Wraith Defenders Club

[StarOcean]

I've always thought of it as Wraith having their own equivalent because they are a group living species. They are very different to humans in a lot of respects, though, because they don't fall in love, get married and settle down to raise kids. Todd told Sheppard that the gift of life is reserved for their most devout worshippers and brothers but we have no idea what the word 'brother' means to a Wraith.

A Wraith would have to get to know humans in order to understand what love and honour means to an alien species. The same goes for humans in order to understand what they mean to Wraith. Ellia and Zaddik had a father/daughter relationship because he raised her from an infant so she came to know him as an individual even though he was a different species. This relationship didn't make Ellia human any more than it made Zaddik a Wraith, though.

I can agree with that. But that does show that they have those traits/concepts. And it still doesn't mean that trait, or the way a trait is valued, is exclusive to a specific race. There's also the issue that those concepts have different meanings for the communities and individuals.

I hate human centric views, because it is usually those who hold the current power that determine "who" is a person i.e. worth saving.

Heh. And nowhere is that more apparent than how we treat other humans to this day.

[Laura Dove]

I think, and again this comes from my view of the world (obviously)

Spoiler:

I didn't feel sorry for Todd, and generally I don't feel too sorry for the wraith or that the Lantians are doing them a bad turn. To me, the wraith are arrogant and condescending, they think they know better and they are extremely self righteous. The Lantians don't have the most open minded attitude but its is a little open, if nothing else for self interest. What I think is wonderful about these two races are the extent to which certain circumstances force each group to learn something unexpected about the other.

(I don't think my answer needs spoilers? It's a rather general thought.) I agree with you about wraith in general, but not when it comes to Todd. For example, I didn't really have a problem with how they treated Steve and Bob, and even Michael by turning him into a human the first time. However, when a particular wraith proves open-minded and, well, humble enough to work with them, then rewarding this particular wraith with a self-righteous nastiness never fails to anger me.

Todd doesn't consider the Atlanteans inferior to his own kind. In fact, he even opens a bit more to them and sometimes lets his feelings show a bit with them, while he wouldn't ever with other wraith. I doubt the reason he allows himself to be somewhat more sincere is that he doesn't consider them people. Anyway, he deserves suspicion because you never really know what he's up to, but

Spoiler:

he doesn't deserve having his entire hive killed for no good reason and being left to die a slow and painful death himself.

Both races mirror each other, but because the writers are so strongly biased towards humans, only wraith pay for it: That is what peeves me to no end.

[StarOcean]

What is that old cliche: love needs no translation--hokey but true.

So John and Todd need to fall in love, and therefore they need to make Pegasus a better place so that they can live happily ever after safely.

I'm being sappy. The discussion is starting to become a wet blanket.

And the writers can be on board with that! It's the ultimate simple and sappy reason for saving the universe!

... I think I may ship them.

Oh waitaminit. Infection spoilers:

Spoiler:

Maybe Todd was so open to accepting the gene therapy because he realized this meant John wouldn't have to be his enemy by virtue of what they are. They could truly be allies then and they wouldnt have to worry about shooting each other. Or did I already post this? I'm getting deja vu.

And who's to say the wraith don't love or marry or have babies and knit for them? We don't know that. I do want to see some wraith macrame

They can already make webs! Maybe Wraith silk is more durable than silkworm silk or spider silk. Would be pretty cool if it made great medical textiles. Wraith as a species seem to be VERY useful as a resource supplier.

And I bet Todd got mad knitting skillz.

[Todd's Pet]

So John and Todd need to fall in love, and therefore they need to make Pegasus a better place so that they can live happily ever after safely.

Like I said before Todd and Shep have already shared a moment of intimacy (the gift of life), so maybe they're already in love...

They can already make webs! Maybe Wraith silk is more durable than silkworm silk or spider silk. Would be pretty cool if it made great medical textiles. Wraith as a species seem to be VERY useful as a resource supplier.

And I bet Todd got mad knitting skillz.

You just have to look at the hair! I bet he knitted that!

And so we come backto that lonely little planet somewhere in the Pegasus galaxy where Wraith and their worshippers have fallen in love and now raise crops and cute little Wraith/human babies... for whom of course, they knit (and don;t forget the crocheted hive ships)

[masterling]

I have to disagree. Sorry.

