Wraith Defenders Club

[Wraith Cake]

Both Ancient and Wraith ship technology require a specific gene/DNA to make them operational. It was developed during the war to keep the other side from being able to operate an opponent's ship. That's been my understanding of how the technology was created and how it functions anyway.

GS thought that the Wraith only used such a security device in their larger ships. I was suggesting that if the smaller puddle jumper of the Ancients required the operator to have the Ancient gene, then the smaller Wraith dart probably required the the operator to also have the Wraith gene.

I can't see why the Wraith would only use this security principle on the larger Hive and crusier ships. IMHO they wouldn't want the Ancients to be able to operate ANY of their ships. Just my 2 cents. Did I miss something?

I don't think you missed anything, but perhaps that's the problem. Oh well. I suppose the discussion here at the WDC should shift its focus from "is it (whatever we happen to be discussing at the time) credible?" to "is it believable?" The problem is, I don't think the story is even remaining believable anymore.

Todd's still cute though eh?



WK

[Laura Dove]

Aha, I found the post where I distributed good and bad points to Todd and Sheppard. Spoilers for season 5 episodes up to "First Contact".

[Sparrow_hawk]

I don't know, I found that whole thing interesting.

Spoiler:

I'll have to re-watch it but it seemed that Todd didn't understand the iratus bug connection. Or was unclear about the terminology. Anyway, it was interesting. And someone said something about Todd getting his feeding hand back. I also thought it was interesting that Todd was excited that the "procedure" worked so well that he started to administer it to the rest of his crew--so that means he started with himself?? Wow! Also, he was excited about the procedure. Wow again!

WK

@Gavatarman: Welcome to the thread! Feel free to jump in to whatever topic catches your interest.

@WK: I noticed the same thing!

Spoiler:

After Todd had told Keller that he thought the therapy would be useful for his expendable soldiers, he went and used it on himself first! And I'm going to have to watch it again, too, to get the Iratus bug info straight. Todd seemed pretty clear on Wraith with incurable illnesses being restored after allowing a Queen Iratus bug to feed on them. If they survived it.

And I really felt for Todd when he automatically raised his "feeding" hand to attack Sheppard, only to remember that he could no longer feed. But I think that he will be back to his normal self once he finds the bug.

[Wraith Cake]

O.K. I'm taking a break from shoveling snow... again. The squirrels were right (thick fur and big bushy tails), we're having a cold, snowy winter.

I agree with das and Lythisrose

Spoiler:

Shep is pissed off about Todd's willingness to sacrifice the Daedelus -- he says as much in one of their encounters. And Shep is also a bit afraid of Todd, but I think there is more to it than that. I think Shep (the lady - hahahaha Shep is the woman in that relationship) doth protest too much. I wonder if maybe, deep down, he does like and respect Todd, but he just can't allow himself those feelings. After all, Todd is supposed to be the enemy.

I have often thought this myself. I think he resents the fact that he can't trust the wraith, more than anything else (and he really really wants to). It's almost like he's angry with himself for trusting the wraith in the past. You know how some people get angry with themselves when they are betrayed, because they feel they are the cuckold and therefore to blame. The truth is, it is never "evil" to trust or to assume the best, but it is "evil" to betray and take advantage of others. Perhaps Shepard thinks his "naivety" has cost lives in the past, thus he blames himself, or perhaps his wife had an affair on him--who knows?" It's almost like he feels hurt by him. Hmmm interesting.

And Todd really is a damn good pilot; I just loved watching his intensity as he fought to get the ship under control! I'm not sure that was the turning point for Shep, but the whole pilot-to-pilot dynamic may have given him a new way of dealing with his feelings aobut Todd: it's o.k. to respect an enemy pilot for his skills, especially when he just used them to save you.

I think I figured out what bugged me so much about Shep in this episode.

Spoiler:

It wasn't just his wanton disregard for Todd's well-being, though that bothered me a lot.

He gets this "sucking lemons" look on his face when he is face with issues he doesn't want to deal with. My ex-husband used to get that same look when he had to do something he didn't want to be bothered with!

And I thought

Spoiler:

It seemed there was a pregnant pause/issue in the air when everyone was discussing the annihilation of the wraith, almost like this was an issue they were intentionally avoiding. Keller again alluded to it when she said they no longer have a need to feed so why would we kill them?[/B]

But I found Keller's comment about Shep very interesting:

Spoiler:

"He saves people, too. He just uses ... a different set of tools."

She has a very interesting perspective on things. I liked her a lot in this episode, probably because the writers did a better job with her dialogue. And I like seeing her interact with Todd!

