Originally posted by Erised
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Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread
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"But that man who has known the immense unhappiness of losing a friend, by what name do we call him? Here every language is silent and holds its peace in impotence." ~In memory of Whistler84...loved and missed but never, never forgotten. Safe journey, my dear friend. Love you.
HIC COMITAS REGIT How long until Shore Leave 29???
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Originally posted by MelyannaWell, I was a Sam/Jack shipper before I got disillusioned by... a variety of things, and I really don't remember a Sam/Jack situation like that. Personally, I thought it was the only way Elizabeth could answer that comment.
I think the biggest difference between Sam/Jack and Shep/Weir is in the shows. SG-1 is about a team; Atlantis is about a community. If it were a ten-person expedition, yes, it'd be really, really weird for the two senior personnel to get involve with each other. As it stands, it'd probably still strike some people as odd, but Atlantis is a large community, and in many ways a family. A relationship is less inappropriate in that light, since they don't go home at the end of the work day..
Originally posted by MelyannaAs for Elizabeth in Conversion... You know, I will never understand how people think that Elizabeth's worrying streak is something they brought in for Season 2 to weaken her character. One of the most endearing moments of Rising, in my opinion, was her standing in the gate room, while work is being done all around her, just staring at the gate, worried that she'd made the wrong decision about letting John go on the rescue mission. And it's not like she's ever been worried for no particular reason. I have a terrible feeling that if it were a man worried about subordinates, people wouldn't be accusing him of being weak.
...In fact, they never have. His name is George Hammond, and he made some pretty questionable decisions now and then because he wouldn't give up on SG-1..
Originally posted by MelyannaSo how in the world would it weaken Elizabeth if she were in a relationship with John? She already worries about John, and that hasn't prevented her from doing her job before. At the end of The Lost Boys, we saw that she was reporting on the business of the city, things she was doubtless heavily involved in, before reporting that John and the team were still missing. And Hatcheter pointed out in another thread that her saying they were still missing is a pretty good indication that they'd been missing before the previous contact with Earth, a week earlier. They say that the first fifteen minutes in a hostage situation are the most critical. I think Elizabeth conducted herself amazingly well, seeing that her top team was missing for more than seven days.
So what would change if she and John were involved? Not a whole lot. She's already proven that she'll sacrifice him for the good of the whole, and has done so more than once. What more can anyone ask for?
Er... I wouldn't say almost everyone loved S/J. There were probably as many, if not more Jack/Daniel shippers, and probably equally as many noromos and anti-shippers. Fandom-wide, it was probably the least popular of the big options. It was just the most popular het ship.
If every episode were about Shep/Weir, or if characters were massacred for the sake of ship, I'd say it's turning into Soapgate. But as it stands, I don't think we're anywhere close to reaching As the Gate Turns. TPTB understand that very few people in the audience actually want that, so the likelihood of that happening is slim.
As for the "little theme music," that was usually an adagio variation of the SG-1 main theme. They've done the same thing with Atlantis in quite a few of the major Shep/Weir scenes, like the stairwell and the gate room in The Eye, or the control room scene in Siege II, or the gate room scene in Siege III.
ETA: And if you want to talk about a ship turning into Sam/Jack, that'd be Shep/Teyla. Same problems with regulations and everything. In fact, it's pretty clear from Grace Under Pressure that John has jurisdiction over the civilians as well as the Marines and airmen, so the only person he could get involved with and not get in legal trouble is, in fact, Elizabeth.
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As for Elizabeth in Conversion... You know, I will never understand how people think that Elizabeth's worrying streak is something they brought in for Season 2 to weaken her character. One of the most endearing moments of Rising, in my opinion, was her standing in the gate room, while work is being done all around her, just staring at the gate, worried that she'd made the wrong decision about letting John go on the rescue mission. And it's not like she's ever been worried for no particular reason. I have a terrible feeling that if it were a man worried about subordinates, people wouldn't be accusing him of being weak.
As for Rising, I don't know what people are talking about. That early in the show, she would be worrying aobut any team going on a rescue mission. Even if she was attracted to John by then, I doubt the feelings were strong enough. (unless they spent a lot of time on Earth together before leaving, but I don't think so)
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Originally posted by MelyannaI really don't remember a Sam/Jack situation like that.
Personally, I thought it was the only way Elizabeth could answer that comment.
You know, I will never understand how people think that Elizabeth's worrying streak is something they brought in for Season 2 to weaken her character.
I have a terrible feeling that if it were a man worried about subordinates, people wouldn't be accusing him of being weak.
So how in the world would it weaken Elizabeth if she were in a relationship with John?
If every episode were about Shep/Weir, or if characters were massacred for the sake of ship, I'd say it's turning into Soapgate. But as it stands, I don't think we're anywhere close to reaching As the Gate Turns. TPTB understand that very few people in the audience actually want that, so the likelihood of that happening is slim.
As for the "little theme music," that was usually an adagio variation of the SG-1 main theme. They've done the same thing with Atlantis in quite a few of the major Shep/Weir scenes, like the stairwell and the gate room in The Eye, or the control room scene in Siege II, or the gate room scene in Siege III.
