Wraith Defenders Club

[Infinite-Possibilities]

But then again, who's to say that another sentient species wouldn't eat another? Where is it etched in stone that all those with intelligence would hold off placing another such on the menu? Would we find it repugnant if when some giant crab species appeared - to try and take over the Earth - and were found to be delicious? I can imagine Gordon Ramsey would have a recipe book out pdg.

In my opinion it would be. I suppose I can't know how all of Earth would feel about said giant delicious crabs but in my view at least eating them would be kinda messed up. Or at very least, killing them just so we can eat them would be.

Is the suggestion here that this is a uniquely wraith trait? I'm thinking... crabs and lobsters being boiled alive... baby cows being slowly bled to death for veal... ducks being force fed for foie de gras... oh yeah, many humans can be gratuituously cruel to their food.



Todd can think of me as edible and tasty any time he likes (yep, we're back in the gutter! )

True enough, I suppose. It's actually funny you mention this, because I met with a group of friends the other day, and they even joked that meat tastes good because of how much pain an animal was in when cooked. I suppose that didn't occur to me, maybe because I don't eat any meat (not on principle, just because I don't care for any). But even so I don't think either animal cruelty or the uh... wraith equivalent of which are OK.

I suppose this comes down to individual interpretation but I thought of sadism to be a much more common trait amongst the wraith. Partially because wraith are implied to be biologically much more aggressive than we are. And given the conversation between McKay and Teyla that you guys mentioned, that is saying something.

But it's more than that because wraith are more than just their biological instincts: as I believe Ellia proved. I think the culture the wraith have adopted is one that specifically cultivates these aspects in the wraith population because it is essentially based around dominating and culling all the humans of the entire galaxy en masse.

Of course I would I imagine that much of the reason for that is because they need to eat humans to survive in the first place. That's basically why I find the dilemma of the wraith in the show so fascinating, and perhaps tragic. There doesn't seem to be any true "right answer." Allowing the wraith to continue to feed on the Pegasus humans like they do certainly doesn't seem acceptable to me. Exterminating the wraith also doesn't seem like the moral alternative. Even spreading genetic engineering amongst the wraith that the Keller and Beckett designed doesn't seem like the "right" option, just the lesser of all evils. I always loved the scene Todd had in First Contact with Keller. "Perhpas.... but then what would we do? Who would we be?"

Oh and by the way, I remember thinking to my self as I was posting that "Hmmmm, 'tasty and edible people,' I wonder if the other Wraith Defenders are going interpret those words in a another er... dirtier light as well. Looks like I shouldn't have ever had any doubt about it.

[Isolde]

But it's more than that because wraith are more than just their biological instincts: as I believe Ellia proved. I think the culture the wraith have adopted is one that specifically cultivates these aspects in the wraith population because it is essentially based around dominating and culling all the humans of the entire galaxy en masse.

For me, Wraith culture holds a degree of brutality that is similar to the feudal systems common in Europe in the middle ages, where it was de rigueur to kill off an enemy in order to accumulate power. The Borgias come to mind, and any number of other noble families e.g. Northumberland, who callously used a girl of 17 to try to keep England out of the clutches of Rome. Not to mention they all poisoned each other at the drop of a hat, and Longshanks was notoriously... ah... effective in dealing with his political enemies. Peasants (read humans in Wraith culture) were just so much fodder, though not in a literal sense, and at the mercy of their overlords. Take it further back and you will see human history is littered with such examples.

Of course I would I imagine that much of the reason for that is because they need to eat humans to survive in the first place. That's basically why I find the dilemma of the wraith in the show so fascinating, and perhaps tragic. There doesn't seem to be any true "right answer." Allowing the wraith to continue to feed on the Pegasus humans like they do certainly doesn't seem acceptable to me. Exterminating the wraith also doesn't seem like the moral alternative. Even spreading genetic engineering amongst the wraith that the Keller and Beckett designed doesn't seem like the "right" option, just the lesser of all evils. I always loved the scene Todd had in First Contact with Keller. "Perhpas.... but then what would we do? Who would we be?"

