do agree with that...
Juste making a joke...
I know that their positions are different and it's not a matter of hierarchy...
And I love the way they work together.

[Dorka]

yes! Where did she get the script anyway?

Bought on the auction at the con in Germany... David Hewlett was massaging her while she bid *is jelous*

She's the one where we know the famous sentece

[Bama]

I know that everyone is probably sick of talking about TLG, but I was reading the spoilers posted on pegasus galaxy, and something came up (TLG spoilers)

Spoiler:

apparently there's a point where the two are about to kill each other when thalan/ John says "He cares for you more than you know. If you kill me, you're killing him." This (i think) is thalan talking about John which is *huge*.As far as I'm concerned this is so much more important than a mind-controlled kiss, as it shows that John + Liz, not Phoebus + Thalan, have feelings for each other. That is a clear sign that this ship is becoming canon, in contrast to the kiss which is easily dismissed as a mind-control thing which doesn't really count.

(although I have no idea why i'm spoiler-shielding this, everyone on the thread knows what happens!)

Hey MM. I just posted the same on the sci-fi board. This is hugely important for S/W for a couple of reasons.

Spoiler:

The noromo contingent want to say, 'oh, ha, just another AU kiss that means nothing.' OMG, that is *so* whistling past the graveyard! SURE this means something. Just because they didn't choose to do it doesn't lessen the importance of it for the two of them! Here's why TLG is so dadgum important for the s/w ship based on what we think to be true spoilers. First, let's establish-that unlike the conversion attack, this is a real and passionate kiss between, at the least, the *bodies* of Shep and Weir. Their minds are aware as well if not 'in control' of their bodily actions. Therefore, it forces John and Elizabeth to see and feel and experience a taste of passion between them and understand what it potentially could be like between them. That's big because naturally neither would take such a step toward passion with the other on their own just yet. This is like a free trial run with no strings attached - what's to dislike for them or us about that? It's bloody brilliant of tptb if you ask me. Now, the second thing is the much more important one you allude to. This episode gives us a chance to get the one thing we need to hear/know from one reluctant and good at hiding his true feelings air force colonel. We get to know that he has very deep, emotional feelings for Elizabeth. We've all suspected he does and he doesn't know quite what to do with them or make of them yet. It appears that this episode could give him an idea of the totality of potentials between he and Elizabeth. This 'event' opens a 'huge' window for them to peek thru at this still early stage. It can lead to later thought and reflection. It can make a later potential romantic-type moment easier for the two of them to understand and step into. And, it introduces the idea of physical romance between them to the general and broader audience and makes it more of a concrete possibility and not so much something shippers just "imagine".

There is no way this ep is anything but forward progression of a sort for S/W.

[mentalmichael]

Hey MM. I just posted the same on the sci-fi board. This is hugely important for S/W for a couple of reasons.

Spoiler:

The noromo contingent want to say, 'oh, ha, just another AU kiss that means nothing.' OMG, that is *so* whistling past the graveyard! SURE this means something. Just because they didn't choose to do it doesn't lessen the importance of it for the two of them! Here's why TLG is so dadgum important for the s/w ship based on what we think to be true spoilers. First, let's establish-that unlike the conversion attack, this is a real and passionate kiss between, at the least, the *bodies* of Shep and Weir. Their minds are aware as well if not 'in control' of their bodily actions. Therefore, it forces John and Elizabeth to see and feel and experience a taste of passion between them and understand what it potentially could be like between them. That's big because naturally neither would take such a step toward passion with the other on their own just yet. This is like a free trial run with no strings attached - what's to dislike for them or us about that? It's bloody brilliant of tptb if you ask me. Now, the second thing is the much more important one you allude to. This episode gives us a chance to get the one thing we need to hear/know from one reluctant and good at hiding his true feelings air force colonel. We get to know that he has very deep, emotional feelings for Elizabeth. We've all suspected he does and he doesn't know quite what to do with them or make of them yet. It appears that this episode could give him an idea of the totality of potentials between he and Elizabeth. This 'event' opens a 'huge' window for them to peek thru at this still early stage. It can lead to later thought and reflection. It can make a later potential romantic-type moment easier for the two of them to understand and step into. And, it introduces the idea of physical romance between them to the general and broader audience and makes it more of a concrete possibility and not so much something shippers just "imagine".

There is no way this ep is anything but forward progression of a sort for S/W.

