Elizabeth Weir/John Sheppard Appreciation/Ship/Discussion Thread

[Ebony Wolf]

Hey, I've been a lurker for quite a while and thought I'd say finally come out an say hi. I visit the thread a lot and everyone's posts always put a on my face. What a great group!!

Go Sheppard/Weir

Welcome to the thread.

[Dorka]

Welcome in here. I wanna be honest: I don't think this descussion will lead anywhere bc for me I don't see the Teyla/John ship. It depends on the pov imo. You could ask the Teyla/Ronon or Weir/McKay the same question. But what do you expect them to answer? I hope this wasn't rude or sth cuz it was not my intention.

Jen

I'm absolutely Jen's opinion! This leads us to nothing but maybe conflict. And I think we discussed the cave scene, some times here, but a longer time ago!

[Cpt. Ritter]

I'm not sure if the question you're asking is "What do you think of the cave scene?" or "What do you think is Shep/Weir's first shippy scene?" so I'll answer both.

I think of the cave scene as helping with the plot for Suspicion and John just being nice enough to help her with her necklace.

As for the first shippy scene, I'd have to say the one in 38 minutes where John wanted to tell Elizabeth something important as he layed there dying. Definately caught my attention.

You've got a point when you mention 38 mins, I'll admit that. It caught our eyes and ears too. And Seige III had an interesting moment right at the beginning.

[Bama]

I'm stopping by to ask you guys and girls a question. Honestly, I see the friendship connection between Shep and Weir, but I don't see the ship. In case you don't know, I'm the Royal Shippy Guard of the Shep/Teyla Ship Discussion Thread, so expect my opinions to be biased.

When I think of the obvious ship, my thoughts go first to Shep and Teyla in the Cave scene from Rising. I'm curious as to what you guys and girls think of? (**Raises Shippy Shield against possible counterattack**)

My only request of you Cpt. would be to logically explain what things you base the idea of the Shep/Tey ship on?

And my idea of a deep, lasting ship is two people who are the 'most significant other' in each other's lives. I just can't see Shep rolling over in bed from Teyla and saying, "Honey, the sex was great but now I've got to go talk to the most important person in my life and it ain't you."

[Vixen]

Just to say welcome to all the newbies! Have fun in this thread *one of the best on the net, yup*!

[Jenova Synthesis]

This is what I said is going to happen. Everybody feels pissed off and this is not why we're here. I could be mean, too and tell you why I think Teyla and John don't fit together but I won't cuz I don't want to. I accept all the other ships, too. Why shouldn't I? Can you give me just one reason?

[xkawaiix]

My take on John -and I agree with southern's take on how hard it is for him to express his feelings- is that he's scared to death of how deeply he feels for Elizabeth and has no idea what to do with those feelings. [/spoiler]

ITA!!! I don't think John has ever felt this much for a woman. Imo, I think most of the women he's been with were one night stands or gals of the week and never pictured anything more than that. So for John, this may be something he hasn't experienced in such a long time which makes him unsure of exactly how he feels. Imo, I think Elizabeth is sure that her feelings for John run deeper than friendship. John, I think wouldn't realize how much he cared for her until

Spoiler:

Halan/John says, "He cares for you more than you know. If you kill me, you're killing him." I think that Halan recognises John's feelings for Elizabeth and used it to his advantage, having a feeling that Elizabeth would most likely feel the same.

[Cpt. Ritter]

My only request of you Cat. would be to logically explain what things you base the idea of the Shep/Tey ship on?

And my idea of a deep, lasting ship is two people who are the 'most significant other' in each other's lives. I just can't see Shep rolling over in bed from Teyla and saying, "Honey, the sex was great but now I've got to go talk to the most important person in my life and it ain't you."

I could spend several years typing out everything we've talked about. We base our idea of the Shep/Teyla ship on the dynamic between the two, mainly in the early parts of Season 1, the Cave Scene in Rising is something we always talk about. That scene had some incredibly tenderness to it (in our opinion). Then only a few episodes later, Suspicion. Throughout that episode, he lends his trust of Teyla to everyone. Going so far as the say "Open The Damn Gate" to Bates. Then in the same episode, Bates makes a sinker of a line. "Sir, I believe you're letting your personal feelings get in the way of your judgement." We actually cite paranoid Bates for alot of our reasons. I'll refrain from saying anything about Conversion because I'm sure you all know about it. We talk about a deep bond between Shep and Teyla, but I see how you can see the same thing between Shep and Weir. I supose you could argue this point any way, I'm just giving alittle insight out and hopefully bringing some back to my thread. Maybe I'll stop by from time. Hope I answered some of your question. I have a tendency to not be clear.

[Bama]

Oh, and one more thought Cpt. on those eps you mention.

Men, in my experience, can be sexually attracted to many women. Shep himself has shown some variety already on that front. Teyla is beautiful and kind and unique and interesting. I don't doubt that he was attracted to her on a visceral level and perhaps still is a little. What single, red-blooded heterosexual man wouldn't be? But, the true measure of a man's heart can be determined not by what's in his pants but what's in his heart and mind and soul. John continues to go back again and again and build an emotional connection with one person on Atlantis and I just see little/no evidence that the one person is Teyla.

