Wraith Defenders Club

[LiquidSky]

two Days!!!!

Two more day for you guys. I have to wait Five!!! more

LS

[Traveler64]

WELCOME, INNANA! I'm kind of new, and I don't always know who is really new, or just been away for a long time.

[Traveler64]

Two more day for you guys. I have to wait Five!!! more

LS

BUMMER! I kind of thought that you must be somewhere else than North America. Unless... They're delaying it also in Canada.

We're going to have to be mighty careful with our comments. Just don't go to JM's blog...

Where are you located?

[Wraithworshipper]

No...It starts on Scifi this Friday night. Two days.


Wait...today is Thursday morning right?

Okay! That's a relief! My comp says it's Thursday.

Okay...that's enough of that kinda stuff. It's waaay past my bedtime! Sweet Wraithie Dreams kiddies!

@TMC No you didn't miss me! Go look at your profile, Sweetie!

[LiquidSky]

I think SGA should be broadcast on the same day but, at different time zones. SCFI channel, Movie central and I think Sky one in the UK. It would be nice if that can happen. I'm not worried about JM he never answers my post anyways.

LS

[LiquidSky]

dolfynnchick How is your Toddy coming along did you get a coat for him?

LS

[Laura Dove]

Wow, many messages, no time to reply.

But, of course, they didn't treat Todd all that great, either. They nearly starved him to death.

True, but I still believe that death, even death from starvation for a wraith, is better than what they did to Michael. Especially after he voiced his opposition in such a heart-breaking way. And speaking of that...

I have found the episodes when the Lateans turned Michael into a human, and then tricked him again, and again, disturbing to the point where I profoundly dislike watching them. From that point on, I looked at Carson's character, and even Weir's as somewhat unappetizing. I don't know if it was the writers' intent, but they came off as arrogant and morally very flawed. If it was the intent, then the writers have done a masterful job of it.

I especially resent Teyla for what they did to Michael. Not the first transformation, but her hypocrisy. Claiming to be his friend, being all sweetness and light, and in the end, hating him. I find the beginning of "Misbegotten" really hard: Michael's despair, and Teyla who don't even care a single bit, even after he helped them... Rhaaaa!

I'm just hoping that whatever death Michael gets, it'll be something that blurs the line between good and evil, because after everything that has happened to him, the character deserves more than to fade into utter villainy.

I, too, pity Michael more that hate him, and that is something for which Miachel, himelf, would hate us. He's never wanted pity. He's only wanted to be accepted somewhere by someone as a 'peer'. I hope that Michael's death will have some element of redemption in it. Redemption for him in the eyes of the others, but more than anything, redemption in Michael's eyes for the others and a measure of forgiveness for the wrongs they did to him.

Agreed and agreed, but like Traveler64, I doubt it.

No hurry! I am finishing tonight the next episode, might even post it, but decided to bite the bullet and put it also uner the Fanfic Thread, so that it doesn't get lost. So, you'll be able to find it there when you get around to it.

Cool! It's easier to follow stories when they are on their own thread.

And welcome to the newcomers too, although I'm quite one myself.

[GoSpikey]

Hi at all. What was wrong with the board here?? I can´t Visit this forum for a couple of days I have missed you all... @ Dolfyn Your Todd look sooooooooo cute I like him.. Is it all selfmade? Which probs you have with the coat? Perhaps I can Help you!!!

I wish all a nice Day or night.. I go to bed now because I have flu.. No wonder hee in germany is it wet and cold...

Yup, that Toddy *is* really cute!

And please don't say that it's cold and wet in Germany! We're leaving for Schwartzwald on Saturday, till Wednesday, so it needs to be all sunshine and a nice temp!

I'm just hoping that whatever death Michael gets, it'll be something that blurs the line between good and evil, because after everything that has happened to him, the character deserves more than to fade into utter villainy.

I apparently still resent Atlantis for that little fiasco. >_>

Girl, you have NO IDEA how much I missed seeing that signature you around here!

And I agree. They just can't kill him off like a rabid dog, or something along those lines. It's their fault. It's only right that they should pay.

For me it is 5 MORE DAYS until season five

LS

Well, still better than me because I'm gonna be away till two days before The Seed, which means I'll miss all the Mikey talk!

And cos the local tv channel has not broadcast Stargate Atlantis last week because of stupid sport, I will now a) miss Outcast instead of Trio (both not seen yet), but basically, when we're going to Disney in a month, I'll be missing The Last Man instead of a) nothing, b) reruns - never been done of Atlantis, c) Search and Rescue. And furthermore, they decided to baptise my goddaughter on the 3rd of August, when The Kindred I is on...

Life is very funny...

All of that for one stupid soccer game, or was it cycling?

I would like give a big wraithy welcome Alauralen and Inanna to the WDC.

LS

I already knew them. But welcome over here as well.

