Ronon Dex/Jennifer Keller Appreciation/Ship/Discussion (Doctor & Wild Man)

[Everlovin]

I just can't wrap my head around Todd/Jenn. Any wraith/human ship for that matter.

[Jper]

I just don't understand why the writing was so incredibly inconsistent for the fifth season... For example, since we are talking about Tracker: In Tracker Rodney's character seemed to suddenly have lost all his development from the previous seasons, and Ronon was reverted back to just being the mad-man, grumpy Satedan, and you-know diminished to just his usual stereotype role...

I'm sorry, but I really did not see any team-work in Tracker like Bailey said, I saw just the opposite. Ronon and Rodney barely putting up with each other...

The only thing I liked in Tracker was Jennifer. At least most of the time she was the character I think she ought to be. And according to "that character", I do indeed believe, if she'd found out about Rodney-Ronon-last-scene she'd have told them both to get lost... However, the more I think about this, the more it makes me realize how inconsistent (and weak) Jennifer's character/writing was. One episode would be like Tracker, then suddenly she'd revert back to whimpering and whining as if "Missing" (Jennifer and Teyla episode) had never happened...

I think most of you here know, that in theory, I'd have liked Rodney/Jennifer (In theory, 'cause I have lots to say about the actual thing on screen that we saw, that I didn't like.), but I could have dealt with Ronon/Jennifer. Why? Well, if it had been portrayed consistent and good, starting after Quarantine, it totally wouldn't have bothered me. IMHO Trio was the turning point for Jennifer, and from then on, it was Jennifer/Rodney for me. But, for Christ's sake, then stick with it! Suddenly in season five, it was like Trio had never happened, and there was this whole Rodney-Ronon thing! Both Ronon's and Rodney's character suffered heavily due to this IMHO!

But then again, I have never understood TPTB, if it had been me I'd have paired Rodney up with Cadman in season three (even season 2, starting with Duet), or at least explored that more... Then if that was actually present, Rodney-Jennifer would never have been an option and Ronon-Jennifer would probably have been the way to go!

Don't misunderstand me, though, I totally think Rodney-Katie was THE way to go for some character development for Rodney. I really think Rodney needed that, including the whole Quarantine thing! But! But! At least then afterwards let Rodney keep this, let this development be, instead of just writing like it never happened!

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear what bothered me with or about almost everything I didn't like... I always thought it was a lack of consistency. Discarding actual previous events/development like they/it had never happened.

[Blencathra]

I just can't wrap my head around Todd/Jenn. Any wraith/human ship for that matter.

It's the dangerous vampiry bad boy with long hair & leather type thingy that does it for me, Ever.

Just let me eat my ribs & I'll reply to yours Jper. Though I basically I agree with what you say.

[bailey1ak]

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear what bothered me with or about almost everything I didn't like... I always thought it was a lack of consistency. Discarding actual previous events/development like they/it had never happened.

Jper, I'd have to agree that especially in the lead up to the Triangle there was a lot of inconsistancy. What is also so interesting is what each person takes away from an episode. Since I don't really know but three other people that watch the show and one is my daughter, I only get to read and discuss through the internet, but I find everyones takes it just a little (or a lot) different.

It is even more apparent when reading fanfiction. When seeing what people write or who they pair or how they interpret the characters. It becomes even more apparent in reviews of my own stories. I can have someone gloss over a part I really liked when I wrote while they praise a part that I struggled to write and never liked even after the many rewrites.

I would imagine that getting the chance (because I missed it the first go round since I wasn't part of this forum) to discuss the episodes as they aired would have been a blast and interesting to see each persons take on what they saw. I will definitely have to rewatch Tracker now though, if only to view it after hearing others take on the episode.

[bailey1ak]

It's the dangerous vampiry bad boy with long hair & leather type thingy that does it for me, Ever.

I'm with Ever on this one. I think though Blen that you nailed the reason for me... I have a hard time with the vampire/romance angles in any story. I keep waiting for... during the lean in for a kiss, for the vampire to lean a little further and nip the neck.

Same think with Todd, a part of me waiting for the Wraith side of him to take over and view her as lunch.

[Everlovin]

Ultimately, I think all of the characters suffered from lack of consistant writing. Jennifer and Ronon most obviously to me, but then, that could simply be that I'm a fan of these characters and pairing more than most others. We went from intelligent Ronon is S2 to caveman Ronon in S5. We got the same with Jenn. One minute she was very capable and sure of herself, and then not and back again.

