Wraith Defenders Club

[Sparrow_hawk]

Yeah -- I have trouble expressing the feelings and concepts in my head because they tend to be abstract. I just 'know' what I mean, but to put it in words is very difficult for me - takes me a long time before I find the right words to express exactly what I mean. That's why I come off sounding like a nutcase 99.9% of the time... :rolleyes

You don't give yourself enough credit. You are extremely eloquent. And as I have said before, you are not a nutcase, you are just passionate about what you believe.

Some viewers, like us, can feel sympathy towards the Wraith because they 'need to feed'. Take that away and just make them power hungry overlords, and there will be no defense left for them. It scares me that this may be the intention of the writers, and their introduction of the gene therapy idea. Take away what makes them Wraith (the instinct and need to feed on humans), and what do you have? Malevolent Overlords. das

However, for the Wraith, there is no returning to their "age of innocence"; they are at a crossroads and must continue moving forward.

I'm going to get philosophical and scientific now, so if you are easily bored you may want to stop reading or you will most certainly be put to sleep.

The Wraith as a species have survived unchanged for 10,000 years. In the life of a species that is a very long time. They were able to do it because their current form was the best for their environment. However, that is no longer true. Evolutionary pressure has come to bear in the form of the Atlantis Expedition. That pressure will continue to work on them until they, as a species, make some sort of change. They can strive to eliminate the competition (the Lanteans), they can leave for greener pastures (should such exist), they can attempt a diplomatic solution such as taking a part of the galaxy as their own territory where they may continue their ways unmolested, or they can make a fundamental change in their civilization by changing what they use as a food source.

If the future of the Wraith story were in my hands, I would have the majority accept the retrovirus. In my ideal world, Todd will perfect it and form an alliance of Hives willing to accept it and adapt to the Brave New World. As terms for this, they would be granted a portion of the galaxy as their own territory and the citizens of those planets would be under Wraith rule. It would be to the advantage of both Wraith and human to coexist somehow, though the Wraith would most certainly be overlords. The retrovirus changes their digestion not their personalities and I would expect them to continue in their warlike ways with Hives continuing to fight for control of the "best" worlds. However, some Wraith to refuse to change and continue to exist as outlaws and raiders; others who accepted the treatment might decide it was a mistake and decide to go back to the old ways of culling.

I think they are defined by more than just their "need to feed" on humans; as a species I think they are defined by their hunger: for lifeforce, for power, for territory. Were I writing the last chapter of the story, I would choose evolution rather than extinction for the Wraith.

[dasNdanger]

You don't give yourself enough credit. You are extremely eloquent. And as I have said before, you are not a nutcase, you are just passionate about what you believe.



However, for the Wraith, there is no returning to their "age of innocence"; they are at a crossroads and must continue moving forward.

I'm going to get philosophical and scientific now, so if you are easily bored you may want to stop reading or you will most certainly be put to sleep.

The Wraith as a species have survived unchanged for 10,000 years. In the life of a species that is a very long time. They were able to do it because their current form was the best for their environment. However, that is no longer true. Evolutionary pressure has come to bear in the form of the Atlantis Expedition. That pressure will continue to work on them until they, as a species, make some sort of change. They can strive to eliminate the competition (the Lanteans), they can leave for greener pastures (should such exist), they can attempt a diplomatic solution such as taking a part of the galaxy as their own territory where they may continue their ways unmolested, or they can make a fundamental change in their civilization by changing what they use as a food source.

If the future of the Wraith story were in my hands, I would have the majority accept the retrovirus. In my ideal world, Todd will perfect it and form an alliance of Hives willing to accept it and adapt to the Brave New World. As terms for this, they would be granted a portion of the galaxy as their own territory and the citizens of those planets would be under Wraith rule. It would be to the advantage of both Wraith and human to coexist somehow, though the Wraith would most certainly be overlords. The retrovirus changes their digestion not their personalities and I would expect them to continue in their warlike ways with Hives continuing to fight for control of the "best" worlds. However, some Wraith to refuse to change and continue to exist as outlaws and raiders; others who accepted the treatment might decide it was a mistake and decide to go back to the old ways of culling.

I think they are defined by more than just their "need to feed" on humans; as a species I think they are defined by their hunger: for lifeforce, for power, for territory. Were I writing the last chapter of the story, I would choose evolution rather than extinction for the Wraith.

I like this idea very much...but, alas...you're not writing the last chapter...they are.

