Wraith Defenders Club

[MyFavoriteWraith]

Gave you green (I HOPE) - my computer messed up and it submitted (I think) before I finished typing in a comment! I was going to say, for WeatherTodd, I'd watch the news every night! I mean...I'd just love hearing Todd talking about warm fronts, and high pressure systems...


das

Yup, it worked. Thanks!! (And thanks to leska too!)

Warm fronts and high pressure systems...lol. And just picture him gesturing at the green screen with those hands, those elegant fingers...*drooool* I'd be sitting there on the couch fanning myself every evening at 5:25 and 5:50!

mfw

[Mariellelita]

Somebody should make a cute holiday pic of the wraith. That would be so cute! lol

[StarOcean]

Unless someone else made the same point, that was me.

Spoiler:

I've read quite a lot of differing views on this and I do appreciate the points some of those who are more favourably disposed towards Sheppard have made. However, I do strongly believe that Sheppard only let Todd go because he had no realistic expectations of Todd surviving.

Spoiler:

I think Sheppard let Todd go because he made a promise to him. Todd's possible death was used to convince Woolsey, and also himself. Sheppard's body language tells me that he wants to let Todd go, but he's uncomfortable with it and knows that he's taking a risk. He's letting his feelings for Todd override his sense of duty and his need to protect his own.

I think Sheppard's previous experience with letting Kolya go weighs on him. And Todd knows this because he overheard it. (He should anyways. But the writers probably forgotten by now though.) Todd knows that Sheppard didn't kill Kolya and let him go. He also knows that Kolya promised Sheppard that he would remember that Sheppard let him go, but Kolya went back on that by capturing Sheppard in Common Ground. (The reason for it being that Kolya put himself and the Genii, over Sheppard's act.) And because of that Sheppard vowed that he'd shoot Kolya on sight. So Todd has a previous reference on how Sheppard behaved to based his assessment on. He knows that the last time Sheppard acted honorably it came back to harm him. Which Todd benefited from. Because Kolya was dishonorable, Todd was able to get his freedom.

That Todd didn't have the intention of harming Sheppard in the Seer, makes me think he was hoping that Sheppard would be more favorable towards him. Because he wasn't "pulling a Kolya." I think that's why Todd was so disappointed that Sheppard held him captive in The Seer. I'm pretty sure they also killed the drones Todd had with him. And Todd realized that he couldn't expect to be treated more fairly than Kolya. But I think that's why he doesn't resent Sheppard because he understands the reason for it.

So the John and Todd situation is more like John and Kolya, than John and Michael.

Hope Todd doesn't pull a Kolya.

I have to agree with you, although I believe he also feels ashamed.

Spoiler:

Feeling ashamed is nothing like actually respecting Todd, though. It's a very self-centred feeling and may wear off by their next encounter.

Spoiler:

It might be more regret and guilt. I don't think Sheppard feels shamed insomuch as guilty that he's being underhanded with Todd. I think because he's in such a position, being responsible for Atlantis, that he feels his actions were justified, even though he went overboard. He really could have saved some faced Wraiths. So he went too far with his precautions than what Todd did with the Daedalus crew in The Lost Tribe.

Huh. I think I talked myself into agreeing with you. Ok, shame is there.

Spoiler:

Todd can't win. Either he defends himself and is deemed worthy of being killed for doing the same the Atlanteans do constantly, or he turns into an *ss-licking human pet.

Yeah. Todd is the underdog in all of this. Sheppard may think he's a danger, but as viewers we have a different pov and can see that the balance of power is actually with Sheppard. Whether the writers think the same is a different matter though.

Spoiler:

On rewatching Infection... The bit where Todd goes for Sheppard with his feeding hand then realises it isn't there any more... Does anyone else feel like I do that it was almost like seeing him castrated?
Like you I can't see any way out for him. He either stays alive by sucking up to humans, or he gets his oomph back, kicks ass and gets killed for it.
I will, however, refuse to give up hope...

Spoiler:

Agreed. Todd is looking like he's in a lose-lose situation here. Whatever he does, he's going to catch flak for it somewhere. It would be interesting, and possibly sad, to see how where he goes from there. I'm having a hard time believing that he'd be vengeful though. Todd doesn't strike me as a vengeful type. He was willing to give the Daedalus and her crew back after thinking he'd been betrayed. Also, it appears that he hasn't made efforts to hunt down Genii or Kolya, who I don't think Todd knows is dead.