Rodney got some of the same treatment. Although with him it's more of a reset back to point A with him rather than a totally different path. (I know I'm mixing my metaphors there)

For me, the best character to pair with Rodney was Laura. And they obviously didn't do anything with that. And I hated Rodney/Katie with a burning fire. IMO, she was simpered entirely too much. And I might be booed off this thread, but I'd rather Rodney with Jenn than Katie.

and yeah, actual character progression was lacking in all of them. Or, if there was, it was totally out of context and unbelievable.

And I forgot the other point I was going to make. Hmmm. It'll come back to me.

[Blencathra]

I just don't understand why the writing was so incredibly inconsistent for the fifth season... For example, since we are talking about Tracker: In Tracker Rodney's character seemed to suddenly have lost all his development from the previous seasons, and Ronon was reverted back to just being the mad-man, grumpy Satedan, and you-know diminished to just his usual stereotype role...

Yup, we see Ronon doing his wildman thing in the Daedalus Variations & later eating huge slabs of meat caveman stylee. It was shoddy, lazy writing IMO. Like TPTB just couldn't be bothered to develop him any more.

I'm sorry, but I really did not see any team-work in Tracker like Bailey said, I saw just the opposite. Ronon and Rodney barely putting up with each other...

I've always seen Ronon & Rodney's relationship being based on snark. Rodney calls him a caveman etc. And while I thought they would probably never hang out together as such, I did think that deep down they came to respect each other's talents - as evidenced by the events in Tracker where each has to use his strengths to rescue Jennifer.

The only thing I liked in Tracker was Jennifer. At least most of the time she was the character I think she ought to be. And according to "that character", I do indeed believe, if she'd found out about Rodney-Ronon-last-scene she'd have told them both to get lost... However, the more I think about this, the more it makes me realize how inconsistent (and weak) Jennifer's character/writing was. One episode would be like Tracker, then suddenly she'd revert back to whimpering and whining as if "Missing" (Jennifer and Teyla episode) had never happened...

Totally agree. I thought the writing for Jennifer was the most inconsistent of any of the characters. She's clever/she's dumb, she's cowardly/she's brave. It seemed to me that each writer pulled her about to fit whatever story they were planning, whether it fit in with her character or not. As they's ditched Teyla by this time, she had to be all things to each writer.

But then again, I have never understood TPTB, if it had been me I'd have paired Rodney up with Cadman in season three (even season 2, starting with Duet), or at least explored that more... Then if that was actually present, Rodney-Jennifer would never have been an option and Ronon-Jennifer would probably have been the way to go!

Don't misunderstand me, though, I totally think Rodney-Katie was THE way to go for some character development for Rodney. I really think Rodney needed that, including the whole Quarantine thing! But! But! At least then afterwards let Rodney keep this, let this development be, instead of just writing like it never happened!

Anyways, I think it's pretty clear what bothered me with or about almost everything I didn't like... I always thought it was a lack of consistency. Discarding actual previous events/development like they/it had never happened.

I could have quite easily liked Rodney/Laura or Rodney/Katy or even Rodney/Elizabeth. Like you say, I just wish they had been consistent & not leapt about all over place pairing people up & then separating them again. If they were going with Ronon/Jenn then they should have stuck with it. OIr if they decided that Ronon/Jenn wasn't they way to go then they shouldn't have shown any more of it.

I'm with Ever on this one. I think though Blen that you nailed the reason for me... I have a hard time with the vampire/romance angles in any story. I keep waiting for... during the lean in for a kiss, for the vampire to lean a little further and nip the neck.

Same think with Todd, a part of me waiting for the Wraith side of him to take over and view her as lunch.

Now Mitchell from Being Human can bite my neck any time.

[dragongirl]

Mitchell or Henry from Blood Ties

[Jper]

Or if they decided that Ronon/Jenn wasn't they way to go then they shouldn't have shown any more of it.

I'll just pick this out of your post, Blen. I hope you don't mind.

See, that's what I don't get. First we have Quarantine. Obviously lovely moment for Ronon & Jennifer. Absolutely well/nicely done. No problems with me. Then we have Trio where this happens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj5YfnENYfY

Okay, still no problem with me. Obviously TPTB want to move on...
And then season four even ends with Jennifer-Rodney.
All good and well, me looking forward to season five, no problems...

But then season five. Suddenly Trio and TLM didn't happen? Ronnon suddenly is interested again?! And Jennifer doesn't seem to be moving on anymore from Ronon to Rodney, but is caught in between? And at first you think, well this isn't right, I'm misreading this, and then Tracker happens, and then I was like WTF? Ronon and Rodney are going to fight over it? And then it all fell apart.