I want to be optimistic, but right now...it's just not happening. But - ya know that's me. I always think the worst. It's a wonderful way to live.


das

[dasNdanger]

I think they are defined by more than just their "need to feed" on humans; as a species I think they are defined by their hunger: for lifeforce, for power, for territory. Were I writing the last chapter of the story, I would choose evolution rather than extinction for the Wraith.

I just want to pick this part out and comment on it separately. I agree - I do think the Wraith are defined by their hunger (I said it somewhere before - they have a longing...longing for power, for food, for knowledge). This longing - or hunger - is what motivates them in all they do...pushes them forward to achieve whatever it is they're after. I'm kinda dopey right now - end of the day - so I can't seem to find any better words than that...but I think you know what I mean.


das

[masterling]

DAS OT

Spoiler:

what is today??? i went out and got my copy of the prince right after my art class. Have you had a chance? maybe it can be a spark of light in these dark SGA days.

BTW you write very well and i compleatly get what you're saying, dont be so hard on yourself.

[Sparrow_hawk]

I like this idea very much...but, alas...you're not writing the last chapter...they are.

I want to be optimistic, but right now...it's just not happening. But - ya know that's me. I always think the worst. It's a wonderful way to live.


das

Expect the worst, then you will never be disappointed? *Sigh* That is a tough way to live. I'm more of a "glass half full" person, but that is my nature, just as it is yours to see the same glass half empty. And changing one's nature is a difficult task indeed for Wraith or human.

I just want to pick this part out and comment on it separately. I agree - I do think the Wraith are defined by their hunger (I said it somewhere before - they have a longing...longing for power, for food, for knowledge). This longing - or hunger - is what motivates them in all they do...pushes them forward to achieve whatever it is they're after. I'm kinda dopey right now - end of the day - so I can't seem to find any better words than that...but I think you know what I mean.
das

Exactly.

[dasNdanger]

DAS OT

Spoiler:

what is today??? i went out and got my copy of the prince right after my art class. Have you had a chance? maybe it can be a spark of light in these dark SGA days.

BTW you write very well and i compleatly get what you're saying, dont be so hard on yourself.

On the second part - thanks. But you WOULD understand what I'm saying. I think Mallozzi, and most of the others on his blog, just think I'm a nutcase. We understand because we love the Wraith - it's a hard thing to explain to those who can only see them as 'monsters'. And I hate when people compare it to falling in love with a murderer in prison - it's NOT like that at all. A murderer is a criminal - taking a life though he knows it's both against the law, and immoral. But the Wraith take life to sustain theirs, so their mentality would be totally different. They are breaking no laws - they are upholding nature's law, and therefore not immoral. But people don't get that - they still see as evil, and compare them to earth's criminals. Ugh.

As far as the OT part:

Spoiler:

I haven't picked mine up yet - I was going to after work...IF I can find the right version. There are like - three - different sets. Not sure which I want, or which I can get in my area (at Walmart). Tomorrow I go up for my comic books - about 45 miles up the road, where there are tons of stores - and so I might wait 'til then so I get the copy I want. Can't wait, though! Even if I did just watch it last Wednesday night...

das

[Fandom Addict]

Yeah -- I have trouble expressing the feelings and concepts in my head because they tend to be abstract. I just 'know' what I mean, but to put it in words is very difficult for me - takes me a long time before I find the right words to express exactly what I mean. That's why I come off sounding like a nutcase 99.9% of the time...

You don't give yourself enough credit. You are extremely eloquent. And as I have said before, you are not a nutcase, you are just passionate about what you believe.

I agree, Das you are very eloquent. I'd love to be able to be like that, but I can't get what I mean to say out right, or I don't find the right things to say. Most of the things I have to say end up being flawed from the start. In the end, most times I just don't bother to say owt, so you've got nowt to worry about. You can say it, and what you say has merit.

Oh, you're going to be having an interesting work day today, yes! *g*

Try to focus a bit on work, lol!

Lol, I managed to in the end, only because it was so busy and I kept getting distracted!

I tried to imagine it and then started wondering if they snore.

I wouldn't kick a Wraith out of bed even if they did snore.

I'm glad I'm not the only one with such devious thoughts When he offers Sam his hand I just want to grab it and kiss it, she's crazy for turning him down!

I thought she was crazy too! But I'd have shaken his hand, not kissed it then (too many others), but I'd definately kiss it if was only me and him there.

