Ronon Dex/Jennifer Keller Appreciation/Ship/Discussion (Doctor & Wild Man)

[Everlovin]

No

Spoiler:

hand holding is good. Proves then that all spoilers aren't necessarily correct.

I think I might force myself to watch it.

OK I'm off to bed now. It's 5 a.m. See you later.

P.S. Rodney stole a percent from us on the MGM poll

I think that point went to Shep. Ronon's been holding pretty steady at 68-69 percent. Rodney went down too.

[Blencathra]

Morning everyone.

I have things to do this morning so I may not be able to watch the episode. First time I've ever thought thank goodness.

Poll is currently 67 - 22- 11.

[Blencathra]

I watched it.

Some thoughts....

Spoiler:

I am getting more and more convinced in my own mind that woman is not Jennifer.

For starters she says that although the gene therapy did work, it gave the wraith cancer and that is what killed them. Cancer??! Didn't look much like cancer to me.

Jennifer has been gaining a hell of a lot in confidence and then suddently it all seems to have vanished. She acts all self doubting and tells Rodney how wonderful he is to be doing this all the time. Puhlease??!!!! Classic manipulation.

She seems very relucant to cure the disease at times. Is this because she can't. (as she isn't Jennifer?)

Something else that struck me was how she seems to pluck ideas out of peoples minds, particularly those to whom she is in close proximity. In BS she says exactly the same lines that Rodney said to her in The Shrine. (The I've loved you for a long time crap). Then here in this episode she suddenly wants to save the data for the IOA. Since when did Jennifer give two hoots about the IOA? I think she got that bit from Woolsey's brain.

Also she seemed very surprised when Todd mentioned about using the Iratus bug in the treatment but covered it up very quickly. Then she incorporated it into some nonsense about how she tried and discarded it.

Then she "tries" to effect a cure but makes absolutely no progress whatsoever. Our Jennifer is cleverer than that. So in the end it is Todd who has to save the day.

Then at the end Todd has not responded to any treatment. Of course he wont. Neeva hasn't got the foggiest idea how to treat him.

I'm guessing that whenever something needs doing in the infirmary, she would delegate it to another member of staff but the gene therapy is her baby and she can't.

So she's just improvising as best she can - perhaps with the help of some device to get strong ideas from other people's brains.

I hope I'm right!

P.S. I'm going to feel a right idiot when that idea turns out to be wrong and it's just the writers who are rubbish at writing for her.

[Blencathra]

Just had a thought, she might have got the

Spoiler:

"Loved your for some time" rubbish from Rodney's video diary. She would access to all that, wouldn't she? So perhaps she dosn't need a mind reading device, just uses what she can find out about people.

Hmmmm. I can see I'm going to have to watch BS closely. I had skipped bits and fast forward bits and turned the sound down & managed to miss quite a lot of it. So I am going to torture myself and analyse it closely. Wish me luck! If I don't re-appear send out search parties!

[Blencathra]

Well I think there is only me around today.

Found this from an interview on GW homepage with that goit Gero.

Spoiler:

GW: To my knowledge this is only the second time in Stargate history -- I may be wrong -- that two main cast members have expressed intimate feelings for each other. You had Jack O'Neill and Sam, and then you had these two, Rodney and Keller. Did this happen because you guys knew Atlantis was concluding, or did you specifically want these characters to grow in this way?

A very vocal group of fans have expressed resentment to the McKay/Keller romance. Because it's kind of a risk. The whole fan fiction people are like, "Leave the romance and everything as very suggestive so we can play with that." Where did this come from?

MG: I don't think we should leave all of the fun to the fan fic people. Certainly some of us on the show need to have some fun as well. Look, for me, I've said this probably to you personally a thousand times over the five years. To me it's about the characters. Who those characters love and love back is a big part of that to me. It's a big part of who we all are. To say that that doesn't have a place on a character-based show, I take issue with that.

Certainly you don't want to have them all dating each other.

GW: Yeah, it's not As the Stargate Turns.

MG: No. We played around with a little love triangle. But of course it was never going to go Keller/Ronon. They're not right for each other, those two … Well, I don't want to give too much away. In "Prodigal" he meets someone like Amelia. He's got a little heat there with Amelia. That makes sense, the whole kickboxing thing.

GW: She's tough.

MG: Yeah, she's tough. Not that Keller's not tough, but in different ways. Those two have always made a lot of sense to me. I've been trying to get them together since "Trio" for Christ sake, laying the groundwork.

I'm not going to say what I think of that arrogant prat's ideas because this is a PG forum.