And wasn't this supposed to be the episode where Todd was talking to a MALP? Didn't we see that in some behind-the-scenes picture on JM's blog? Or do I have my episodes confused. Again.

Ya, I was wondering when we were going to see this. Todd looked so sad when he was sitting the hospital bed. I did think it was corny at the end when he says to Shepard

Spoiler:

"I'll remember this..." As if Shepard was his best buddy again.

WK

[GoSpikey]

@Todd's Worshipper - **hugs** I totally understand. I think I would have been crying to if I wasn't taking cold medicine that totally numbs me out. But I did feel a strong surge of sadness break through when

Spoiler:

Todd lunged at Sheppard with his feeding hand raised but then realized he was powerless. Sheppard's smug look didn't help either. $&)(&%!

The meds are probably also going to affect my ability to comment as well, but luckily most of you have already stated most of what I thought.
One thing that bothered me that most haven't really touched upon was the scene with Todd

Spoiler:

& Keller. Again, my foggy brain might not be grasping the subtler nuances, but I was expecting much more from that scene. Probably because of the spoilers "Keller has an intelligent conversation with a Wraith" kinda hyped up my expectations. (You'd think I'd learn by now.) Anyway, the feeling I got from that scene was that Todd seems to think he's got humans figured out, but Keller is explaining to him some of the finer complexities of human thought. And maybe shedding some more light on Sheppard and that maybe he and Todd aren't as similar as Todd thinks. I dunno. I did like Keller in that scene though. Even with it being Todd, I'm not sure if I could be that cool toward a Wraith that, the last time I encountered him, he'd sent me on a one-way ticket to my death!

As much as Sheppard pissed me off in this episode, it really made me feel sorry for Joe Flanigan. I found myself thinking during the episode: Sheppard is really the hero and main character of this whole series and here it is Season 5and the writers haven't really developed him beyond a very 2-dimensional character. He's an exceptional soldier/pilot and as a person, likes football, movies, Johnny Cash and beer. They've always alluded to other lighter and darker shades of his personality but they've never explored anything behind it. And I think this is why I've gone 180 degrees from liking and being charmed by this character in the beginning to totally despising him now.

Ugh, I'm having such a hard time typing and keeping my eyes open. I'll have to watch the ep again to refresh it in my foggy brain. But right now I'm off for another nap. Colds suck! lol

mfw

Edit: LOL - sorry Spikey, it took me so long to post, you already covered my meager comment! Oh well!

Think nothing of it. *kissy*

I agree on John Sheppard. If they want to put him in a bad daylight in the final episodes, they're succeeding.

But telling Joe on his blog that he's not well liked now won't matter a dang thing. He's too much into his Tokyo trip and his precious SGU to still give a dang about SGA. It's done for them, and in those final episodes, it shows. Unfortunately.

[Wraith Cake]

*Hug*

Some of us, or rather all of us, feel exactly that way as well...

He was mean, very mean.

But

Spoiler:

crying about it won't make it go away. Now we can only look at how they treat him in EatG. Hey, at least stuff is somewhat fixed again (even though Todd was easy on that) for Todd to warn Atlantis about trouble coming up.

Don't think too much about what they make him wear. If he came back from the Wraith, it's logical that they are to make him chance clothes to make sure he's got nothing up his sleeves. They can never be certain about when Todd has gotten a better deal than the one he has with Atlantis.

Now go find some of those tissues, blow your nose one last time, take a deep, fresh breath, and feel better again.

lol!! Inhale *pink* exhale *blue*.

A girl friend of mine always say "smile" and keep smiling and the tears stop--poof!

WK

[Laura Dove]

Ya, I was wondering when we were going to see this. Todd looked so sad when he was sitting the hospital bed. I did think it was corny at the end when he says to Shepard

Spoiler:

"I'll remember this..." As if Shepard was his best buddy again.

In fact, I strongly disliked the ending, as I said in the Todd appreciation thread.

Come on, my dear wraith, don't let this puny human destroy who you are!

[Wraith Cake]

Me too!! Please, I want to be a part of your Club!)) ^_^

*Ting* The Wraith Tinkerbell has granted you clubship! *Ting, Ting, Ting* Do wraith tinkerbells have teeth?

Just post. I don't think anyone here cares who posts. We never run out of things to say, another person in the pot to gab with--Yea! Cooome on in!



WK

[Infinite-Possibilities]

Not that I want to draw the ire of the Wraith Defenders Club down upon myself, but lets say for the sake of argument what exactly was Sheppard supposed to do to save the rest of the Wraith crew?

[Sparrow_hawk]

*Ting* The Wraith Tinkerbell has granted you clubship! *Ting, Ting, Ting* Do wraith tinkerbells have teeth?