WELCOME, INNANA! I'm kind of new, and I don't always know who is really new, or just been away for a long time.

You're not exactly new.

I especially resent Teyla for what they did to Michael. Not the first transformation, but her hypocrisy. Claiming to be his friend, being all sweetness and light, and in the end, hating him. I find the beginning of "Misbegotten" really hard: Michael's despair, and Teyla who don't even care a single bit, even after he helped them... Rhaaaa!

Teyla doesn't hate him... She felt sorry for him. She knew that she could tell his wishes to the other ones, but they would never listen to them. Just like they wouldn't listen to her opinion about experimenting on someone in the first place. Her concerns were put aside, just like the ones Ronon voiced. That's the thing about Teyla, she's an outsider to the Atlantis expedition, even though *she* and Ronon are the ones from this Galaxy, they don't respect their opinions. Teyla couldn't do much for Michael, as they don't care what she has to say.

If you don't know that, then I think you know nothing of the character of Teyla... Remember that she knows what it's be like to be an experiment, to have different DNA, and stuff. She sympathizes with him, why do you think he bothers explaining things to her? If they truly hated each other, then he could just as easily have taken up a knife and kill her, or the other way around. Yet they aren't doing that...

Where have you been during those scenes?

[Alauralen]

First, let me welcome you to our little club! I haven't been around much - RL beckons, AND I'm trying to avoid spoilers.

Thank you! I haven't been able to be around as much as I like either with the kids being off for the summer, so I totally feel you there!

I, too, feel for Michael. Or, I did. I love the Wraith too much to condone what he's doing to them now, but when he was still 'Wraith' himself, I felt so bad for him. It was as if the humans had raped him biologically, mentally, and emotionally, invading his very being and stripping him of everything that he was, his very essence. It was horrible what they did to him. The scene where he's being held down on the table, screaming, kills me. He was like a trapped animal, being experimented upon. The only difference is that an animal doesn't fully understand the experiments - they only register the distress, the pain, the helplessness. But as a highly intelligent being, Michael fully understood what was done to him, what they wanted to do to him again. Terrible.

I do love the Wraith as well, but I can understand why he feels the way he does about them. All he wanted to do when he found out what he really was was to return to his brothers and his Queen. Then, when he is finally reunited with them, he is rejected and ridiculed for something that he had no control over. His own Queen, who he more than likely worshiped, held nothing but spite for him and was going to kill him as soon as his usefulness ended. If he felt betrayed by the Lanteans, how badly did the rejection of his Hive hurt him?

I've posted this before, but it's just so fitting I'll post it again. The lyrics to Disturbed's Down With the Sickness - it is SO Michael, every single word (the song, not of the spoken part that is sometimes left out of the shorter versions):

Drowning deep in my sea of loathing
Broken your servant, I kneel.
(Will you give in to me?)
It seems what's left of my human side
Is slowly changing ... in me.
(Will you give in to me?)

Looking at my own reflection
When suddenly it changes,
Violently it changes.
Oh no, there is no turning back now,
You've woken up the demon ... in me.

Get up, come on get down with the sickness.
Get up, come on get down with the sickness.
Get up, come on get down with the sickness,
Open up your hate, and let it flow into me.
Get up, come on get down with the sickness.
You mother get up,
Come on get down with the sickness.
You ##### get up,
Come on get down with the sickness.
Madness is the gift, that has been given to me.

I can see inside you, the sickness is rising,
Don't try to deny what you feel.
(Will you give in to me?)
It seems that all that was good has died
And is decaying... in me.
(Will you give in to me?)

It seems you're having some trouble
In dealing with these changes,
Living with these changes.
Oh no, the world is a scary place
Now that you've woken up the demon ... in me.

(chorus)

Yeah - that fits poor Michael to a TEE.

I think I heard that song once used in a UTube video, but I can't be sure... You're right, though, that most definitely fits Michael very well.

[Alauralen]

I agree about Michael. I already said it before but as much as I can forgive the first transformation (it's a war and at that time, they had only met vicious and cruel wraith), the second is just unacceptable. In fact, Todd is what I hoped Michael to become: A semi-ally, not really trusted but still helpful.

I agree. The first time they were testing a potential weapon against a very dangerous enemy. However, when he started having the dreams and feeling odd, they should have told him the truth, as Teyla wanted them to. The second time was unforgivable. He flat out told Teyla that he would rather they killed him than do that to him again. If they couldn't let him leave, then why couldn't he help Beckett refine the retrovirus? Why couldn't he have been seen as a valuable ally? He knew so much about the Wraith, he could have helped them. As it was, if he hadn't helped them in the first place in No Man's Land, they would have all been killed and the Wraith might have made it to Earth. He had proved that he could be valuable to them, so why were they unable to see it?

Spoiler:

Look at all he managed to accomplish with the help of clone!Beckett. He had no support from anyone and limited resources, but he still managed to refine the retrovirus and create an entire army of hybrids. How much could he have accomplished for the Lanteans if they had given him the resources he needed?