Spoiler:

Yeah in The Queen he was strutting round Atlantis like he owned the place and that was cool to see. But in the end of Infection, he was defeated. He knew he was at Shep's "mercy" and Sheppard was letting him go only because he doesn't think Todd stands a hope in hell.
Todd was appreciative of Sheppard letting him go, as he himself said, but he walked through that gate into the unknown, knowing that the Iratus bug might not work and that he still might die.

I just thought it was sad.

btw Did anyone else just LOVE the way Todd pronounced Iratus, not "Eh-ra-tus" but "Ih-rah-toose", like it was Latin... so refined and educated! He even got a bit animated for a moment, like the true scientist he is!

Spoiler:

im not talking about his exchange with shep, just the part right before it, when he is walking up to the gate. he has his confidant walk. its not the walk of a broken person.
I also personally feel that shep felt he owed Todd the chance to heal. His body language spoke more than his words. I dont think he would admit to anyone that he felt some type of connection with todd. Using the excuse that todd probably wont survive is a way he masks his true feelings/guilt. JMO.

[StarOcean]

Like I said before Todd and Shep have already shared a moment of intimacy (the gift of life), so maybe they're already in love...

True! Larrin and Sheppard did say that it felt good in the Travelers.

You just have to look at the hair! I bet he knitted that!

Knitting without seeing what he was doing? Mad skillz, yo.

Ok, now for something sad again... Infection spoilers.

Spoiler:

Transcript says that the gene therapy was tailored to remove the feeding hands, not just making their digestive system work like for the Wraith. And apparently Todd knew this. I'm unhappy with the implications.

*sigh* Forget it. The last of my goodwill towards the show has gone. I'm going to stick with the SGA that's in my head.

[Laura Dove]

Ok, now for something sad again... Infection spoilers.

Spoiler:

Transcript says that the gene therapy was tailored to remove the feeding hands, not just making their digestive system work like for the Wraith. And apparently Todd knew this. I'm unhappy with the implications.

Spoiler:

Keller: "The treatment worked exactly like it was supposed to do. It eliminated their feeding hands, it activated their digestive systems just like it did in the simulation."

So yeah, it sounds like removing their ability to feed on life force was done by design, as opposed to simply a side effect.

[ciannwn]

Hey, hey Ciannwn--I love this name!!

Thank you. It means dog of Annwn - one of those hounds with a white coat and shining red ears.

Again, Star Ocean is saying issues of "brotherhood" are not exclusively a human concept:-a dog will consider his posse "his pack" whether that posse is made up of other dogs, or dogs, cats, a parrot and a couple of hairless apes. A dog will defend a cat against another dog to the death, if that cat belongs to his "pack".

Dogs, like humans, are group living animals so they evolved a social structure which was suitable for their species when living in the wild. My husband and I had several dogs at one time and we were the 'pack leaders'. We had to understand their ways and adapt to them to a certain extent the same as they had to adapt to living in a house and being led by humans. We had a very close and loving relationship with our pack but we never became dogs and they never became humans. We've now got cats but we haven't become cats and they haven't become humans. Just as well too because the joy of living with dogs and cats is having a relationship with other species.

I looked up definitions for the word 'brotherhood' -

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...ition&ct=title

# the kinship relation between a male offspring and the siblings
# people engaged in a particular occupation; "the medical fraternity"
# the feeling that men should treat one another like brothers
# union: an organization of employees formed to bargain with the employer; "you have to join the union in order to get a job"

The state of being brothers or a brother; An association for any purpose, as a society of monks; a fraternity; The whole body of persons engaged in the same business, -- especially those of the same profession; as, the legal or medical brotherhood; Persons, and, poetically, things, of a like kind

a Spiritual "organization" formed for a particular purpose;

Are Wraith brothers siblings in that they have the same Queen as a mother or is it to do with living in the same hive, their equivalent of a close friendship or what? Unfortunately we don't know because it was never explained.

Annnnd once again Star Ocean is saying these qualities are not exclusive to humanity.

Humans, like dogs and Wraith, are a group living species so there will be some similarities. Wraith, however, are humanoid insects so most of them feel happier if they are ruled by a Queen who isn't the same as a human monarch.