Great minds think alike!

[Erised]

Bama, that's just brilliant!
Dorka, really? *faints*

I just got my Atlantis DVDs in the mail. woot!*faints again*

[Finnstardust]

I think technically while she is over the entire expedition and makes the big decisions regarding the homebase of Atlantis that John is his own 'boss' over the military. Yes, he has to ask her permission to make decisions regarding anything to do with his unit's interaction with the city but she would just the same have to defer to him on military decisions. I think he even could go over her head on matters but the fact that he usually doesn't and tries to come to a joint decision with her shows how much respect and trust he has in her and believes she has in him. I see them as rather a 'joint command' with her having the domain of the city and him having the domain over military strategies and off-world decisions.

Yeah, that is one of the reasons I love this show so much. John and Liz are happy to share the "burden of leadership" and consult each other when needed, without having to fight for dominance over the city. Should Caldwell have been given the role of the military leader, I suspect he would have done everything in his power to push Elizabeth from her position as a leader. This is not an issue with John and it makes the dynamic between them absolutely amazing.

[Bama]

Great minds think alike!

Yes, indeed they do.

Spoiler:

Several on here have talked about this but I think this episode, while perhaps leading Elizabeth to her 'darker place' of personal uncertainties because of what she is forced to do with violence etc. may actually be an even more important episode for John in regard to his S/W feelings. You as a man, may like to comment on this. The way I see it, John is having some trouble understanding the nature of his feelings in regard to Elizabeth. The stupified look on his face as she hugged him. The confusion in his eyes in conversion...
She's outside his box of what's 'familiar' and of what 'should be'. The deeper feelings he has for her seem to be something he's not used to grappling with and understanding. With women, his usual answer seems to be-see the woman-flirt with the woman-sex the woman. He doesn't seem to go out of his way to be 'buds' with women or have conversation with women. Except Elizabeth. And she's the boss of the expedition. She's become his best friend and most trusted confidant and most important person to him. And yet, he's not dared make a move on her in any sexual way. The closest he's gotten is a bit of light flirting. The events that transpire in TLG could open his eyes for the first time to the idea that he could combine his deeper feelings of friendship with a woman with what's between his legs. I don't mean to be intentionally crude but that's the best way I know to express it. I think the two have always been mutually seperate for him and TLG may be the moment that jumpstarts his 'new' thinking process and makes him, at somepoint go, 'Wow, it could be everything between us?'

Or he may find his 'taste' and the 'idea' totally revolting and think she's just too old and mature for him given that she's over 25 and doesn't have daddy to help her make decisions. He may find that it's like kissing his sister or his mother or Rodney.

[Dorka]

Bama, that's just brilliant!
Dorka, really? *faints*

I just got my Atlantis DVDs in the mail. woot!*faints again*

*g* fainting Erides *lol*

O.K here a little pre-Information...I'll write some dialogue later

TLG -SPOILERS

Spoiler:

John tells Teyla and Ronon about television at the beginning of the episode, and they can't belive that it's not a waste of time (-> no it's not ot where else could we watch SGA )

After the kiss John and Elizabeth just run out in different directions to arm themselves and then they talk most of the time through the radio

[mentalmichael]

Yes, indeed they do.

Spoiler:

Several on here have talked about this but I think this episode, while perhaps leading Elizabeth to her 'darker place' of personal uncertainties because of what she is forced to do with violence etc. may actually be an even more important episode for John in regard to his S/W feelings. You as a man, may like to comment on this. The way I see it, John is having some trouble understanding the nature of his feelings in regard to Elizabeth. The stupified look on his face as she hugged him. The confusion in his eyes in conversion...
She's outside his box of what's 'familiar' and of what 'should be'. The deeper feelings he has for her seem to be something he's not used to grappling with and understanding. With women, his usual answer seems to be-see the woman-flirt with the woman-sex the woman. He doesn't seem to go out of his way to be 'buds' with women or have conversation with women. Except Elizabeth. And she's the boss of the expedition. She's become his best friend and most trusted confidant and most important person to him. And yet, he's not dared make a move on her in any sexual way. The closest he's gotten is a bit of light flirting. The events that transpire in TLG could open his eyes for the first time to the idea that he could combine his deeper feelings of friendship with a woman with what's between his legs. I don't mean to be intentionally crude but that's the best way I know to express it. I think the two have always been mutually seperate for him and TLG may be the moment that jumpstarts his 'new' thinking process and makes him, at somepoint go, 'Wow, it could be everything between us?'