Just post. I don't think anyone here cares who posts. We never run out of things to say, another person in the pot to gab with--Yea! Cooome on in!



WK

Spikey, did you see Hellboy II? I think Wraith Tinkerbells would look a lot like the Tooth Faeries from that movie.

@Giwark: Welcome! We love fresh blood, uh, new members here!

[MCH]

Schweetums.

*Gives MCH a massage*

Oh, I dropped you a little line on the CT/Michael thread. I have them too!

Replied to you and IHS. Schweetums......Nice massage thanks

MCH

[Sparrow_hawk]

Not that I want to draw the ire of the Wraith Defenders Club down upon myself, but lets say for the sake of argument what exactly was Sheppard supposed to do to save the rest of the Wraith crew?

Hi Infinite-Possibilities! The wrath of the Wraith fans? Never fear, we don't bite. Not most of us. Well, not too often anyway.

The way things fell out,

Spoiler:

there was really nothing Sheppard could have done to save the crew. The Hiveship was in such bad shape that there was nothing more that could be done. I don't fault him for that. If the ship was salvageable, it would have been reasonable to let Todd take it to the Iratus Bug planet to try to save his own crew while Shep and Company headed back to Atlantis in their Puddlejumper

.

I've already posted elsewhere that I think

Spoiler:

Sheppard is conflicted about how to deal with Todd. I think that deep down he respects him, but since Todd is part of a predominantly hostile power in the Pegasus Galaxy, the soldier in Shep won't let him accept that positive attitude toward an "enemy". And all those conflicted feelings make him downright cranky when he has to interact with Todd. das mentioned earlier here that she thought Shep admired Todd's piloting abilities and I think she has a good point. Shep might have found it easier to relate to to Todd as a fellow pilot: it's o.k. to admire a guy's incredible piloting skills - even if he is on the other side, especially when it saves you and your crew. Kind of like World War I pilots. Just my opinion on the subject.

[masterling]

I don't know, I found that whole thing interesting.

Spoiler:

I'll have to re-watch it but it seemed that Todd didn't understand the iratus bug connection. Or was unclear about the terminology. Anyway, it was interesting. And someone said something about Todd getting his feeding hand back. I also thought it was interesting that Todd was excited that the "procedure" worked so well that he started to administer it to the rest of his crew--so that means he started with himself?? Wow! Also, he was excited about the procedure. Wow again!

WK

The way todd reacted,

Spoiler:

maybe the wraith didn’t evolve from the Irctus (sp) bug, but were influenced by it. It seems that he was not around at the time and the wraith may have been a weaker species back then. Im sure this is information that would have been passed down. I mean we know so little about them, maybe they are great story tellers!!

Not that I want to draw the ire of the Wraith Defenders Club down upon myself, but lets say for the sake of argument what exactly was Sheppard supposed to do to save the rest of the Wraith crew?

I dont think it would have been possible for shep or todd to save the crew, he just didnt have to be such and a$$. At one point todd even asks him to be honest with him. Shep had the upper had atleast he could be straight with Todd and shown respect. Todd always seems to respect Shep even after his hives have been distroyed, he held starving in a cell on atlantis.. the list goes on.

Warm Wraithy Welcome to Giwark and Gavatarman

THUNKING Ahead

Spoiler:

so while watching infection, the part where tood is talking about the "bug"... OMG his hand!!!! I dont know why he has to be so darn HAWT!!!! Even when he is sick and not speaking with the lyrical voice that he normally does, there was just sompn about that hand gustier and the way he said "bug." after i got over the initial "thunking" i thought, i bet das loved that! O, and when they wake him up, he just stands there, all shadowy and then says “Shepherd” THUNK. Actually every time he was shown was awesome! Grumpy todd, laughing Todd, sick todd to smiling todd, CH knows how to play it !!

[Wraith Cake]

Okay, you all are posting too fast for me again. All these discussions are really interesting and everybody makes very good points, but it's hard for me to follow you.

WK, about the discussion about wraith and morality, I'd just like to add two points. First, I can understand why a species like them would build such a society. When they have a choice between becoming like that or being wiped out, it's not really a choice, is it? That doesn't mean I like their society, but merely that I can understand and forgive them. I still hope they will evolve into something more acceptable for me, or at least, into a society that don't directly oppose mankind. If they continue to value the whole but not the individual, well... I disagree, but as long as they don't impose their views to humans, I accept it.