[Luz]

Forget the flippin

Spoiler:

kiss! Just like in Triangle , the kiss means less than the what we actually learn about the man's feelings-much so! And I'm sorry snog or whoever, but there is no way that halan uses that line..."he cares about you more than you realize" to try and get to Elizabeth unless he's reading one of two things inside john. Either a.) He knows that John knows that Elizabeth wants him to care about her in a special way and he's saying what John's mind tells him that she wants to hear or the most logical and easiest explanation: b.) he knows that John really cares for Elizabeth on a deeper level than he's ever admitted to her himself. There's no way he could know how Elizabeth truly feels about John unless either Phoebus tells him verbally or he reads it in John's mind. It's whistling past the graveyard to try and rationalize that John admittance away as 'nothing' or 'just deep feelings of friendship'. And if it were my ship, I'd worry about one half of it having "more than you know" feelings for anyone else. If the male half of my ship wasn't the best friend and most important significant emotional 'other' to the female half of my ship, I'd be a bit concerned too. You don't build a house a foundation made of pretty paper.

My take on John -and I agree with southern's take on how hard it is for him to express his feelings- is that he's scared to death of how deeply he feels for Elizabeth and has no idea what to do with those feelings. That's where the importance of the kissing memory marker comes in. That kiss is much more important for John imo than Elizabeth. And that's why I'm glad it's her mouth passionately putting it to him. That passion from her he tastes has to be internalized right alongside all those feelings he's sorting thru and trying to keep inside.

Well yeah, that

Spoiler:

idiotic kiss really gets on my nerves, because i'm getting all kinds of flashbacks to all the other idiotic AU, under the influence kisses i've ever had the misfortune to see, the worst would be Death Watch from JAG, man, DJE kisses looked so awful (on-screen i mean), Harm/Mac kisses always looked horrible, like he was trying to physicaly hurt her with his lips, LOL. No wonder i jumped ship

.
But you're right, the thing is i hadn't - as off a few minutes ago - read the other spoilers, i hadn't had the time. But know i have, and what do i find?, the possibility for moments!, moments are what keeps me going, no grand gestures, just little things here and there, and that "more than you know" line sound so promising. I only hope episode is good, i hate it when big things happen and then people go on as normal and don't talk. Which was one of my peeves with Mulder and Scully, they never ever talked about anything that happened between them, but i won't go there.

[Dorka]

@Ritter: I don't really think you can convince anybody here, to become a Teyla/Sheppard-shipper go posting to the thread! I really respect all shippers...but if we start a real discussion now, we are still here in 10 years discussing...
Everyone should be convinced by his ship during the episodes, and not because some people mention shippy moments over and over again, sorry!

[xkawaiix]

I like that you study things and look at them at different angles Cpt. Ritter, I do that as well. But can we try and keep this Pro Shep/Weir and leave the OT to PMs or in the thread they belong in? I hope that didn't sound snobby.

[Dorka]

Whaaa...I just hit 800....the magic number with new icons *goes looking for them*

[Jenova Synthesis]

I could spend several years typing out everything we've talked about. We base our idea of the Shep/Teyla ship on the dynamic between the two, mainly in the early parts of Season 1, the Cave Scene in Rising is something we always talk about. That scene had some incredibly tenderness to it (in our opinion). Then only a few episodes later, Suspicion. Throughout that episode, he lends his trust of Teyla to everyone. Going so far as the say "Open The Damn Gate" to Bates. Then in the same episode, Bates makes a sinker of a line. "Sir, I believe you're letting your personal feelings get in the way of your judgement." We actually cite paranoid Bates for alot of our reasons. I'll refrain from saying anything about Conversion because I'm sure you all know about it. We talk about a deep bond between Shep and Teyla, but I see how you can see the same thing between Shep and Weir. I supose you could argue this point any way, I'm just giving alittle insight out and hopefully bringing some back to my thread. Maybe I'll stop by from time. Hope I answered some of your question. I have a tendency to not be clear.

Okay, we discuss: the cave scene is in the very first ep. I agree with Bama that there was sexual attraction. Talking about Rising you forgot to mention that forehead thing.
John takes care of all his team mates. You forget that it wasn't just Teyla out there in suspicion.
In Conversation John wasn't himself. If you noticed the end of this ep: they both said it was nothing. And for me this was the end of every John/Teyla story line.
Liz and John care for each other, they are friends, they trust each other, they can talk to each other, they understand the other. They just have chemistry. And in addition in one of the last interviews on Gateworld you can read the line "the relationship of Shep and Elizabeth will definitely continue in the future".

Okay now I hate me for doing this, but I told you. I don't like that. I don't appreciate it.
And my English f++king sucks when I'm angry.

[SGLAB]

Luz, I was feeling a bit wary of the TLG spoilers too and still am to some extent. But one thing I think about is the fact that they've done so well with this relationship overall.

I'm liking the spoilers from Critical Mass. It sounds like my kind of scene. It's really the small things about them. The subtle moments.

For me it was never really a single moment that got me into this pair. In Seige III the

Spoiler:

hug was great

but the way they interacted through the whole ep. I thought flowed really well. It's really just the relationship as a whole that I like.