But clearly we can say, there is a "need" both races identify with or they would not be able to traverse through these "qualities" with such ease. For instance, the wraith need to be loved--Ellia needed to be loved; the wraith need to be reassured--Ellia needed to reassured--the wraith need to be taken care of--Ellia needed to be taken care of bla bla bla. Humans need to be loved--Ellia gave love to her father; humans need to be reassured--Ellia reassured her father (about not travelling too far into the hills) etc.

Todd is a rare exception when it comes to going his own way but he was separated from Wraith society for a very long time. Ellia was raised by a human. As Wraith are part human it shouldn't be impossible for them to understand and adapt to human 'group living' ways but it's going to be a lot harder for humans to reciprocate because humans aren't part Iratus bug.

And who's to say the wraith don't love or marry or have babies and knit for them? We don't know that.

With the shortage of females in Wraith society a Queen would end up having a lot of husbands. Seeing as she has to produce hundreds of Wraith offspring it would be impossible for her to knit baby clothes for all of them so that job goes to her spouses.

I do want to see some wraith macrame.

They'd make things that look like spiders' webs then wonder what to do with them because they serve no practical purpose.

[Todd's Pet]

Spoiler:

im not talking about his exchange with shep, just the part right before it, when he is walking up to the gate. he has his confidant walk. its not the walk of a broken person.
I also personally feel that shep felt he owed Todd the chance to heal. His body language spoke more than his words. I dont think he would admit to anyone that he felt some type of connection with todd. Using the excuse that todd probably wont survive is a way he masks his true feelings/guilt. JMO.

Spoiler:

I don't think Todd could ever walk like a broken person - he has far too much pride. It's in the eyes, though.

btw, talking of the possession/dispossession of handginas... do you get left-handed Wraith (or even ambidextrous) do you think?

OK, sorry, now I'm going to go to bed and dream about Todd SAVING THE UNIVERSE!

No, wait, tonight I'd like to dream about being that hive Queen who has all those Wraith husbands... I'm a fast knitter so I could handle that! Don't know about all those babies, though...

Rambling... sleep now...

[Wraith Cake]

(I don't think my answer needs spoilers? It's a rather general thought.) I agree with you about wraith in general, but not when it comes to Todd. For example, I didn't really have a problem with how they treated Steve and Bob, and even Michael by turning him into a human the first time. However, when a particular wraith proves open-minded and, well, humble enough to work with them, then rewarding this particular wraith with a self-righteous nastiness never fails to anger me.

Of course, I don't really like the way they treat him either--but I do understand it. He is extremely duplicitous, but the difference is that he seems to have a sense of honour and tolerance, he is open minded.

Todd doesn't consider the Atlanteans inferior to his own kind.

Oh, I think he would have no problem wiping them out given half a chance to do so, and I also think he could care less about the "worth" of the human race. He is extremely pragmatic and has aligned himself with them because it is a smart move--he's no fool and he knows they are at least intellectually his peer. I do think though that ending scene in Infection was meant to be a "token" of good will from Shepard to Todd--this is why I think Todd says I won't forget this. Though it was a rather cheesy ending.

In fact, he even opens a bit more to them and sometimes lets his feelings show a bit with them, while he wouldn't ever with other wraith. I doubt the reason he allows himself to be somewhat more sincere is that he doesn't consider them people. Anyway, he deserves suspicion because you never really know what he's up to, but

Spoiler:

he doesn't deserve having his entire hive killed for no good reason and being left to die a slow and painful death himself.

I don't think this was Shepard's "malicious plan" (to kill Todd's crew). He has had lots of opportunity to do it before, but hasn't bothered. I do think he would have easily carried it out, not because he has any hatred for the wraith, but because he doesn't have any love for them--so if it's their time to go--go they must.

Both races mirror each other, but because the writers are so strongly biased towards humans, only wraith pay for it: That is what peeves me to no end.

They are the antagonist--thankfully an interesting one. My problem is that I find the team utterly uninteresting compared to the wraith. They are endlessly fascinating.

I think Shepard wants to trust Todd, but he gets so vexed with him for constantly feeling like he can't trust him. Todd gets so angry with Shepard because he knows Shepard with do away with him practically for any reason. Mallozzi's thing is that "Shepard is a man of his word".

So, whatever, so is Todd.

This sounds like I'm anti-wraith. Nothing could be further from the truth, I just don't want to turn a blind eye to their faults. I want to love them warts and all (or fangs, or hand-ginas, )

WK

[naamiaiset]

Spoilers for Enemy At The Gate.