Lets just hope that Carl Binder can write us out of this mess. Either that or we will just go with Nika's fic as our canon. Nika writes a million times better than that ******. (put on rude word of your choice)

[badboyzII~86]

Hi Blen Im here for a little bit

[badboyzII~86]

Well I think there is only me around today.

Found this from an interview on GW homepage with that goit Gero.

Spoiler:

GW: To my knowledge this is only the second time in Stargate history -- I may be wrong -- that two main cast members have expressed intimate feelings for each other. You had Jack O'Neill and Sam, and then you had these two, Rodney and Keller. Did this happen because you guys knew Atlantis was concluding, or did you specifically want these characters to grow in this way?

A very vocal group of fans have expressed resentment to the McKay/Keller romance. Because it's kind of a risk. The whole fan fiction people are like, "Leave the romance and everything as very suggestive so we can play with that." Where did this come from?

MG: I don't think we should leave all of the fun to the fan fic people. Certainly some of us on the show need to have some fun as well. Look, for me, I've said this probably to you personally a thousand times over the five years. To me it's about the characters. Who those characters love and love back is a big part of that to me. It's a big part of who we all are. To say that that doesn't have a place on a character-based show, I take issue with that.

Certainly you don't want to have them all dating each other.

GW: Yeah, it's not As the Stargate Turns.

MG: No. We played around with a little love triangle. But of course it was never going to go Keller/Ronon. They're not right for each other, those two … Well, I don't want to give too much away. In "Prodigal" he meets someone like Amelia. He's got a little heat there with Amelia. That makes sense, the whole kickboxing thing.

GW: She's tough.

MG: Yeah, she's tough. Not that Keller's not tough, but in different ways. Those two have always made a lot of sense to me. I've been trying to get them together since "Trio" for Christ sake, laying the groundwork.

I'm not going to say what I think of that arrogant prat's ideas because this is a PG forum.

Lets just hope that Carl Binder can write us out of this mess. Either that or we will just go with Nika's fic as our canon. Nika writes a million times better than that ******. (put on rude word of your choice)

What the hell is gero on about. Man doesn't know his mouth from his ******* to be honest. biggest load of rubbish ever. Not right for eachother my right *** *****

[Blencathra]

Hi BB.

That's what I thought. Words cannot begin to express the contempt I have for that man.

And he thinks that McKeller is wonderful! How come the rest of us can see zero chemistry between them. In fact there is so little of it, watching anything romantic between them makes me feel nauseous like they are doing something obscene.

And that Neeva theory was working out so well.

[badboyzII~86]

Hi BB.

That's what I thought. Words cannot begin to express the contempt I have for that man.

And he thinks that McKeller is wonderful! How come the rest of us can see zero chemistry between them. In fact there is so little of it, watching anything romantic between them makes me feel nauseous like they are doing something obscene.

And that Neeva theory was working out so well.

I haven't seen the ep yet, but im just annoyed that there seems to be little consideration to the feelings of fans. Lets be honest, most fans like the ideas of ships, thats why we are here. But do we want it on the screen as canon, id say not. The reason i see, is that because they (writers) are terrible at writing for females, and terrible at writing romance, it makes the whole experience for most.

Sure there are some die hards who love it, good for them, but honestly, the writers cannot write good romance, they should not try. leave it as a hint, let us fill in the blanks. Everyone has different opinions on romance, feelings etc, we are all human. But for me, shows like atlantis should not be subjected to romance canon. It does not work! I like to see the relationships of the characters, but let my own imagination fill it in ptb, don't force it in my mind. I will not accept it, and never will.

[badboyzII~86]

Neeva will happen, it will live as Needy I swear it will, i shall make it so, in my mind, and the appropriate thread eventually blen, just you see

[badboyzII~86]

And another thing, why, when tptb, writers etc knew that the show was unlikely to continue, go ahead and write a ship into canon in the last half, or quarter of the episodes left. what logic is that. you turn away the loyal people when you do that. much as mckellers might argue it, they are in a minority

[Blencathra]

Thanks BB. You're a honey.

I am irratated beyond endurance with that man. And I agree with you to a certain extent about not having canon ship in SGA. However, I could have lived with mcKeller if it had been indicated from the start and Ronon hadn't got involved at all. But as it is, we could see shippiness right from Doppelganger and then we got Quarantine. BUT then that idiot decided that McKeller was the way it was going to be and, despite all evidence to the contrary that they are attracted, has forced it down our throats. If they had decided way back that McKeller was the way it was going to be, then why drag Ronon into this stupid triangle. Why not just leave him alone?

Edit - another good point BB.

[badboyzII~86]

Thanks BB. You're a honey.

