Wraith Defenders Club

[MCH]

Eddie and his stunning stunner:

Spoiler:

das

STUNNING DAS.

MCH

[MCH]

Ya know when Todd's got his arm draped over Woolsey's shoulder, and he kinda caresses Woolsey's cheek with his thumb? Now...just put yourself in that situation! Poor Todd wouldn't have made it off that bridge pure and unsullied, that's for sure!


das

**THUNK**THUNK**THUNK**THUNK**

Spoiler:

Only, it's not Woolsey...it's you...and it's not a jacket, but a flimsy nightie...

Hmmmm???
Das

Ooooooo yes please and that's another **THUNK**


MCH

[ciannwn]

Well see this is exactly what I mean when I say, who is doing the telling in that situation: The Ancients. Who was the telling for: People who found the city. What was the agenda: to present the Ancients as "The Great Ancients" who did nothing but good, brought benevolence and paternal kindness to the galaxy--in other words, "you've found our city, we are good, be nice to us" (propaganda). If one were to take the hologram's information as gospel truth, this would be inconsistent with everything else we know about them.

On the other hand, the ones who were really doing the telling were TPTB.The initial scenario was the the Ancients abandoned the city because they lost the war with the Wraith. This left Atlantis for the expedition to find 10,000 years later and Wraith for them to fight. We're supposed to believe that the Wraith evolved without the Ancients noticing but it's a very lame explanation for those who think about such things.

You also have to think: the wraith can communicate with EVERYONE using the "common tongue" (whatever it is--modern English so be it) and yet cannot read even a little of it?

The C4 came from Earth and was supplied by the US military to the Atlantis expedition. Why would the US military label it with a Pegasus galaxy common tongue word in the Wraith script?

--this is much harder to believe and accept rather than the wraith, in this situation has made a poor decision. Do you see what I mean?

No, I don't see what you mean because you still haven't explained how everyone in the Pegasus galaxy is really speaking modern English. This includes people like the Bola Kai.in 'Missing'.

It's possible that the Atlantis expedition members had been taught to speak some Ancient seeing as they were going to a city where the Ancients had once lived. This could explain why Sheppard was able to speak to Teyla the first time they met in 'Rising' because there's no way that Teya could have been speaking modern English.

'The Gift' suggests that expedition members weren't so good when it came to the Wraith written script, though.

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1...ipts/118.shtml

WEIR: That's not why I need to see you. I've been able to translate the first part of the log from the Wraith data device

WEIR: Well, I translated the first part of the log that you brought back,

She wouldn't have needed to translate something which the Wraith scientist had written in modern English using the English alphabet.

It doesn't make any sense that he wouldn't be aware of that word regardless of the language he is speaking to the peasant.

We heard all the Wraith in this story speaking to the peasants in what sounded to us like modern English. Are you saying that Wraith and Pegasus humans really communicate in modern English even when members of the Atlantis expedition aren't present? We've also had scenes of Wraith talking amongst themselves when members of the expedition aren't present. Are we supposed to believe that they were speaking modern English or what Weir said -

WEIR: ... the Wraith language appears to be a derivative of Ancient

If you say he wouldn't be able to read English, chances are he most likely would not be able to hear it and speak it to the extent that he can.

So where did this Wraith learn to read and write modern English? Where did these other speakers of what sounded to the viewers like modern English learn it from?

Spoiler:

The rogue Asgard who had been in Pegasus for 10,000 years. There was no Enlgish language when they left the Milky Way let alone the modern variety.

The other thing I'm considering is that whenever we've seen Wraith and Ancient text it's in characters which are nothing at all like the English alphabet. If we're supposed to believe that the C4 was labelled in the Pegasus common tongue, why wasn't it in the Ancient script which looks like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_alphabet.png

[dasNdanger]

JM answered part of Das' question in today's mailbag:
Go Das!

Thanks for posting that! I was just going to do it, but got distracted by tv and another forum, and then totally forgot what I was going to do here. So, thank you much!


das

[WraithHumor]

Thanks for posting that! I was just going to do it, but got distracted by tv and another forum, and then totally forgot what I was going to do here. So, thank you much!


das

Yay das grats on having your question, or part of it answered! Thanks for asking that question too, it was a good one and something I have wondered for quite a while but now we have the official answer

[Wraith Cake]

On the other hand, the ones who were really doing the telling were TPTB.The initial scenario was the the Ancients abandoned the city because they lost the war with the Wraith. This left Atlantis for the expedition to find 10,000 years later and Wraith for them to fight. We're supposed to believe that the Wraith evolved without the Ancients noticing but it's a very lame explanation for those who think about such things.