You know, I have some sympathy with the IOA about the Wraith feeding on the humans of Pegasus *ducks to avoid flames* as before Team Shep et al ruined the status quo, things were going along OK. Hell, I sympathise with the Coalition and their viewpoint about the humans of Earth being interfering busy bodies... For me, because the humans of Pegasus are sheeple, and tame, their fate was always less interesting than what could be done for the Wraith. As you say, genocide, whilst an option, is not very palatable (pardon the pun ) and makes us look... well... like murdering MF's. Of all the options, only genetic modification seems a viable solution, but I also think the only reason Todd agreed is because he saw it as a way of maintaining his own hold on power. That way he could strike out against his opposition, and preserve a rather useful relationship with Atlantis.

And there is no doubt, zero, in my mind, that Todd intended to exterminate all of those Wraith who would not fall into line behind his banner. After that... well... then what, or who, would he turn his face towards, hmm?

My fave quote, without a doubt, and the reason why I find Todd to be so fascinating. So utterly aware of all the issues such a great change would bring to his people, but yet, still willing to address it because he knows they cannot survive in their present form. What a dilemma to be placed in! The way he mocks Keller too, in that almost gentle way... *sigh*

Oh and by the way, I remember thinking to my self as I was posting that "Hmmmm, 'tasty and edible people,' I wonder if the other Wraith Defenders are going interpret those words in a another er... dirtier light as well. Looks like I shouldn't have ever had any doubt about it.

Good to know we didn't disappoint you in any way.

[ciannwn]

So is it possbile a Wraith could actually care for a human, even love a human? I believe so. Look at Michael and Teyla. Michael clearly in his own way loved her and was willing to provide for her as he stated in The Prodigal. Sure he wanted to use the baby for experiments but he did not want to harm Teyla.

I think Teyla was a special case, though, because she has some Wraith DNA. He could feel a kinship with her because he saw her as a hybrid like himself after retrovirusing had resulted in permanent side effects.

[Isolde]

I think Teyla was a special case, though, because she has some Wraith DNA. He could feel a kinship with her because he saw her as a hybrid like himself after retrovirusing had resulted in permanent side effects.

But he didn't know that until much, much later on. The development of the emotional attachment Michael had for Teyla started before there was a realisation of his true nature, and I believe it is one of the reasons he experienced so much dichotomy with regard to those pesky emotions. Never truly able to reconcile how he felt, it is one of the reasons he went barking mad - well, that and the seething resentment, of course. Which he was pretty entitled to, methinks.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

I think Teyla was a special case, though, because she has some Wraith DNA. He could feel a kinship with her because he saw her as a hybrid like himself after retrovirusing had resulted in permanent side effects.

I actually thought of it more like Michael was the one who was a special case. He was altered by the team and made more human, and so probably acted more like one than a regular wraith would. Plus his experience was different than what most wraith's might have been.

[WraithTech]

Michael's comment regarding Wraith attitudes toward humans, combined with how seldom worshipers are seen or heard of even when the Tau'ri board or capture Wraith hives, gives me the impression that most Wraith do not deal with worshipers personally, and most hives do not keep worshipers on board. Thus, the majority of Wraith do not interact with humans other than to feed upon them. Those that do keep worshipers on board their hives are probably the minority - especially after the food shortage became a serious problem. Many that kept worshipers previously would surely have eaten them.

The number of on-board worshippers could certainly plummet to weed out the ones that are not truly devout worshippers. In all honesty, most of the voluntary worshippers are probably only doing it to save themselves, or because they they believe in some loony prophecy, or because they are thrill seekers, none of these reasons being because they care about the Wraith. In a civil war and a food shortage, it wouldn't make sense to keep hundreds or thousands of humans on board.

You have a very good point! In my opinion, it's not like it's their fault that the feeding hurts, you know? I'm sure they don't care that it does but it's not like they plan for it to hurt, it's just a by-product of eating.. You know? Did that make any sense?

It makes sense to me.

Except it is quite clear that Todd deals with them, as he used the network of Worshippers to gather information for Team Shep with regard to Teyla when she was captured by Michael.

Archimedes and Rhys took the time to convert and develop a network of worshippers to use as spies among humans too. 'Broken Ties' was a 5th season episode, meaning the Wraith still had, at the very least, field worshippers all through the series.

[Draco-Stellaris]

Archimedes and Rhys took the time to convert and develop a network of worshippers to use as spies among humans too. 'Broken Ties' was a 5th season episode, meaning the Wraith still had, at the very least, field worshippers all through the series.