Todd, naked, cuddled up in animal furs...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....*drools....THUD!!!*

I can certainly live with that! (Tyler Wraith - any of them - too. Steve, however, would have to be draped in silk, and Eddy is bondage leather all the way!!!)



das

I may aswell pitch a permanent tent in the gutter! Or build a house there...

The thing is, I really want the Wraith to keep their ability and desire to feed...that's what makes them who they are, what makes them unique.

Spoiler:

Warning, spoiler ahead.

Spoiler:

Caution! This will be a shocker!

Spoiler:

Okay, okay, okay - don't say I didn't warn you...

Spoiler:

It's only because I think handginas are totally...

Spoiler:

lickable.

Spoiler:

das

Handginas? When did they become that?

Afa

[JadedWraith]

On the second part - thanks. But you WOULD understand what I'm saying. I think Mallozzi, and most of the others on his blog, just think I'm a nutcase. We understand because we love the Wraith - it's a hard thing to explain to those who can only see them as 'monsters'. And I hate when people compare it to falling in love with a murderer in prison - it's NOT like that at all. A murderer is a criminal - taking a life though he knows it's both against the law, and immoral. But the Wraith take life to sustain theirs, so their mentality would be totally different. They are breaking no laws - they are upholding nature's law, and therefore not immoral. But people don't get that - they still see as evil, and compare them to earth's criminals. Ugh.

das

I hope you don't mind if I add my two cents: I do not see Wraith as pure evil, as they feed to survive. They kill out of necessity, and not of greed or envy or spite, as humans do. For Mallozzi and the others, they are puzzled because they conceived the Wraith to be the ultimate villains, and not to be understood and admired. Don't let it bother you, but understand that your passionate defense of these fictional characters might seem odd to some, especially to the creators of those fictional characters.
Anyhoo, if you are the ultimate nutcase, you have to share the padded cell. With me. Sorry.

[StarOcean]

As terms for this, they would be granted a portion of the galaxy as their own territory and the citizens of those planets would be under Wraith rule. It would be to the advantage of both Wraith and human to coexist somehow, though the Wraith would most certainly be overlords.

I'm not quite sure why yet... but this idea bothers me. Well, the phrasing of it, which makes me think its the idea that the Lanteans can grant territory bothers me. That word in this idea is really loaded with other ideas/implications.

And I don't think the Lanteans can, or should, tell Todd what to do.

For Mallozzi and the others, they are puzzled because they conceived the Wraith to be the ultimate villains, and not to be understood and admired.

It would help if the expedition weren't acting unheroic themselves. But I see the writers are fixing that and figuring out how to set up the situation so that the expedition is always right or vindicated. Which doesn't help either if we can see the intent.

[Sparrow_hawk]

I'm not quite sure why yet... but this idea bothers me. Well, the phrasing of it, which makes me think its the idea that the Lanteans can grant territory bothers me. That word in this idea is really loaded with other ideas/implications.

And I don't think the Lanteans can, or should, tell Todd what to do.

I didn't mean to imply that the Lanteans would be the ones controlling the situation. In my mind I envisioned a neutral party or body overseeing the negotiations and designating territorial boundaries for humans and Wraith. Or the Wraith and humans might declare a cease-fire and negotiate the settlement themselves. But since this is not my story to write, the idea is pure speculation on my part.

It would help if the expedition weren't acting unheroic themselves. But I see the writers are fixing that and figuring out how to set up the situation so that the expedition is always right or vindicated. Which doesn't help either if we can see the intent.

Well, the writers are not really fixing anything. To fix it, the Expedition would have to actually behave like ethical people instead of a morally bankrupt bunch of thugs. But as various people have said on JM's blog, the Expedition never claimed to be heroes or saints. They are flawed. And the writers make no apology for it. Since that is the way they intended to write those characters, we are stuck with the world as it is. Their universe is "working as designed", we just don't happen to like it or agree that it is a good thing.

[ciannwn]

I'm not quite sure why yet... but this idea bothers me. Well, the phrasing of it, which makes me think its the idea that the Lanteans can grant territory bothers me. That word in this idea is really loaded with other ideas/implications.

And I don't think the Lanteans can, or should, tell Todd what to do.

Spoiler:

It could be the new coalition of Pegasus humans who grant territory on the advice of the Atlantis expedition. After all, the Pegasus humans would need to know which planets to stay away from etc. and it would make them feel they'd had a say in things.

Having just seen 'Inquisition' there was a line which appears to solve the question of what the female Wraith in Rising was.

KELORE: But not before encountering a Queen.