I am irratated beyond endurance with that man. And I agree with you to a certain extent about not having canon ship in SGA. However, I could have lived with mcKeller if it had been indicated from the start and Ronon hadn't got involved at all. But as it is, we could see shippiness right from Doppelganger and then we got Quarantine. BUT then that idiot decided that McKeller was the way it was going to be and, despite all evidence to the contrary that they are attracted, has forced it down our throats. If they had decided way back that McKeller was the way it was going to be, then why drag Ronon into this stupid triangle. Why not just leave him alone?

Edit - another good point BB.

Anytime Blen

Well true, once they included ronon in the triangle, it involved elements it should not have, for me anyway. i mean my dislike for keller is known, but i don't rub it in here. mckeller, probably annoys me more to be honest. And for me, the final insult was that he things anti keller people are just angry because cason was killed. no its because its push push push with her, and it never was with anyone else.

With ronon/keller, if it had been allowed to develop, would i be complaining, more than likely because i would find faults with it. But ill say this. It has got less faults than mckeller does, which is nothing more than a geeky obsession with finding a nerd his lady friend. And even then its not love, the actors certainly don't put much effort into it. Ronon/Jason puts subtle emotion into how he acts around atlantis, and it would have worked with keller i think. Mckay bumbling about is more adorable i would suggest, if not disturbing to some, to keller, than the wild passion and tension she feels when the wild man enters her domain

[Everlovin]

I watched it.

Some thoughts....

Spoiler:

I am getting more and more convinced in my own mind that woman is not Jennifer.

For starters she says that although the gene therapy did work, it gave the wraith cancer and that is what killed them. Cancer??! Didn't look much like cancer to me.

Jennifer has been gaining a hell of a lot in confidence and then suddently it all seems to have vanished. She acts all self doubting and tells Rodney how wonderful he is to be doing this all the time. Puhlease??!!!! Classic manipulation.

She seems very relucant to cure the disease at times. Is this because she can't. (as she isn't Jennifer?)

Something else that struck me was how she seems to pluck ideas out of peoples minds, particularly those to whom she is in close proximity. In BS she says exactly the same lines that Rodney said to her in The Shrine. (The I've loved you for a long time crap). Then here in this episode she suddenly wants to save the data for the IOA. Since when did Jennifer give two hoots about the IOA? I think she got that bit from Woolsey's brain.

Also she seemed very surprised when Todd mentioned about using the Iratus bug in the treatment but covered it up very quickly. Then she incorporated it into some nonsense about how she tried and discarded it.

Then she "tries" to effect a cure but makes absolutely no progress whatsoever. Our Jennifer is cleverer than that. So in the end it is Todd who has to save the day.

Then at the end Todd has not responded to any treatment. Of course he wont. Neeva hasn't got the foggiest idea how to treat him.

I'm guessing that whenever something needs doing in the infirmary, she would delegate it to another member of staff but the gene therapy is her baby and she can't.

So she's just improvising as best she can - perhaps with the help of some device to get strong ideas from other people's brains.

I hope I'm right!

P.S. I'm going to feel a right idiot when that idea turns out to be wrong and it's just the writers who are rubbish at writing for her.

Unfortunately, I think it's more of the second. The writers consistently write female characters inconsistantly. That makes sense, right? Jenn more so than some others.

Well I think there is only me around today.

Found this from an interview on GW homepage with that goit Gero.

Spoiler:

GW: To my knowledge this is only the second time in Stargate history -- I may be wrong -- that two main cast members have expressed intimate feelings for each other. You had Jack O'Neill and Sam, and then you had these two, Rodney and Keller. Did this happen because you guys knew Atlantis was concluding, or did you specifically want these characters to grow in this way?

A very vocal group of fans have expressed resentment to the McKay/Keller romance. Because it's kind of a risk. The whole fan fiction people are like, "Leave the romance and everything as very suggestive so we can play with that." Where did this come from?

MG: I don't think we should leave all of the fun to the fan fic people. Certainly some of us on the show need to have some fun as well. Look, for me, I've said this probably to you personally a thousand times over the five years. To me it's about the characters. Who those characters love and love back is a big part of that to me. It's a big part of who we all are. To say that that doesn't have a place on a character-based show, I take issue with that.

Certainly you don't want to have them all dating each other.

GW: Yeah, it's not As the Stargate Turns.

MG: No. We played around with a little love triangle. But of course it was never going to go Keller/Ronon. They're not right for each other, those two … Well, I don't want to give too much away. In "Prodigal" he meets someone like Amelia. He's got a little heat there with Amelia. That makes sense, the whole kickboxing thing.

GW: She's tough.

MG: Yeah, she's tough. Not that Keller's not tough, but in different ways. Those two have always made a lot of sense to me. I've been trying to get them together since "Trio" for Christ sake, laying the groundwork.