And it seems to be general knowledge among the peoples of Pegasus galaxy that such a network exists. Teyla points out in season one that 'being accused of being a Wraith collaborateur is the worst insult for one of her people', so we can safely assume that there has to exist a fairly large number of field worshippers.

[WraithTech]

And it seems to be general knowledge among the peoples of Pegasus galaxy that such a network exists. Teyla points out in season one that 'being accused of being a Wraith collaborateur is the worst insult for one of her people', so we can safely assume that there has to exist a fairly large number of field worshippers.

Teyla also makes use of this knowledge on a different planet in season 4's 'The Kindred, Part 1' when she threatens the merchant worshipper with turning him over to the village if he didn't tell her where he found his merchandise. He knew the village would know what a worshipper was and that he might not survive.

[WraithTech]

Another point regarding different worshipper types and different ways that Wraith can respond to them: in 'Broken Ties,' Rhys let Tyre go, even after telling him that his usefulness had come to an end. This was either done to honor Tyre's service as a worshipper or as a way to tell Tyre that he needed to prove himself to be useful again. Either way, Tyre wasn't immediately fed on.

[Draco-Stellaris]

Another point regarding different worshipper types and different ways that Wraith can respond to them: in 'Broken Ties,' Rhys let Tyre go, even after telling him that his usefulness had come to an end. This was either done to honor Tyre's service as a worshipper or as a way to tell Tyre that he needed to prove himself to be useful again. Either way, Tyre wasn't immediately fed on.

The Satedan guy at the beginning of Broken Ties told the Atlantis team that Tyre had been let down by the Wraith and left alive as a bad example, so Rhys probably intended just that - leave him alive to be an example to other worshippers. 'If you disappoint us you'll be left on your own, with no access to the enzyme or other advantages'. As much as I'd love to attribute kindness to Rhys it probbaly wasn't his intention to be nice to Tyre.

EDIT: Found the scene in the transcripts.

SINCHA: You mean former Wraith worshipper. Word is, the dog disappointed his masters, so they turned him loose.

McKAY: That's uncharacteristically kind of them.

SINCHA: Not exactly. So long as he's on the run, he's a living breathing example of what happens to humans who disappoint them. Tyre's a marked man now. Most anyone I know would kill him on sight. It's just a matter of time.

[WraithTech]

SINCHA: Not exactly. So long as he's on the run, he's a living breathing example of what happens to humans who disappoint them. Tyre's a marked man now. Most anyone I know would kill him on sight. It's just a matter of time.

So... this is like Todd walking away from the Daedalus without feeding on the crew in 'The Lost Tribe.' If Tyre's punishment is to be death, why not feed on him, thus providing a meal/not wasting resources? Answer: TPTB needed a plot device.

EDIT: How would everyone know that Tyre was a worshipper everywhere he went? Would the enzyme withdrawal give him away? And, does this mean that humans either do not know about forced conversion or are not willing to forgive involuntarily converted worshippers?

[Draco-Stellaris]

So... this is like Todd walking away from the Daedalus without feeding on the crew in 'The Lost Tribe.' If Tyre's punishment is to be death, why not feed on him, thus providing a meal/not wasting resources? Answer: TPTB needed a plot device.

EDIT: How would everyone know that Tyre was a worshipper everywhere he went? Would the enzyme withdrawal give him away?

Yep, an illogical plot device, like so many things concerning the Wraith.

I assume it'd be the withdrawl indeed. And of course he shouldn't show anyone his bare chest, the feeding marks would also be conspicuous.

[WraithTech]

I assume it'd be the withdrawl indeed. And of course he shouldn't show anyone his bare chest, the feeding marks would also be conspicuous.

Did Rhys leave feeding marks? Archimedes didn't on Ara, but I think I remember Ronon might have?

I can't access screencaps on macsyouyrman. I hope they are not gone.

[Leeta]

This site has screencaps for Atlantis. Here

[WraithTech]

Follow-up on the missing screencaps: I think they were tied to this site:
http://www.stargatesg1971.com/
which says that the owner is looking for a new place to upload the photos. There are also other screencap sites offered as substitutes I didn't know about. *skips off to download the Bullseye ones*