The C4 came from Earth and was supplied by the US military to the Atlantis expedition. Why would the US military label it with a Pegasus galaxy common tongue word in the Wraith script?



No, I don't see what you mean because you still haven't explained how everyone in the Pegasus galaxy is really speaking modern English. This includes people like the Bola Kai.in 'Missing'.

It's possible that the Atlantis expedition members had been taught to speak some Ancient seeing as they were going to a city where the Ancients had once lived. This could explain why Sheppard was able to speak to Teyla the first time they met in 'Rising' because there's no way that Teya could have been speaking modern English.

'The Gift' suggests that expedition members weren't so good when it came to the Wraith written script, though.

http://www.gateworld.net/atlantis/s1...ipts/118.shtml

WEIR: That's not why I need to see you. I've been able to translate the first part of the log from the Wraith data device

WEIR: Well, I translated the first part of the log that you brought back,

She wouldn't have needed to translate something which the Wraith scientist had written in modern English using the English alphabet.



We heard all the Wraith in this story speaking to the peasants in what sounded to us like modern English. Are you saying that Wraith and Pegasus humans really communicate in modern English even when members of the Atlantis expedition aren't present? We've also had scenes of Wraith talking amongst themselves when members of the expedition aren't present. Are we supposed to believe that they were speaking modern English or what Weir said -

WEIR: ... the Wraith language appears to be a derivative of Ancient



So where did this Wraith learn to read and write modern English? Where did these other speakers of what sounded to the viewers like modern English learn it from?

Spoiler:

The rogue Asgard who had been in Pegasus for 10,000 years. There was no Enlgish language when they left the Milky Way let alone the modern variety.

The other thing I'm considering is that whenever we've seen Wraith and Ancient text it's in characters which are nothing at all like the English alphabet. If we're supposed to believe that the C4 was labelled in the Pegasus common tongue, why wasn't it in the Ancient script which looks like this?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...t_alphabet.png

Because they're speaking it. If you get a chance read through my post again. It wouldn't matter whether they were speaking English or not, everything they are communicating in, IN that situation, is in the same language.



WK

[dasNdanger]

Yay das grats on having your question, or part of it answered! Thanks for asking that question too, it was a good one and something I have wondered for quite a while but now we have the official answer

So, even though there's an underlying respect there, I guess this means we won't be seeing Shep confess his love for Todd anytime soon, eh?

I've always wanted to see the final (ever) scene between Todd and Sheppard go something like this...

Spoiler:

The two confront one another near a gate...

Shep: "Thought I'd find you here."

Todd (slightly exasperated): "As you would say, 'we had a deal'. I fulfilled my part, therefore, I believe, I am free to go."

Shep: "yeah, well about that. See, we still have this little problem of you sucking the life out of thousands of innocent humans. I just can't let that happen."

Todd: "Innocent humans? Ha! You know better than I do, Sheppard...there is no such thing."

Shep: "Yeah, well. Still..."

Todd: "I have done everything you wanted. I tried your gene therapy...it did not work. What more do you want from me? I cannot change what I am."

Shep: "And therein lies the problem. You can't change, and I can't let you continue feeding your way through the galaxy. Simple as that."

Todd (chuckles under his breath): "And here I had deceived myself, thinking that - perhaps - we could be...as you say, 'friends'."

Shep (coldly): "We've never been friends."

Todd (silently ponders Sheppard - and nods): "So be it. Then farewell, John Sheppard...it has been a pleasure." (activates the gate, turns his back on Sheppard and walks towards the activated portal)

Shep raises his gun, and points it at Todd's departing back...slowly he squeezes the trigger, but hesitates as Todd reaches the gate. Todd smiles to himself and steps through the gate...Sheppard, with gun still raised, watches for a moment, then nods and lowers his weapon, and walks away.

