Wraith Defenders Club

[GoSpikey]

Queen Teyla icons here:

http://bleeding-muse.livejournal.com/18376.html

[masterling]

Ok so I know im late to the dance but

Spoiler:

They eye candy in the outsiders was great!!!
The lean in whisper, the opening wraith talking to the villagers, the commander circling Rodney and Carson on the hive, and the one that really got me smacking the ground…… the commander standing in front of the orange display screen when Carson came to him. THUNK, THUNK, THUNK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW- I officially HATE Carson. Do no harm my a$$, that all he does. When he destroyed the crystals.. talk about getting angry over a fictional characters actions!

I’ll just have to ignore what actually happened and just re watch it for the beautiful voices (my god they were great!!) and the candy

[MyFavoriteWraith]

James, singing...

DED.

Does Chris have any features yet? Nothing as silly as this?

Does he have nice pictures on which DVDs?

Oh, they had Rachel in prosthetics, nice!

I loved that featurette. James was so funny. He does have a great voice but I love how he ends with "...and so on and so forth..." Another bit I like to watch when I need a good laugh. I miss James! Offhand, I don't think James and Chris have ever shared screentime as Wraith have they? (James was gone by Season 3, I believe, when Chris played Edgar and other Wraith in 'No Man's Land' and 'Misbegotten'.) Maybe James will come back for the movies? The two of them on screen as Wraith at the same time? The *thunks* will be heard around the world. If we throw Penny and Tyler in there...oh my, get me the smelling salts!

Oh and so far no featurettes on Chris/Todd that I know of. Which means there better be on the S5 DVD!

@masterling - You're never late. The party here is ongoing.

mfw

[GoSpikey]

Nope, I don't think that James and Chris were ever together.

Chris was there with Connor... And Scott.

[MCH]

*hugs* You REALLY have it bad for Todd, doncha?? I love your enthusiasm! I think I'm going to avoid JM's blog for a bit - too many human defenders there. I just want to stay here, and talk about lovely, sexy bugs...

Now - you MUST forgive me, Todds Worshipper...

Please...

But...

I just HAD to do it....

Spoiler:

Sowwy.


das

Hum so our Wraith commanders do Commando too.

Thanks Das and ToddWorshipper.

A quote

Spoiler:

Don't look now.... look casual
Yeah I see them. It's the WDC again.
Just give em a smile.

Have a nice wraithie week. MCH

[Wraith Cake]

I think how the cloning would work is like this: The originals are born...probably pod births like warriors, but the faced Wraith emerge as children ...maybe infants (though I doubt as infants). Then, instead of using the queen's genetic material to clone, I guess the faced Wraith - probably upon maturity - undergo a genetic 'harvest', where they are attached to umbilicals like the queen, and their genetic material is reproduced in the pods. The warriors, since they emerge nearly fully developed, probably go through this soon after they emerge from their pods, but the faced Wraith would have to mature first. Perhaps it's even a volunteer-type thing, since cloning would not be part of their natural instincts, so they wouldn't be driven to do it. But, instead, the idea of having copies of you still around should you die, well...it kinda makes you immortal, even if you do get killed.

das

Since the queens are incapable of reproducing like insects, if the show follows a scientific explanation, the wraith would have a mammal like reproductive system. One of the basic theories that divides large mammals from smaller mammals and insects is called the r/K theory. And remember a scientific theory is not a theory in the way we understand it in common usage. A scientific theory is the technical term for "the only possible explanation that fits with all the available facts." This is a brief quotation from Wikipedia:

r theory: In unstable or unpredictable environments r-selection predominates, as the ability to reproduce quickly is crucial, and there is little advantage in adaptations that permit successful competition with other organisms, because the environment is likely to change again. Traits that are thought to be characteristic of r-selection include: high fecundity, small body size, early maturity onset, short generation time, and the ability to disperse offspring widely. Organisms with r-selected traits range from bacteria and diatoms, through insects and weeds, to various semelparous cephalopods and [small] mammals, especially small rodents.

Where as the K theory goes like this:In stable or predictable environments K-selection predominates, as the ability to compete successfully for limited resources is crucial, and populations of K-selected organisms typically are very constant and close to the maximum that the environment can bear. Traits that are thought to be characteristic of K-selection include: large body size, long life expectancy, and the production of fewer offspring that require extensive parental care until they mature. Organisms whose life history is subject to K-selection are often referred to as K-strategists or K-selected. Organisms with K-selected traits include large organisms such as elephants, humans and whales....

Wraith were obviously the dominant group in the Pegasus Galaxy, further lending to the idea that they would belong to the K theory of evolution.