Spoiler:

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/1...stories_.shtml

Todd contacts Atlantis and reveals that a Wraith subordinate has managed to acquire several Zero Point Modules that he has used to power a formidable new hive ship. He urges Woolsey to attack and destroy before it becomes a threat to Atlantis.

On board the Daedalus, Colonel Caldwell, Colonel Sheppard and the rest of the team, rush to engage the new hive ship. But the Z.P.M. powered vessel proves itself an impressive opponent, crippling the Daedalus before making a sudden and inexplicable jump into hyperspace.

Puzzled over the Wraith's sudden departure, the team picks up a weak subspace signal in Wraith code. McKay is quick to recognize that the communique was sent, through subspace, from another reality. Once deciphered, their worst fears are realized. The Wraith message contains a familiar set of coordinates. The hive ship is on its way to Earth!

People can put their fears of Todd being the enemy to rest now... I think.

[MyFavoriteWraith]

Spoilers for Enemy At The Gate.

Spoiler:

http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/1...stories_.shtml

Todd contacts Atlantis and reveals that a Wraith subordinate has managed to acquire several Zero Point Modules that he has used to power a formidable new hive ship. He urges Woolsey to attack and destroy before it becomes a threat to Atlantis.

On board the Daedalus, Colonel Caldwell, Colonel Sheppard and the rest of the team, rush to engage the new hive ship. But the Z.P.M. powered vessel proves itself an impressive opponent, crippling the Daedalus before making a sudden and inexplicable jump into hyperspace.

Puzzled over the Wraith's sudden departure, the team picks up a weak subspace signal in Wraith code. McKay is quick to recognize that the communique was sent, through subspace, from another reality. Once deciphered, their worst fears are realized. The Wraith message contains a familiar set of coordinates. The hive ship is on its way to Earth!

People can put their fears of Todd being the enemy to rest now... I think.

W-T-F???? re: what I bolded in the spoiler above. Anyone got any ideas? Furthermore,

Spoiler:

it now seems we have our "Kenny" perhaps? Or maybe Tyler is playing another Rhys/Kenny/Tubbs looking Wraith commander.

Something else that's come to mind after watching "Infection" again (which I did tonight after taping and quickly fastforwarding through another throw-away episode, "Identity"):

Spoiler:

I have a feeling that the jumpsuited Todd is indeed on Earth at the SGC. Todd's crew is dead and now Todd is the only Wraith with the (retro)virus. After all the emphasis on the importance of this retrovirus to the IOA, I'm guessing they are probably going to demand that Atlantis find him and bring him in, even if the Iratus Queen restores him. I don't think Todd is going to become part of the team, I think he's going to become the IOA's guinea pig.

Let's see, sorry I forgot to multi-quote, but something das said earlier caught my attention. The whole "need to nuture and feed" the Wraith idea. I've always wondered about this "need" within myself. I never have had an appreciation for or want of a human child and yet I am absolutely ga-ga over animals, baby and adult. I have gone to great lengths to nurse back to health everything from household pets to field mice, geckos and pigeons! lol So, I always knew I was wired a bit differently, but I wonder if what das has said has any merit to it. I do view the Wraith as another species, albeit humanoid, but more like a kind of big wild cat/komodo dragon hybrid. lol I dunno. Huh. What a revelation.

And as far as Todd's mood in Infection:

Spoiler:

When he was in the holding cell on his Hive, well first I got this whole sense of deja vu. I mean, I actually barked a laugh when I saw him sitting behind those "bars". How many times has our poor Todd ended up in the clink? I've lost count! And I'm sure Todd was thinking something similar...only, uh not laughing. But when Sheppard was approaching him, Todd's back seemed it's normal ram-rod straight posture. His expression was a bit pouty when Sheppard told him to get up. But I don't think he was ready to give in. I think he knew Sheppard would come for him and he was just waiting for his opportunity. He didn't have the defeatist attitude he had in "Common Ground".
But back at Atlantis, when they showed him on the monitors, he did look a bit more "bent". It was hard to tell from just a monitor. But I'm sure if he'd been given shot after shot of different medicines with no improvement, I'm sure he was getting discouraged.
I'm still not sure how to take Todd's expression with Sheppard at the gate. I was relieved seeing more regret and maybe a bit of remorse in Sheppard's face and body language when he was talking to Woolsey and then to Todd at the end. I'm a little less confused of his treatment of Todd, but I am still utterly dumbfounded at that scene between Todd and Keller. It still makes no sense to me.