So it is really interesting how you say "they shouldn't have shown anymore of it", 'cause from my POV, but I could be wrong, in season four they did move away from it and they did stop showing Ronon-Jennifer, but then suddenly in season five it was there again. And to me that felt like so "out of the blue" and annoying, certainly in the beginning. That totally didn't make any sense for me, and that was (is) my biggest objection against Ronon/Jennifer. I thought they were lovely in Quarantine, but then it sort of got "lost".

As you can see, I've been thinking about this a lot, and I think season four was the main reason I went with Rodney-Jennifer, and the beginning of season five was the main reason why I couldn't stand Ronon-Jennifer at that time. I bet for persons who are more into Ronon-Jennifer it's something similar.

I'm still at loss whatever happened so suddenly between S4 and S5, 'cause I will really never understand this. Martin Gero sits there in the video I've just posted doing all this explaining and it all fits for season four, and where they want to go and all, but then when I watch season five I see nothing of what he's telling us anymore.

ETA/
Another video: all the Ronon-Jennifer scenes from Quarantine.
An episode where I really liked Jennifer/Ronon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laTpxdSE-e0

[Everlovin]

I will grant you, about 60-75% of our ship squees came from Quarantine. I didn't realize it was only 9 minutes worth of the episode. It seemed way more epic than that. One of the main things I liked about it was there were real bonding moments between the two. We got to see Ronon (the way I see it anyway) encouraging Jenn to be more than she thinks she is - the whole O2 tank thing. They talked about her need to help people. Him talking about Melena - who he hasn't talked about to anyone. It was a great building block for our ship!

And then it was ignored. Ok, I'm used to that. Ronon got ignored a lot. In fact, when watching First Strike and listening to the commentary, the whole reason he was given the line "I gotta learn this science stuff" (or something like that) was because Ronon was just standing around and the writers didn't know what to do with him. Seems like par for the course.

At the time, we didn't have the deleted scene from Trio and we were all going to JM's blog asking about when our ship was going to get any more goodies and he kept saying it's coming. Fine.

And then nearly all subtle stuff clear up until Tracker. Man! What a dry spell. Of course, by then we all knew about the triangle o'Doom and I knew how that would go. I just thought I'd get more than a couple of blinks toward Ronon/Jenn.

Like I said, if they'd come out and said "It's going to be Rodney/Jenn" I'd have been ok. But we kept hearing how they're going to go with Ronon/Jenn. Doesn't she remind you all of Melena? Isn't it about time for Ronon to get a life? Etc, and then jerked all of that away from us. *sigh*

Ok, I think I'm done ranting for the time being.

By the way...
Bailey has another chapter of her Cam/Jenn fic up! Lasting Bonds

[Jper]

I will grant you, about 60-75% of our ship squees came from Quarantine. I didn't realize it was only 9 minutes worth of the episode. It seemed way more epic than that. One of the main things I liked about it was there were real bonding moments between the two. We got to see Ronon (the way I see it anyway) encouraging Jenn to be more than she thinks she is - the whole O2 tank thing. They talked about her need to help people. Him talking about Melena - who he hasn't talked about to anyone. It was a great building block for our ship!

Well Quarantine was a good episode! Especially for Ronon and Jennifer. In retrospect, back then I had a real problem with the Melena things, but over time I've come to see it in a different light. As I've said, I really liked them in Quarantine. And 8 mins is a lot for an episode such as Quarantine. Another really positive thing about Quarantine was that not only it was good for the Ronon-Jennifer relationship, it was also good for the characters separately. It was good for Ronon and good for Jennifer, if you know what I mean.

Ok, I think I'm done ranting for the time being.

Yes, so am I.

[dragongirl]

This is the way I saw the love triangle. first we see something between Ronon and Jennifer small things that show a definite attraction but not really knowing each other so nothing. Then they are stuck together in Quarantine and suddenly they find themselves in a position where they are more or less stuck in a room with a person they are for all intense and purposes in lust with (although I will consed that lust is probably too strong a word for it). They talk and they get a glimpse, maybe a bit more than a glimpse, of the person they hide. They become comfortable enough to have both been willing to kiss the other and put themselves in a position to be hurt. (The whole thing came fast but at the same time I was happy to see it).

Admittedly after Quarantine there is nothing between Ronon and Jennifer but then again SGA has always moved on and forgets everything that happened the week before, plus Ronon going to Earth with John and blah blah. Trio comes along and Jennifer is uncertain she had a moment with Ronon there was obviously a moment between them and yet nothing has really happened he didn't make a move and she isn't sure if she should, or if he would want her to. The comment was made about drinks with McKay which to me still was we had a crapy sh!t day where we fell down a hole, McKay finds out that he is single now and we need booze to feel better.