Yeah, I'd like the end between these two to be something very much like that. That's just a brief dialogue - if I had more time I would expand it a little...maybe later...but that's the gist of what I was envisioning.


das

[Shanthaia]

wow - that is perfect, das

[Mherriez]

So, even though there's an underlying respect there, I guess this means we won't be seeing Shep confess his love for Todd anytime soon, eh?

I've always wanted to see the final (ever) scene between Todd and Sheppard go something like this...

Spoiler:

The two confront one another near a gate...

Shep: "Thought I'd find you here."

Todd (slightly exasperated): "As you would say, 'we had a deal'. I fulfilled my part, therefore, I believe, I am free to go."

Shep: "yeah, well about that. See, we still have this little problem of you sucking the life out of thousands of innocent humans. I just can't let that happen."

Todd: "Innocent humans? Ha! You know better than I do, Sheppard...there is no such thing."

Shep: "Yeah, well. Still..."

Todd: "I have done everything you wanted. I tried your gene therapy...it did not work. What more do you want from me? I cannot change what I am."

Shep: "And therein lies the problem. You can't change, and I can't let you continue feeding your way through the galaxy. Simple as that."

Todd (chuckles under his breath): "And here I had deceived myself, thinking that - perhaps - we could be...as you say, 'friends'."

Shep (coldly): "We've never been friends."

Todd (silently ponders Sheppard - and nods): "So be it. Then farewell, John Sheppard...it has been a pleasure." (activates the gate, turns his back on Sheppard and walks towards the activated portal)

Shep raises his gun, and points it at Todd's departing back...slowly he squeezes the trigger, but hesitates as Todd reaches the gate. Todd smiles to himself and steps through the gate...Sheppard, with gun still raised, watches for a moment, then nods and lowers his weapon, and walks away.

Yeah, I'd like the end between these two to be something very much like that. That's just a brief dialogue - if I had more time I would expand it a little...maybe later...but that's the gist of what I was envisioning.


das

That had me going "Whew!" It would have to end that way,I believe too! It's definitely a "love...hate" relationship,kinda like when you play chess with a worthy opponent that you admire,but would love to really kick their a**...with a smile of course!!

[WraithHumor]

So, even though there's an underlying respect there, I guess this means we won't be seeing Shep confess his love for Todd anytime soon, eh?

I've always wanted to see the final (ever) scene between Todd and Sheppard go something like this...

Spoiler:

The two confront one another near a gate...

Shep: "Thought I'd find you here."

Todd (slightly exasperated): "As you would say, 'we had a deal'. I fulfilled my part, therefore, I believe, I am free to go."

Shep: "yeah, well about that. See, we still have this little problem of you sucking the life out of thousands of innocent humans. I just can't let that happen."

Todd: "Innocent humans? Ha! You know better than I do, Sheppard...there is no such thing."

Shep: "Yeah, well. Still..."

Todd: "I have done everything you wanted. I tried your gene therapy...it did not work. What more do you want from me? I cannot change what I am."

Shep: "And therein lies the problem. You can't change, and I can't let you continue feeding your way through the galaxy. Simple as that."

Todd (chuckles under his breath): "And here I had deceived myself, thinking that - perhaps - we could be...as you say, 'friends'."

Shep (coldly): "We've never been friends."

Todd (silently ponders Sheppard - and nods): "So be it. Then farewell, John Sheppard...it has been a pleasure." (activates the gate, turns his back on Sheppard and walks towards the activated portal)

Shep raises his gun, and points it at Todd's departing back...slowly he squeezes the trigger, but hesitates as Todd reaches the gate. Todd smiles to himself and steps through the gate...Sheppard, with gun still raised, watches for a moment, then nods and lowers his weapon, and walks away.

Yeah, I'd like the end between these two to be something very much like that. That's just a brief dialogue - if I had more time I would expand it a little...maybe later...but that's the gist of what I was envisioning.


das

That was awesome writing!!! Great ideas, seriously though it would really need to be followed by either a "So you let him go huh" then a "hmmm interesting" From McKay, which of course would give cause for one of the Sheppard to Rodney weird looks and a "What's so interesting about that?" or a simple "Whatever". Or another one of Caldwell's dressing downs for letting a threat to the city escape

But the way you summed it up is also how I wanted it to go! But I also loved the cliffhanger...

[dasNdanger]

Thanks!