Or he may find his 'taste' and the 'idea' totally revolting and think she's just too old and mature for him given that she's over 25 and doesn't have daddy to help her make decisions. He may find that it's like kissing his sister or his mother or Rodney.

You're right, what the hell were we thinking, we should all abandon the ship!

Seriously though, there seems to be no doubt at all (in my mind) that Sheppard is not used to even being friends with a person like Elizabeth, and would be scared to do anything to screw it up. Speaking as someone who has had feelings for a really good (female!) friend, and been scared to do anything, I can quite easily sympathise - The fear of losing the friendship which as you say is very important for him, could override his other emotions. Considering his character, he might even be scared of the relationship that could (and should) happen between the two, as I don't see him as having had many serious relationships.
Like you say, hopefully TLG will shake things up a little, but it really wouldn't suprise me if Liz ends up being the one to finally make a move - John may be a brave soldier and everything, but I don't think that he will do anything.

[The wicked Witch]

Bama, you just make all this sound so clear, I love the way you analyse things...
100% agree with that...

Dorka : Thanks for the spoilers... Can't wait, gnnnnn !!

[Erised]

*g* fainting Erides *lol*

O.K here a little pre-Information...I'll write some dialogue later

TLG -SPOILERS

Spoiler:

John tells Teyla and Ronon about television at the beginning of the episode, and they can't belive that it's not a waste of time (-> no it's not ot where else could we watch SGA )

After the kiss John and Elizabeth just run out in different directions to arm themselves and then they talk most of the time through the radio

Spoiler:

Sounds really funny so far . I kind of expected them to run in different directions from each other. I mean, we do know that they are going to be chasing each other throughout the episode, and since they don't kill each other after the kiss, they had to separate somehow. I just wonder if it's Pohebus and Halan that run away or if John and Elizabeth have something to do with it as well. It must be a shock for them; first, because they were forced to kiss, and second, the realization that they may actually like each other.
TV, a waste of time? LOL! I shouldn't let my parents hear that one

[The wicked Witch]

John may be a brave soldier and everything, but I don't think that he will do anything.

That's the interesting part... With other girls, he will, but not with Elizabeth...
Kind of an initiation he's going through...

[Bama]

Yeah, that is one of the reasons I love this show so much. John and Liz are happy to share the "burden of leadership" and consult each other when needed, without having to fight for dominance over the city. Should Caldwell have been given the role of the military leader, I suspect he would have done everything in his power to push Elizabeth from her position as a leader. This is not an issue with John and it makes the dynamic between them absolutely amazing.

Absolutely Finn. That's why I say constantly that they're already in essence 'married' to each other. I think TPTB are setting us and them up to see just how true that is. Caldwell is exactly who I was thinking of when I typed that. But you could sub his name with just about any other military leader and the result would be the same. We've already seen in eps as early as 'Rising' and later in 'Conversion' that 'Atlantis' doesn't function properly unless it's John and Elizabeth-together-running the show. Most military leaders would do exactly what Caldwell did in Conversion and think it their right. They wouldn't want to take a civilian on as a trusted 'equal' in any sense. And it turn, the civilian would be forced to work more independently of the military arm of atlantis rather than arm and arm with it. I rather do hope tptb rips the leadership of atlantis to shreds and proves to everyone that it *has to be* John and Elizabeth together in charge for Atlantis to be all it can be. That's what I meant in earlier posts about time and joint successes making the transition to 'all' between the two of them easier. With each passed test, their joint command grows stronger and the two of them together as a pair unit grows more established. One day, they'll look up and see that they don't even have a choice really in any other way but the entire burrito. To do otherwise, means messing up the dynamic. But it also means as shep/weir 'shippers' we'll have to be patient because for them to 'go there', it'll have to be a 'sure' decision on both parts and it won't be something they'll be willing to 'chance' or 'play with'. Atlantis *is* in a sense, their 'courtship'. There won't be any earth-like dating or trial period to see if it's going to work for them. Sure, there will be windows like TLG and Conversion where we'll see them take some personal steps together but they'll have to use their joint experiences in Atlantis to mutually 'know' it's going to be 'it' forever before they'll ever take that lunge of open acknowledgement of their marriage. I love it because it's like they're working 'backwards'. LOL!