Again nothing then TLM and we see that there was nothing at all between McKay and Jennifer and only during a 3 week trip back to Earth when they were finally able to sit and really talk did they develop anything at all. Slow build up of a relationship really on Earth who else can they talk about everything they had been through on Atlantis so it would only be natural.

S5 They ignore anything between Jennifer, Ronon, and McKay. Tracker comes along Ronon going with Jennifer to a friendly planet we assume because he wants to spend time with her (since we didn't see what lead to him going with her we can only guess what reason he had for going) McKay goes and we know he is doing it to be near Jennifer he tell John as much and is upset to see that Ronon is going. Jennifer gets kidnapped and both want to help how? Ronon wants to do what he does best he can track and he can find her as soon as humanly possible. McKay can't do that stuff so he wants to run and get help with technology in the hopes of getting to her before anything bad happens. Ronon and Jennifer share that look he knows that she is aware that he isn't the hard @$$ that everyone things and he is reminding her of that. She is again wondering maybe....(note that bit about the look is how I interpreted that moment). The conversation between McKay and Ronon at the end on one hand pisses me off but if I really think about it no it doesn't. They both want her they know that they know that if they go to her and point blank say "Who do you like more" will be a bad thing. So they do the best thing which is nothing. They will both talk to her as if they alone are pursuing her, I believe they have too much respect for each other to make the other look bad and they are saying no matter what happens this is her choice. We will let her make up her own mind and we will let it go if they are not the "winner" as it were.

Then suddenly TLT and the "interested in someone else" WTF?! there was NOTHING between her and either of them then she is shooting Ronon down. And then in BS "I love you have for a while now" are you kidding me?? when we never see them together they never talked personally and they are suddenly all in love with each other?!

I supported Ronon and Jennifer since Doppleganger because I saw something between them that could grow into a relationship. He was different with her while I know some people criticize him being out of character but I saw it more as him not wanting to scare her away because he was interested. If I had seen anything between Jennifer and McKay I might have bought it but I never did Trio was a drink between friends nothing else. I mean he had thought he was still dating Katie until Jennifer and Sam told him um she dumped you so why would what happened with the drink be a date?

okay I think I took up enough time and space with this

[whitemunin]

I hated the Triangle for several reasons, even though I enjoyed watching Tracker. Honestly, I was pretty distrustful of the writers at that point, so my enjoyment came strictly from watching two hot men in leather. Yes, I can be that shallow.

Like DG, I started shipping Ronon/Keller with Doppleganger. The pairing had enormous potential just because of the dichotomy between the characters. This is a writer's dream challenge. Quarantine, in my opinion, was well-played between these two. Subtle enough, but it laid down some expectations--at least for me.

When they didn't address it again in following episodes, I chalked it up the nature of the show--a plot based sci-fi series, where the focus is storyline and action with characterization coming as a close second. I'm okay with that but still expect not only some effort toward characterization but also continuity and developing character arc.

Tracker, in my opinion, revealed lazy writing and character arcs that came to a screeching halt for Ronon, Jennifer and Rodney. That, and I felt like I was being played by the writers. Toss out hints that we'd see a pairing of Ronon/Keller and then maybe Rodney/Keller. I just kept thinking "Oh for God's sake, make up your mind already!" Had it been the first pairing, I would have cheered because I sail that ship and thought there was a solid setup for it. I would have been okay with the Rodney/Keller pairing if I didn't feel it came out of nowhere. No setup for it, or if there was, it was so weak IMO, it didn't register with me.

I like the Rodney character because of his many flaws. He is a complex character in that respect, but pairing him with Jennifer never made any sense to me because I felt the writers never took the time to ground them in the possibility of one the way they did with Ronon/Keller.

The whole competition thing between Ronon and Rodney just made me roll my eyes. Very juvenile and a piss-poor reflection of what their characters were in previous seasons. I felt like I was watching the SGA version of Drake and Josh fighting over the prom queen.

My overall impression of the writers by the end of the series was they were tired of writing it and ready to move on to something else. Characterization, continuity and just overall structure fell to the wayside in a big way.

[Jper]

I felt like I was watching the SGA version of Drake and Josh fighting over the prom queen.

Green for that! Awesome comparison.

[dragongirl]

Maybe that is the real reason SGA was canceled the writers saw how badly they had done and the reactions of fans and went oh we should just stop while we are ahead (too bad for them they were a head in S4 not in S5) and start a new show that way we can write crap and no one will complain later we started writing crap suddenly because it will always be crap.