Maybe TPTB finally made their minds up concerning Queens and Keepers. A Queen can be a caretaker for sleeping Wraith while Keepers are specialised technicians.

[MCH]

Yeah...I'm gonna avoid his blog for a bit (again) - IF I can learn to keep my opinions to myself for a while.

See, seems some folks there think I'm off my nut now... I must be moving up in the world, in the past, only Spikey thought I was insane.


das

Insane?? Nah passionate yeah

MCH

[MCH]

Ya know - I'm just gonna keep talking to myself until someone replies...

or, I'm gonna go to bed.

Speaking of bed...anyone else have a problem with imagining Wraith in their jammies, all tucked away under fluffy warm blankies? I do...just seems...weird. I'd much rather imagine Wraith sleeping standing up, fully clothed (as if their clothing was part of their exoskeleton). Or, if they do sleep lying down, then maybe naked, wrapped in a gooey, cocoon-like 'bed' - like what they keep their food in, only not as restrictive. That would be neat - each day they arise, their bodies all slimy like slugs. Slippy Wraith!

das

Sorry das but the Slippy Wraith! , idea reminds me off

Picture my friend had a tortoise when it came out hibernation every year she'd use baby oil to moistured the shell as it was dry.
One year no oil so used best Lurpack butter. Went very well until one of the cats swung off the curtains. She told kitty off and in the process well... Cue tortoise take flight as it slid upward into the air. Friend trying to catch tortoise with buttery hands, buttery tortoise, and cat and dog under her feet. She did catch him I hasten to add.

I just have the idea of Wraith, oh you get the picture...

MCH

[StarOcean]

[QUOTE=Laura Dove;9207666]In fact, I didn't dislike "Inquisition".

Spoiler:

I liked Woolsey's defence, and because the trial was flawed from the start, I didn't take the outcome as a justification for what Atlantis did. Even from the Pegasus humans point of view (who hate the wraith, therefore will never condemn experiments & genocide), the Atlanteans were judged non-guilty for political reasons, not ethical ones. So, I'm okay with it.

I really didn't like Inquisition. There was just so many things I found wrong with it.

Spoiler:

One of the reasons why I took the outcome as a justification for the expedition is because the trial was flawed from the start. It was the writer's telling us why the expedition were justified. The set-up and the reasoning for this episode was so transparent. The shoddy writing only really highlighted it. That the writers can't see how the expedition is wrong, and sees them as always justified, is troubling.

They could have had the expedition really examine themselves. Even with a flawed trial and judges, the episode could have been written better to show why the Pegasus humans would pronounced them not guilty. That the team did not feel any guilt, or reflected, or even discussed this among themselves, shows that the expedition themselves still don't see how they were in error. They're still clueless.

That both Ronon and Teyla haven't spoken up about this, makes me wonder. More importantly, that the writers didn't let Ronon or Teyla speak in defense, tells me that they don't think the expedition is wrong. At all. If Ronon or Teyla spoke in defense, it would mean that the charges against Atlantis would actually carry weight. But no, the writers can't sully their heroes.

No, wait. I take that back. It's more likely that the writers couldn't be bothered to think what Teyla or Ronon would say.

I see your point. But I think Todd already knows what Atlantis has done to Michael. Maybe not the details, maybe not the unforgivable betrayal in "Misbegotten", but he knows that Michael is the result of the Atlanteans experimenting a bio-weapon on wraith.

I think if he knew more about the details of the Michael situation would be interesting. Right now, I think he doesn't know how involved Atlantis was with Michael in terms of relationship. I get the feeling that he doesn't know how personal the situation is.

But I think that 1., he already judges Sheppard to his true value

Spoiler:

(hence immediately believing the Attero device activation was their plan from the start)

and 2. he also accepts it. Sort of.

Spoiler:

He was still hurt by the supposed betrayal.

Good point.

I can't help but feel that he hopes Sheppard be honorable makes him so much the better being. That evidence tells him to expect treachery, but he still hopes. While from Sheppard, we get none of that.

Back in Common Ground, he gave Sheppard's life back, even though he didn't expect Sheppard to uphold his end of the bargain. Though he hoped he would.

You know, I see Todd as much morally superior to Sheppard. While Todd is more ruthless, his morals are more straightforward: Everybody -- wraith, human or anything else -- has a right to defend his life and take any measure to ensure it. There's no point in revenge, or hatred, or prejudice. An alliance, and finding ways to cohabit is great, though, if only because it's a good solution to ensure his own survival.