Observably, the wraith fall into the "K" category theory. Todd confirmed this when he said the queens could only produce a handful of warriors at most--meaning, like a human woman, we can only physically carry about a hand full of babies in the womb at a time, and/or produce that number of eggs.
I suspect what happens is that wraith worship the iratus bug because of the traits that it gives them and therefore adapt an "insecty" like culture. However, in terms of their ability to reproduce, it probably is not that different from a human female. I doubt the queens have children and rear them....[aside: right now I'm listening to AC DC as I'm writing this, and they have this hidden joke tract called "Dirty Deeds 'done with sheep'". It's hysterical] There are probably wraith females that do not have the same standing as a queen. I would bet, if the show follows good science, that wraith females give birth to faced and warrior wraith alike. The rank of the wraith are probably determined at puberty when the physical difference is clear. They are groomed according to the rank they will have later in life.

With the cloning facility and the ZPMs, the queens were able to take their eggs and make numerous warrior wraith based on one cell from a warrior wraith.

You probably know this from grade nine science, but every cell in the body has the exact coded material of every other cell in the body, except reproductive cells--gametes only contain fifty percent DNA. So, all that is needed to create a clone is an ovum, with a removed nucleus, then replace the nucleus of the ovum with the nucleus of say a blood cell, or a skin cell. The result is a clone, of the entire being owning the blood or skin cell. The queen cannot have sex, or any other female creating a clone cannot have sex to reproduce in this way simply because it requires genetic tinkering.

The fact that the ova were not placed back into the queen for her to lay "eggs" speaks once again to the highly likely mammalian reproductive system. In SOW, all that was required of the queen was for her to sit on her throne, and for her eggs to be extracted from her body (Ewwwaaaa! manga tentacle rape!!). These ova, were "processed" then for the purposes of mass cloning put into pods. It wouldn't make any sense for the eggs to gestate as regular babies in the womb, the whole point was to produce large quantities, in a short period of time.

The queen probably has a harem of female wraith she "has relations with" and does not engage in sexual relations with the males. I can't see the queens having children, breast-feeding them and raising them, or even getting it on with other male wraith. (Think of that truly ugly commander in The Queen *shiver*) She probably has sexual rights over mating couples, and all off-spring are her property and part of the society of her hive.

Now what could have happened at some point was a disease that killed many female wraith, so the only possible way for wraith to reproduce is through cloning. That would mean that they never have sex. This would be an interesting story line, and could possibly be what Mallozzi is going with.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

Das: I liked your rant on JM's blog, but you referred to the wraith as a different "species". According to SGA cannon, they're another "race"...of humans?




WK

[dasNdanger]

Das: I liked your rant on JM's blog, but you referred to the wraith as a different "species". According to SGA cannon, they're another "race"...of humans?




WK

If they are another race, they why are they referred to as 'it'? I've always considered them a separate species - if you go by evolution standards - humans (which would include the Ancients, Earthlings, Athosians, Satedans, etc) evolved from apes, whereas the Wraith have evolved from insects. They can't be homo sapien, therefore, they would be a different species, not simply a different race (which would imply that they are human, when they are, in fact, a different 'kind'. If they were human, then feeding on people, not just fellow Wraith, would be cannibalism).

Ah...but we will never see eye-to-eye on this one, so let's not nitpick it to death.

das

[Shanthaia]

If they are another race, they why are they referred to as 'it'? I've always considered them a separate species - if you go by evolution standards - humans (which would include the Ancients, Earthlings, Athosians, Satedans, etc) evolved from apes, whereas the Wraith have evolved from insects. They can't be homo sapien, therefore, they would be a different species, not simply a different race (which would imply that they are human, when they are, in fact, a different 'kind'. If they were human, then feeding on people, not just fellow Wraith, would be cannibalism).

Ah...but we will never see eye-to-eye on this one, so let's not nitpick it to death.

das

I second that oppinion

[MyFavoriteWraith]

Das: I liked your rant on JM's blog, but you referred to the wraith as a different "species". According to SGA cannon, they're another "race"...of humans?