I'm not going to say what I think of that arrogant prat's ideas because this is a PG forum.

Lets just hope that Carl Binder can write us out of this mess. Either that or we will just go with Nika's fic as our canon. Nika writes a million times better than that ******. (put on rude word of your choice)

I vote Nika for canon. No pressure there, dearheart. And as the writers are all for romance - subtly - on the show, but they seem to be fairly monogomous regarding them. They decided early on that Sam and Jack are canon. Later it would be Daniel and Vala. There is some controversy between John/Liz or John/Teyla, but all the interviews I've read with JF says that Sheyla is the canon ship. They have DECIDED these. Why introduce Ronon/Jenn if they were never planning on doing anything with it? And if I'm going to ship someone - Ronon/Amelia - I want them to have more than 15 seconds of facetime! There was heat in 15 seconds? So what if she can fight? TPTB also need to give us a real reason for them to get together!

Hi BB.

That's what I thought. Words cannot begin to express the contempt I have for that man.

And he thinks that McKeller is wonderful! How come the rest of us can see zero chemistry between them. In fact there is so little of it, watching anything romantic between them makes me feel nauseous like they are doing something obscene.

And that Neeva theory was working out so well.

I was lurking over at their thread a couple of days ago. There was someone quoting from an interview that Jewel gave - we may have linked it here or over at the Jewel appreciation thread, I'm not sure. Anyways, Jewel was laughing that on the set she and David have more of a brother - sister chemistry and the kisses were hard to film because of that. Sorry, I just couldn't type that word without comment. Wonder if anybody at Bridge Studio also sees the brother/sister vibe onscreen too regardless of what was written or acted?

I haven't seen the ep yet, but im just annoyed that there seems to be little consideration to the feelings of fans. Lets be honest, most fans like the ideas of ships, thats why we are here. But do we want it on the screen as canon, id say not. The reason i see, is that because they (writers) are terrible at writing for females, and terrible at writing romance, it makes the whole experience for most.

Sure there are some die hards who love it, good for them, but honestly, the writers cannot write good romance, they should not try. leave it as a hint, let us fill in the blanks. Everyone has different opinions on romance, feelings etc, we are all human. But for me, shows like atlantis should not be subjected to romance canon. It does not work! I like to see the relationships of the characters, but let my own imagination fill it in ptb, don't force it in my mind. I will not accept it, and never will.

If tptb were better at writing romance, then I don't really see the problem. I've seen epic shows like this that handled romance well. But if they keep this trend, I just might go Noromo on them for SGU!

And another thing, why, when tptb, writers etc knew that the show was unlikely to continue, go ahead and write a ship into canon in the last half, or quarter of the episodes left. what logic is that. you turn away the loyal people when you do that. much as mckellers might argue it, they are in a minority

That truly annoys me too. I mean, there are ships out there who don't have that level of "We're here!" We've never heard Jack/Sam I love you's. Nor for Daniel/Vala. JM said their not doing anything else for Sheyla this season. That's because they wrote themselves in a corner with Kanaan. And all of a sudden, 5 eps from the end, we get the least favored ship with I love you and everything? Grrrr!

Ok. I think I'm done with my rant for now.

[vatazes]

And another thing, why, when tptb, writers etc knew that the show was unlikely to continue, go ahead and write a ship into canon in the last half, or quarter of the episodes left. what logic is that. you turn away the loyal people when you do that. much as mckellers might argue it, they are in a minority

Very true BB. What you and Blen have been syaing here on the last few posts are ringing true. I just finished reading the Gero interview and would honestly like that 15 minutes of my life back, the same with the 60 I spent on BS. You know, I'm not a huge Sama nd Jack shipper. But I can sort of deal with it. But one thing I liked about that whole ship was they kept it on the down low for the most part, mainly sticking with AU to confirm it or subtle hints. Why couldn't Gero do that with this? I'm more convinced than ever after reading that article that McKay is Gero's 'Harry Sue'. There is no way around it. Yeah, it was great getting to see more backstory for McKay, more highlight into what it was for him before the SG program, etc. And I could have lived with Keller joining him as a platonic-friend date. Although frankly, bringing Sheppard would have made more sense. I could see why he wouldn't bring Radek, the whole competition thing with him. But at least with John he could bring his one-up game to its hieght! And it would have made sense!

I really should stop. I really should. I might give myself a stroke or something.... I don't know what Gero has it in for Ronon, but I have the distinct impression he does not like him. But as a writer for an ensemble show, he should know better than to treat a character like that. "Hey, let's dangle this bueatiful, smart and kind woman in front of the big ape and see how it works, just to tease him. It doesn't matter that they have better chemistry together than my Harry Sue and her".