Now I wish I had spent more time on it, instead of just writing a quickie off the top of my head. But, yeah...I have come to the conclusion that I'd prefer to see Todd as a full Wraith, free to do what Wraith do best, and Sheppard showing respect for Todd's nature (by not killing him), knowing that he feeds, not out of evil intent, but out of necessity.

But I doubt the writers/creators and SciFi/MGM would ever see it exactly that way.

das

[Mherriez]

Your right das, they don't see it OUR way,I think because they don't love(and I mean LOVE) the Wraith like we do! But, maybe,one day (one glorious day), they might realize that they created some pretty righteously cool beings that deserve to be treated the way the Star Trek Universe treated their characters...WITH RESPECT!!!

[Laura Dove]

I've always wanted to see the final (ever) scene between Todd and Sheppard go something like this...
(snip for size)
Yeah, I'd like the end between these two to be something very much like that. That's just a brief dialogue - if I had more time I would expand it a little...maybe later...but that's the gist of what I was envisioning.

You know what? You should write fanfic, Das.

[WraithHumor]

You know what? You should write fanfic, Das.

Good idea. As long as it includes a piece about Todd and his forbidden love for his Queen and the heartache of her loss while in orbit above Atlantis.

[ciannwn]

Because they're speaking it. If you get a chance read through my post again.

I did read your post - in fact I've read all your posts and asked you to try to explain certain things on several occasions but you never have.

It wouldn't matter whether they were speaking English or not, everything they are communicating in, IN that situation, is in the same language.
WK

I'm going to ask you some questions now. Please come up with suggestions because I'd be interested in reading them.

1: You've studied linguistics so could you explain how your above statement would work in real life? For example, you're talking to some Japanese tourists in English because they can speak English too. One of the tourists gives you a box labelled with a Japanese word written in Japanese characters. If you don't know Japanese, would you be able to read and understand that word because everything you and the tourists are communicating in, IN that situation, is in the same language? After all, if the tourist is giving you a box with a label on it, the label must be part of the communication situation too. Would you see that Japanese word written in Japanese characters as an English word written in the English alphabet?

2: If you think the above is impossible, are you of the opinion that the expedition arrived in Pegasus to find everyone, including Wraith, speaking modern English and using the English alphabet? If so, how did this happen? 'The Gift' reminds general Stargate viewers and tells SGA only viewers that the Ancients had their own language. The Ancients also had a script which is nothing at all like the English alphabet. How did Pegasus natives evolve modern English over the 10,000 years since the Ancients left and come up with the English alphabet as well?

3: We were also told that the Wraith language is derived from Ancient and we know they have their own script because we've seen it often enough on Wraith computer screens. If they speak modern English and use the English alphabet why don't we see English words written in the English alphabet on Wraith computer screens?

4: If everyone in Pegasus really communicates in a common Pegasus language, what was the language and script used on the C4 label? If it was in the common Pegasus language and written in Pegasus script, why would the US military label expedition equipment like that? Also, if it was in Pegasus language and script, why did we viewers see it in the English language and alphabet when TPTB have always shown us Ancient or Wraith characters for words written in Ancient or Wraith?

I'll have to use spoilers now because the next question gives more detail about 'Outsiders'.

Spoiler:

5: Elson has set Jervis up to get the Wraith into the booby trapped mine. Jervis, who believes the Balarans are in the mine tells the faced male -

JERVIS: There's a large chamber up ahead. That's where they're hiding.

There's nobody in the chamber and this is when the Wraith picks the C4 up.

(The Wraith looks down, bends down and picks something up from the ground. It shows it to Jervis.)

WRAITH: What is this?

Why does the Wraith ask Jervis what the object is? Does he think it's something to do with the Balorans and Jervis might know what it is because the Balorans have been living in the village for a time? If the scene hadn't ended there, do you think Jervis would have said "It's some kind of bomb because it's labelled EXPLOSIVE"?

I suppose the scene could be explained as something to do with literary convention or whatever. If this is the case, surely mangled science would fall into this category too - the meaningless 'babble' is put in to help the stories along so real scientists like leksa shouldn't go "Aaarrrggggh" and complain about Stargate being presented as science fiction.. Forum members with a military background shouldn't be annoyed when TPTB get something concerning the real life military wrong and members with a medical background shouldn't be saying that Keller's expertise is impossible for someone of her age.