WK

And to that I have to give a big Scooby "Huuuhhh?"
So does that make gorillas and chimpanzees a "race" of human because of our certain percentage of commonalities and similar DNA? Wraith have insect DNA intermingled with theirs and if we're to believe Dr. Carson Beckett (or at least the writer that was speaking through Carson for that episode back in, what, Season 1?) the Wraith have more DNA in common with their Iratus bug ancestors than their Ancient ancestors. I STILL have a hard time believing this, though I guess he said it so it's canon too.
Good gawd, they've got physicists to make sure their formulas written on their prop white boards make sense, can't they occassionally consult a geneticist and a bio-engineer occassionally? *grumble*

@das - I loved in your rant how you said you loved Santuary because it was everything SGA wasn't. I literally said out loud, "Ooohhh, girrrrrl! You tell 'im!"

mfw

[dasNdanger]

Since the queens are incapable of reproducing like insects, if the show follows a scientific explanation, the wraith would have a mammal like reproductive system. One of the basic theories that divides large mammals from smaller mammals and insects is called the r/K theory. And remember a scientific theory is not a theory in the way we understand it in common usage. A scientific theory is the technical term for "the only possible explanation that fits with all the available facts." This is a brief quotation from Wikipedia:

r theory: In unstable or unpredictable environments r-selection predominates, as the ability to reproduce quickly is crucial, and there is little advantage in adaptations that permit successful competition with other organisms, because the environment is likely to change again. Traits that are thought to be characteristic of r-selection include: high fecundity, small body size, early maturity onset, short generation time, and the ability to disperse offspring widely. Organisms with r-selected traits range from bacteria and diatoms, through insects and weeds, to various semelparous cephalopods and [small] mammals, especially small rodents.

Where as the K theory goes like this:In stable or predictable environments K-selection predominates, as the ability to compete successfully for limited resources is crucial, and populations of K-selected organisms typically are very constant and close to the maximum that the environment can bear. Traits that are thought to be characteristic of K-selection include: large body size, long life expectancy, and the production of fewer offspring that require extensive parental care until they mature. Organisms whose life history is subject to K-selection are often referred to as K-strategists or K-selected. Organisms with K-selected traits include large organisms such as elephants, humans and whales....

Wraith were obviously the dominant group in the Pegasus Galaxy, further lending to the idea that they would belong to the K theory of evolution.

Observably, the wraith fall into the "K" category theory. Todd confirmed this when he said the queens could only produce a handful of warriors at most--meaning, like a human woman, we can only physically carry about a hand full of babies in the womb at a time, and/or produce that number of eggs.
I suspect what happens is that wraith worship the iratus bug because of the traits that it gives them and therefore adapt an "insecty" like culture. However, in terms of their ability to reproduce, it probably is not that different from a human female. I doubt the queens have children and rear them....[aside: right now I'm listening to AC DC as I'm writing this, and they have this hidden joke tract called "Dirty Deeds 'done with sheep'". It's hysterical] There are probably wraith females that do not have the same standing as a queen. I would bet, if the show follows good science, that wraith females give birth to faced and warrior wraith alike. The rank of the wraith are probably determined at puberty when the physical difference is clear. They are groomed according to the rank they will have later in life.

With the cloning facility and the ZPMs, the queens were able to take their eggs and make numerous warrior wraith based on one cell from a warrior wraith.

You probably know this from grade nine science, but every cell in the body has the exact coded material of every other cell in the body, except reproductive cells--gametes only contain fifty percent DNA. So, all that is needed to create a clone is an ovum, with a removed nucleus, then replace the nucleus of the ovum with the nucleus of say a blood cell, or a skin cell. The result is a clone, of the entire being owning the blood or skin cell. The queen cannot have sex, or any other female creating a clone cannot have sex to reproduce in this way simply because it requires genetic tinkering.

The fact that the ova were not placed back into the queen for her to lay "eggs" speaks once again to the highly likely mammalian reproductive system. In SOW, all that was required of the queen was for her to sit on her throne, and for her eggs to be extracted from her body (Ewwwaaaa! manga tentacle rape!!). These ova, were "processed" then for the purposes of mass cloning put into pods. It wouldn't make any sense for the eggs to gestate as regular babies in the womb, the whole point was to produce large quantities, in a short period of time.

The queen probably has a harem of female wraith she "has relations with" and does not engage in sexual relations with the males. I can't see the queens having children, breast-feeding them and raising them, or even getting it on with other male wraith. (Think of that truly ugly commander in The Queen *shiver*) She probably has sexual rights over mating couples, and all off-spring are her property and part of the society of her hive.

Now what could have happened at some point was a disease that killed many female wraith, so the only possible way for wraith to reproduce is through cloning. That would mean that they never have sex. This would be an interesting story line, and could possibly be what Mallozzi is going with.

WK

All very interesting. But about the cloning - the Wraith we saw 'birthed' was not a clone, as far as I can tell. Alan McCullough touched on this when he answered my questions...clarifying what the Wraith said in the episode.