All in all, Michael fails as a villain for me because I pity him more than I fear him. He is a victim. A dangerous victim, sure, but still a victim. I wish him a merciful death because no matter what he does, even revenge won't ease his torment.

I know that it's a desperate hope, but I truly do hope that he is not killed any time soon. Though I do agree with you. If they do kill him off, I just hope that it is not some stupid death that is unworthy of him. He does fail as a villain in my eyes as well because he's been driven to do what he's done. Once again, I don't condone what he has done, but I do understand it. Besides, Connor Trinneer plays him so well that you can't help but emphasize with his plight. At least I can't, LOL!

[Alauralen]

But I'm sure they are open to flattery "Oh my, what amazing hair. Please don't feed on me oh great one, for I would be very un nutritious, and it would ruin your glorious hair style."

ROTF! OMG! That's great! Hee hee hee!

[Alauralen]

Wow - that is so very true. The humans did create him - his own path would have been quite different. Like you said, the first time was maybe forgivable, but the second time? He had proven himself, and they should just have accepted him as he was - like with Todd. But, of course, they didn't treat Todd all that great, either. They nearly starved him to death.

Exactly! They created him, why couldn't they see his true value? He could have done so much for him but now they have him as a dangerous enemy or their own making. They can blame no one but themselves for all the trouble he is causing.

[Alauralen]

I'm just hoping that whatever death Michael gets, it'll be something that blurs the line between good and evil, because after everything that has happened to him, the character deserves more than to fade into utter villainy.

I apparently still resent Atlantis for that little fiasco. >_>

I completely agree with you on how he should die, if they manage to kill him, that is. How many times has he escaped their clutches now? He is very resourceful, so maybe he can get lucky again...

I do totally resent them for what they did to Michael. Can't help it, it was so wrong the second time.

[Alauralen]

I've been angry about Steve, Bob and Michael from the instance of each occurance. I've been waiting for Sheppard and the 'team' to pay for those crimes for quite some time.
I, too, pity Michael more that hate him, and that is something for which Miachel, himelf, would hate us. He's never wanted pity. He's only wanted to be accepted somewhere by someone as a 'peer'. I hope that Michael's death will have some element of redemption in it. Redemption for him in the eyes of the others, but more than anything, redemption in Michael's eyes for the others and a measure of forgiveness for the wrongs they did to him.

No, he doesn't want pity. And you are so right, all he wanted was to fit in somewhere, to feel valuable and needed for what he could contribute. And he could have contributed so much to the Lanteans if they had just let him. I, too, hope for some kind of redemption for the poor boy. Going out with a final act of good would be a great thing for the character. Not to mention that it may finally make the Lanteans feel bad about all they they have done to him.

[Alauralen]

***I don't know what happened, but I just lost an entire post.***

I was saying that I've had a couple of crazy busy days and also with the board being so cranky, I'm trying to catch up here.

First of all (and that's when I lost the post) WELCOME ALAURALEN! I'm glad you joined us. I'm a newbie here (compared to others) and i can tell you, I felt right at home among all these Wraiths and Wraithies.

Thank you so much! I hope that things are calming down for you! It really sucks when life gets all hectic and crazy.

I have found the episodes when the Lateans turned Michael into a human, and then tricked him again, and again, disturbing to the point where I profoundly dislike watching them. From that point on, I looked at Carson's character, and even Weir's as somewhat unappetizing. I don't know if it was the writers' intent, but they came off as arrogant and morally very flawed. If it was the intent, then the writers have done a masterful job of it.

Yes, the characters did seem very morally flawed. Even though Carson was the one to come up with the retrovirus, I think I was more angry at Weir than I was at Carson. She just seemed so... cavalier and uncaring about the entire thing. I do think that Carson felt bad somewhat.

You are right. They created a dangerous enemy. He had crossed the line in as far as the sympathy factor when he kidnapped Tey'la with the intent to harm her and to use the baby, but if one really thinks of it--how much worse is this than what they've done to him; although, Tey'la herself opposed it.

I don't really think that he kidnapped Teyla to hurt her. Yes, I watched The Last Man,

Spoiler:

but I think that they just assumed that Michael killed her. There are a lot of other things that could have happened. She may have tried to escape by attempting to over power a hybrid, but in her weakened state was killed by it instead.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. He makes a very uncomfortable 'bad guy' and he does fail as a villain. I wish they would've taken a different path with him. I find it a bit... I don't know... illogical? Perhaps not the right word. I think the plot and story arc for Michael is too 2-dimensional given the background story. While Todd's plot line was handled very well up to now, Michael's is something of an artifice. I don't know if I make sense here...

There are so many other things they could have done with that character that they just did do for whatever reason. I agree that it is completely illogical to have done what they did to him the second time.