Sorry for making this post so spoiler-heavy. I hope "Vegas" is good. The preview cracked me up when Shep's character said he "wasn't a fan" of science fiction. Somehow, I think that's pretty true of Joe IRL. Well, here's to two more eps. *sigh*

mfw

[dasNdanger]

About EatG and the Vegas preview:

Spoiler:

First - the Vegas preview - if that's not Todd's hair I see in the attack on the guy in the car...I dunno what is. Now, it could be that other Wraith with his hair messed up a bit...but it could be Todd, too. I wonder if they will use this episode as an opportunity to kill an AU Todd...ya know, just to piss us off.

I'm guessing that the message sent from earth in EatG was sent by the Vegas Wraith...or, Todd. Who knows.

I don't think Todd will be used as an experiment by the IOA. Here is a possibility...

'Our' Todd, while searching for his Iratus Cure (or thereafter), gets thrust into another reality. For whatever reason, Sheppard goes to that reality, and eventually brings Todd back with him - this would explain the jumpsuit in both episodes. Once back in 'our' reality, Todd discovers the Wraith plot, etc...this would account for the scenes with him back in his coat.

The thing is, we don't know if the jumpsuit scene is at the beginning, or at the end, of the episode. If it's at the end of the episode, it could be that - after helping the humans in such a spectacular way - the IOA wants to meet with Todd, but they don't want to take any chances with Mr. Tricks Up His Sleeve, so they make him wear a jumpsuit. And the cap we see is Shep saying something like, 'now, just go in there and answer their questions and NO feeding jokes, okay?!'

If the jumpsuit scene is at the beginning, it could be a carryover from Vegas, or it could be anything, really. Todd after he has taken the gene therapy again. Todd after he was found wet and naked in the rain. We really don't know.

HOWEVER, we do know one thing. If Todd is the only Wraith who ends up taking the therapy, then he will be a pariah among his own - just like Michael. If that is the case, then the Lanteans - after what they did to Michael - are under obligation to provide a refuge for Todd, and I seriously doubt they - and the writers - will make the same mistake of doing so only to use Todd as a guinea pig. The outcry would be too loud after what they did to Michael, and to Steve. I think - in a way - they are trying to correct their mishandling of Michael and Steve in the way they deal with Todd. Instead of forcing treatment on him, they offered it to him. Instead of starving him, they fed him - no tricks this time. Instead of trying to kill him so a life-sucking Wraith isn't free to feed, they have released him - more than once - back into the wild, as it were. So, for every misstep they took with Michael, and to a lesser degree, Steve, they seem to be trying to correct that in how they deal with Todd. It's not perfect, but it's a lot better than what they've done to helpless Wraith in the past.

So, I am hopeful. My only concern is if I'm going to have to sit through a scene where an AU Todd is killed...like in The Last Man. Not sure I can handle that. But, otherwise, right now I am hopeful for 'Our' Todd...hopeful that, finally, the Lanteans will do right by him.

das

[StarOcean]

And as far as Todd's mood in Infection:

Spoiler:

When he was in the holding cell on his Hive, well first I got this whole sense of deja vu. I mean, I actually barked a laugh when I saw him sitting behind those "bars". How many times has our poor Todd ended up in the clink? I've lost count!

Spoiler:

I wonder how many times Sheppard has been behind bars? They really are alike.

Spoiler:

But I don't think he was ready to give in. I think he knew Sheppard would come for him and he was just waiting for his opportunity. He didn't have the defeatist attitude he had in "Common Ground".

Spoiler:

I'm not sure what he was feeling. Mix emotions of hurt, rage, and resignation? Or perhaps he was just numb. I really like his line, "You can't quite leave me be." Maybe Todd knows Sheppard is feeling guilty?

Oh heck. I don't know anymore. *throws up hands* At the moment, I'm frustrated and worn out from making up excuses so I don't hate the characters.

[Starry Waters]

Is EatG supposed to be one hour or two? They are having a marathon that day so I'm hoping they are skipping Sanctuary and showing SGA for two hours instead.