Wraith: "You have done well. The second batch of warriors is flawless [the one we saw birthed]. We now have a suitable genetic template with which to proceed to the next phase [cloning]."

That would mean that the Wraith are born from pods. Now, does that only apply to warriors, or to faced Wraith as well? Michael's words in S&R seem to indicate the carrying a child in utero is something foreign to Wraith: "I can't imagine carrying a child inside of you is very comfortable."

The fact he pointed out that - not just carrying a child isn't comfortable - but doing so INSIDE isn't comfortable. Just the wording there suggests that in utero pregnancies are not natural to Wraith. He had to modify the ultrasound for Teyla, again...suggesting that their ultrasounds are not used to detect a child in the uterus. The Wraith Queen in SoW didn't automatically know where Teyla's baby was, but had to search for his consciousness. When the Lanteans saw the pods in Vengeance, they thought maybe the Wraith were making more Wraith. Everything points to Wraith being unfamiliar with in utero pregnancies, and very familiar with pod births.

Of course, we may never know what the creators have in mind, but they have given very strong suggestions that all Wraith are pod-born. I'm cool with that - IF I could have had children that way, maybe I'd have kids today!! I've never been a fan of the concept of human pregnancy...only the seed-planting part, but NOT the 'carrying the watermelon and then pushing it out' part.

das

[dasNdanger]

@das - I loved in your rant how you said you loved Santuary because it was everything SGA wasn't. I literally said out loud, "Ooohhh, girrrrrl! You tell 'im!"

mfw

Thanks, but you know that's gonna come back to bite me in the ass - as is everything I've said there the last couple of days. Joe will surely pounce on me with a snark attack first chance he gets (if he doesn't, then I will be very surprised). IF he does - you guys better all stand up for me, or else! AND I just left another rant there...(yesterday's date)...it's a wonder the man hasn't banned me yet.

But that last one is my final word on the matter...for now.

das

[MyFavoriteWraith]

Thanks, but you know that's gonna come back to bite me in the ass - as is everything I've said there the last couple of days. Joe will surely pounce on me with a snark attack first chance he gets (if he doesn't, then I will be very surprised). IF he does - you guys better all stand up for me, or else! AND I just left another rant there...(yesterday's date)...it's a wonder the man hasn't banned me yet.

But that last one is my final word on the matter...for now.

das

You just let me know, das. I was going to just post a "Yeah, what Das said. Ditto!" but I didn't figure he would approve it anyway. I wonder if he'll even whip out the snark. He's all giddy about going to Japan and writing his horror script. If it weren't for his adorable puppies and his access to Wraith photos, I wouldn't check his blog at all.

mfw

[dasNdanger]

You just let me know, das. I was going to just post a "Yeah, what Das said. Ditto!" but I didn't figure he would approve it anyway. I wonder if he'll even whip out the snark. He's all giddy about going to Japan and writing his horror script. If it weren't for his adorable puppies and his access to Wraith photos, I wouldn't check his blog at all.

mfw

He would have approved it - he approves people who say, 'Boo! Bad, das, bad!'

I don't doubt he'll get snarky with me - unless the episode WAS meant to bring into question the Lanteans actions. IF so, then it may have been a set up for the next episode. However, if all they do in that episode is justify their actions, then - well, I'm done with it except for Todd. And if they mess him up...ugh...I doubt I'll even be able to watch the movie.

But for now I'm sticking it out for Todd and his brood...the rest of the characters can go rot...except Keller and Woolsey, at least until they prove themselves as cruel as the rest.


das

[dasNdanger]

Let's bash Carson! Woo!

Hippocratic Oath - original, translated into English:

I swear by Apollo, Asclepius, Hygieia, and Panacea, and I take to witness all the gods, all the goddesses, to keep according to my ability and my judgment, the following Oath.

To consider dear to me, as my parents, him who taught me this art; to live in common with him and, if necessary, to share my goods with him; To look upon his children as my own brothers, to teach them this art.

I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone.

I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion.

But I will preserve the purity of my life and my arts.

I will not cut for stone, even for patients in whom the disease is manifest; I will leave this operation to be performed by practitioners, specialists in this art.

In every house where I come I will enter only for the good of my patients, keeping myself far from all intentional ill-doing and all seduction and especially from the pleasures of love with women or with men, be they free or slaves.

All that may come to my knowledge in the exercise of my profession or in daily commerce with men, which ought not to be spread abroad, I will keep secret and will never reveal.

If I keep this oath faithfully, may I enjoy my life and practice my art, respected by all men and in all times; but if I swerve from it or violate it, may the reverse be my lot.

Yeah...Carson really lived up to that, didn't he?


das