Agreed. Though, whenever a society has technology and refuses to use it for the good, (meaning I believe there are some universal issues that are good and evil--*some* meaning very few, but some), they are culpable. This is why we in the west are culpable when it comes to our buying power. We do not have to buy from companies such as Walmart, when there are other suitable options that are just as cheap. However, most people like the convenience of shopping there (in other words they're too lazy, ignorant and apathetic). Though this puts money in the pockets of a company with a well known track record of human rights violation--much more, much much more so than any other multinational corporation. Does this make us evil if we shop there? Does this make us evil, when we choose to buy products from companies that refuse to adhere to ethical standards in the treatment of children, its live stock and its work force? If we have no choice, meaning one is "impoverished" and has very few options--then of course this is like stealing bread to feed one's family. It is an act done out of desperation. If we are ignorant are we guilty of perpetuating this exploitation? No, but only temporarily, then one must get un-ignorant.
When one is not desperate, and no longer ignorant yet continues to shop and buy products that destroy lives across the globe--oh we are most definitely responsible, even if we do not see the consequences of this right away.

Have the wraith always been as desperate as they have been in the last five years? No. Absolutely not. They have been living quite well and have had the technology to change, they merely have not seen the need to do so--this is evil.

Second and more importantly, I refuse to blame the wraith for the writers inconsistencies. I accept what is shown/said on screen, and only that, as the absolute truth in the Stargate universe, even when it sounds scientifically absurd.

I understand, you feel strongly about this, and there is nothing wrong with that--however are you interested in "reading" the story differently? Meaning, acknowledging that your understanding is merely a "theory of understanding" not the only understanding. In other words, a reasonable argument should hold just as much water, if we are to truly respect each other's points of view here.
The issue isn't whether one accepts what the writers state or not, really who cares at the end of the day if the wraith descended from the white rhino, or the blue footed boobie? Thinking critically about what we read and watch and buy, for that matter, that I think is important.

"Yup, yup. days sed dat. yup, yup...ah huh--wherzz me banjo at?" (I get this mentality from some of the boys in my class, and nothing could be more frustrating)

After all it is not so much what a text states as the manner in which a text is read. Are people capable of accepting another "reading" of a story. Based on the evidence presented in the narrative of the story, I could quite logically argue that the origins of the wraith are not primarily the iratus bug. And I know I can, because I have before, "reasonably" and "structurally". What that indicates to me is that the writers have some skill in crafting their narrative--they have left it ambiguous. For the fun of it, I might even see if there could be a "feminist" reading of the story, or a "Marxist" reading of the story. I tend to like a New Criticism approach--where a text is an autonomous whole once it is created.

What you are speaking about is an Authorial reading of the story--where there is some indication within the story itself (not a direct line on the hello-phone to all the writers), what the author intended. But remember this is just an interpretation. The problem with this type of reading is that one finds inconsistencies in the story, because we think we know what the author's intended. In truth however, do we? Do we really know what was running through their heads? If we can state that we think Mallozzi was joking about the wraith wearing human skin coats, what gives us the right to translate his interpretation, when he has not given us any indication that he WAS joking? So, what I'm saying is that we can say Mallozzi was joking, if we are willing to accept that there is a "reasonable" reading of his meaning.

So, if Beckett explains the wraith evolved from the iratus bug feeding on humans, and considering he has no reason to lie, I believe him. I do even if it would make no sense in the real world, because it's not the real world, it's a fictional world where the only true laws of physics/biology/etc. are the ones the writers want to use. On the other hand, any off-screen comment is, IMO, non-canon, even if Joe Mallozzi or any other writer is the one who says it. So until it's clearly stated as such on show,

Oh, is that right? Who says? And why should we? (I'm being facetious here )
Do you know what I mean? I'm honestly not trying to be difficult, but many would argue that Mallozzi is the overseer of all the writing, so if he wants to make a statement like this then he has every right to and why shouldn't it be cannon?

I'll continue to refuse to believe wraith wear human skin.

Personally, I want to believe that it was a bunch of cr**.

The point isn't what the reading of the story is, the point is do you respect another "different" reading of the story that is attached to a "reasonable" argument?

Spoiler:

See the thing is, whenever someone states (not necessarily you--anyone could say this) that "I accept what Becket said" and "I accept what is shown/said on screen" implies that I do not, or that others do not.
I've never said anything about not accepting what Becket said--this would not be a reasonable "reading" of the story. Again, the issue isn't what is said, it is what is "meant" and what is "understood" that must also be important.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

Not that I want to draw the ire of the Wraith Defenders Club down upon myself, but lets say for the sake of argument what exactly was Sheppard supposed to do to save the rest of the Wraith crew?

Voices of descent are welcome. There is nothing wrong with this question what so ever. I'll have to re-watch the episode, but I think it has to do with accusing the wraith of the same treatment the humans are practicing. It's not a particularly "enlightened" view on the part of the humans. But, take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, because I have to go through it again.

WK