Agreed. He's ruthless, and he self-interested. But he does have his own moral code and sticks to them. He also seems always... clear-sighted, I think?

I'm not sure whether or not Todd would have accepted Michael just after the end of "Michael".

I think Todd would get a feel for Michael's state and what the situation is first before coming to any decision. I also think what Michael was like before Atlantis would be a factor. Michael is pretty smart, as is Todd. I'm wondering if there may have been prior conflicts. Also, Michael may have been a Wraith that not many liked.

And after the second betrayal I think Todd would definitely not accept him, since Michael snapped then.

More Todd gushing: It's really amazing to me that Todd hasn't gone off on a genocidal spree himself. Or show any shades of hating humans. It's like he's really well-adjusted. On the other hand, I wish we could see some sort of PTSD from him sometimes. But alas, SGA is not that kind of show.

In fact, I tend to think he would have seen him as a danger, because of the mental instability the human traits gave him. He was already too human (in his behaviour) to be safe. Unlike the Allies queen, Todd wouldn't have wanted to kill Michael out of prejudice but out of calculated interest.

I don't think Michael was mentally unstable because of more human DNA. I think it's because he was so violated and disfigured. Having more human DNA, and overall just having his body messed with, would be a factor though. Different hormones, senses, chemical imbalances, etc. But I think it's the emotional turmoil that really did it. And something I don't think the writers really get; that having your body messed with against your will is traumatic. Sexual assault as an analogy has already been used. I got another one. Ever been pressured and forced into surgery for cosmetic reasons, even though you don't want to? You feel like **** afterwards. That the ones doing the pressuring refuse to see what they did wrong, and keep insisting that it's for the best, just makes you feel worse.

Side note, anyone know the song, Star Trekkin'? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlTMXiqbDZU

"We come in peace, shoot to kill!
Shoot to kill, shoot to kill!
We come in peace, shoot to kill!
Scotty beam me up!"

Sound familiar??!

Hence, why I love Star Trek: The Next Generation so much, campy that it is at times. I LOVED that they acknowledge in the series premiere that what was so pioneering for the original, was still flawed. They established that the characters of that universe were also aware of it. And that they were still trying to better. *loves Picard*

So, yes, they have thought about it. To me it seems to be a good sign that maybe the treatment will allow them to keep most of their advantageous traits.

I'll mention it on JM's blog. It can't hurt to remind them of what they should know.

Thanks!

I think their longevity, strength and healing ability is as convenient as the corner store.

True.

[MCH]

However, for the Wraith, there is no returning to their "age of innocence"; they are at a crossroads and must continue moving forward.

I'm going to get philosophical and scientific now, so if you are easily bored you may want to stop reading or you will most certainly be put to sleep.

The Wraith as a species have survived unchanged for 10,000 years. In the life of a species that is a very long time. They were able to do it because their current form was the best for their environment. However, that is no longer true. Evolutionary pressure has come to bear in the form of the Atlantis Expedition. That pressure will continue to work on them until they, as a species, make some sort of change. They can strive to eliminate the competition (the Lanteans), they can leave for greener pastures (should such exist), they can attempt a diplomatic solution such as taking a part of the galaxy as their own territory where they may continue their ways unmolested, or they can make a fundamental change in their civilization by changing what they use as a food source.

If the future of the Wraith story were in my hands, I would have the majority accept the retrovirus. In my ideal world, Todd will perfect it and form an alliance of Hives willing to accept it and adapt to the Brave New World. As terms for this, they would be granted a portion of the galaxy as their own territory and the citizens of those planets would be under Wraith rule. It would be to the advantage of both Wraith and human to coexist somehow, though the Wraith would most certainly be overlords. The retrovirus changes their digestion not their personalities and I would expect them to continue in their warlike ways with Hives continuing to fight for control of the "best" worlds. However, some Wraith to refuse to change and continue to exist as outlaws and raiders; others who accepted the treatment might decide it was a mistake and decide to go back to the old ways of culling.

I think they are defined by more than just their "need to feed" on humans; as a species I think they are defined by their hunger: for lifeforce, for power, for territory. Were I writing the last chapter of the story, I would choose evolution rather than extinction for the Wraith.

Actually I wondereed about where Wraith society was going. I think your right, if they don't evolve they will died out as a species. The males will fight but I wonder if a Queen could control her nature to lead her hive to evolve into Wraith who don't feed on human life force. If the Queen can lead the males may follow her.

MCH