Same problems with regulations and everything. In fact, it's pretty clear from Grace Under Pressure that John has jurisdiction over the civilians as well as the Marines and airmen, so the only person he could get involved with and not get in legal trouble is, in fact, Elizabeth.
It all depends on the writers' originality with creating their ships. If the writers decide they liked S/J, I would think they'd copy S/J, with whatever ship they go with, be it S/W or S/T.
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Originally posted by Weir'sRedShirtI don't think it weakens her character; it brings out her compassion for others, especially those she is in charge of. But it seems like there aren't enough "Weir episodes"; ones where her role is not just sitting at Atlantis worrying about Shep and team. What worries me most about S/W is that the worrying about the the team will become worse and force her role to be just the head of the base who sits and is anxious. I would far prefer S/W to never happen then for TPTB to ruin her character. If we had different writers, we wouldn't have a problem, but the writers seem to have problems with writing female characters. They did Sam exceptionally well, but it seems that they're making the male characters on Atlantis out to be the heroes, when they've got two perfectly good, strong, female leads.Spoiler:more was learned about her and culture in critical mass.sigpic
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Originally posted by Weir'sRedShirtIt's less about Weir's character than it is depending on the writers to go a different way from S/J, which was such a long drag.
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It all depends on the writers' originality with creating their ships. If the writers decide they liked S/J, I would think they'd copy S/J, with whatever ship they go with, be it S/W or S/T.~La (I used to be a lurker, but this place just sucks you in...)
The Nameless Forest. Also, my LJ, where you can find my fic attempts.
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To make up for my dud link before i bring you more great fic and smut
Omen (pg13)
Omen, part 2 (nc17)
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Whoops. Sorry, it's on LJ and i forgot it was 'locked'. Maybe she'll put it up elsewere soon
teh awesome fic
part 4 of Desert Rose by Finnstardust is up (Read all the chaps the other day from your LJ memories and i can't wait to read more )
Home Again, chapter 18 I'm seriously loving this WIP
ETA: oh yeah, another WIP i'm into atm is Not Alone It's up to chapter 3
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Originally posted by LurkerLaMy personal feeling is that we don't have too much to worry about in terms of Shep/Weir going the (what many feel was disastrous) route of Sam/Jack. If you look back through this thread some, you'll see discussions that point out how well developed Shep/Weir already is when compared to Sam/Jack, and in less than two seasons. You can really see them becoming friends, and such (sorry, I ran out of steam there at the end - my cat scratched me and my train of thought got derailed ).
But with John/Liz, I noticed something by 38 minutes! That was only, what, third episode? They have definately learned how to develop ships properly
^ yay! Thanks Sally~
now I have something to do
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Originally posted by SallyLizzieHome Again, chapter 18 I'm seriously loving this WIP
ETA: oh yeah, another WIP i'm into atm is Not Alone It's up to chapter 3
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Originally posted by Dr WeirI disagree with you, Weir is a very strong character
I would like to see her more in eps and I feel she does appear most of the time a fair amount, she is a lead character after all and runs the missions.
We've seen plenty of McKay; I think half the series is about him. Not to say that I don't love him, but I really want to see Weir fill out her complete potential as a leader. Yes, she's head of the base, but one of my favorite episodes was "Condemned", where she went off-base and kicked some alien butt. One thing I didn't like about the Simon plotline (which I supposed I liked, because then we learned she's single ) was how S/W seemed pushed on us afterwards. It was very subtle in season 1, where they had a professional trust/relationship that the writers should have built upon. They didn't always agree, but you could tell they had a lot of respect for each other; after the Simon thing, she seems to almost fall apart. Yes, she's stable on the outside, but after Simon there's all the sudden this friendy "we've been through a lot together" bond between the two. Now, is that just because of Simon? My guess is yes; now, I have no problem with Shep and Weir growing close and becoming highly trusted friends with each other, but not if it's pushed on us like that. We need more development of their relationship rather than it just popping up like that.
Before the writers can even think of shipping, I think they need to give us reasons why Shep and Weir are the close friends everyone says they are. We see scenes between Beckett and McKay, Shep and Teyla, and Ford and Shep. I can see S/W coming more out of a close, personal friendship than what a sudden attraction, like the writers seem to be writing now. So... more development of all characters, then ships. I would love for S/W to be the ship, because I really love the characters together so far. But I think the development of their relationship as friendship and on a professional level is more important right now than romance. If they dive right into the ship, there's going to be chunks missing from the characters, since the writers will focus more likely on the relationship and its affects on Atlantis, not the actual characters.
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Originally posted by SallyLizzie....WOW! She did. That was fast *blinks*
teh awesome fic
part 4 of Desert Rose by Finnstardust is up (Read all the chaps the other day from your LJ memories and i can't wait to read more )
Home Again, chapter 18 I'm seriously loving this WIP
ETA: oh yeah, another WIP i'm into atm is Not Alone It's up to chapter 3
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