That brings up another point. Todd should be the best informant that Atlantis have about the Genii. All those feedings down in the Genii cell, I find it hard to believe that he didn't pick up information through the feedings. He also seems prone to talking to fellow prisoners too.

So much potential. So many missed opportunities.

[MCH]

So, would they be the *Grapes Of Wraith*....
Sorry!

Ahhhhh, ohhhhh, *Grapes Of Wraith*....ohhhhh.....ahhhhhh ...... here only a few days she sure is fitting in well.
MCH

[MCH]

Thanks for the caps, TW! I love Todd's face in the last pic on your signature. Meanwhile, I couldn't resist...

Spoiler:

[IMG][/IMG]

MCH

[Wraith Cake]

I think every Wraith who is old enough that he/she has to feed on humans to survive will get problems. Killing someone is not an easy thing to do when you are not used to it. Maybe that's one reason why Wraith normally don't talk to humans?

Completely--yes!! How can you have an intelligent enlightened conversation with someone you have to sit down and eat, or in the case of the wraith lean in and drink? Of course it makes people crazy. This is also possibly another reason why the wraith so clearly want to distinguish themselves from humanity, other wise it would make any rational "person" go a little loopy.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

I've finally finished capping Infection. I made 317 yummy pics and would like to share 24 with you all. Grab some cushions and prepare to hit the floor everyone I have to do this in 2 posts ...grrr.

Spoiler:

Lovely pictures--man o man!

WK

[Wraith Cake]

That is a good way to look at it. It probably has something to do with preventing them from forming bonds with them. If they are your friends or "brothers", like Todd and Sheppard, then it becomes harder to think about feeding on them.

Of course!! This is probably one of the reasons the wraith are so brutal and also what led me to speculate that the were an experiment of the ancients. I mean who would do this to a group of amazing creatures? What if the ancients experimented on us, and our only sole means of survival was to kill and eat a wraith. Considering how much we love them, this would destroy some of us. At the very least make us a little crabby. This is also another reason I thought the ancients manufactured the wraith: they wanted to make them into organic humanoid weapons--an organic response to the replicator's mechanized existence (a humanoid mechanized weapon).

WK

[Mariellelita]

Of course!! This is probably one of the reasons the wraith are so brutal and also what led me to speculate that the were an experiment of the ancients. I mean who would do this to a group of amazing creatures? What if the ancients experimented on us, and our only sole means of survival was to kill and eat a wraith. Considering how much we love them, this would destroy some of us. At the very least make us a little crabby. This is also another reason I thought the ancients manufactured the wraith: they wanted to make them into organic humanoid weapons--an organic response to the replicator's mechanized existence (a humanoid mechanized weapon).

WK

Yeah, just imagine how it would tear some of the WDC members, such as you, Das, or Todd's Worshipper, if they had to feed on Todd.

I hope the Ancients did not create them as weapons, they are always doing something that has negative effects on others.

[MCH]

I nfection does concern me abit

Spoiler:

Even when the wraith who had took the gene therapy were not considered worth saving, by shepard but needed to be killed still. i thought that was bad- these wraith were still considered less than people- had it been humans would we seen a different attitude, would Gabriel' s/Todd's been worth saving by SGA team's standards...I do not want see wraith altered by this stupid genetherapy- it kinda hurt to see Gabriel/todd hold his hand up like that- it was like seeing perfection mutilated, like a ballet dancer crippled, an artist made blind or the hands of a musician cut off

I agree with Laura dove you said everything i wanted to say- this episode made feel sick to see Gabriel/Todd like that. i hope he gets back to how he was. lets hope vegas and EATG set everything back to perfection

I'll second this, seems to me as usual the writer missed an opportunity to really explore an interesting situation in Infection. How did they react well compassion is not a word I would use about Infection. Sound familar like how Atlantis treated

Spoiler:

Michael

A sad rant sorry so spoilered if you want to give it a miss.

Spoiler:

Here hoping the last few epsiodes will as Craig said
"set everything back to perfection".
I'm sorry to say but I glad SGA is finishing them Todd and the rest of the characters will not be hacked about by the writers.
Then they'll live on in fan fic and fans memories.

Sorry about that but I'm really fedup with the situation with SGA and the way it makes people feel.

MCH

[Wraith Cake]

Nice explanation. Although I would state that some culture is evil only if it is self-destructive. Otherwise, it might be all due to some different points of view. But this might be highly individual view, typical for me, because I'm quite reluctant to declare something good or evil. I saw too many examples in life when those definition highly depend on the point of view.

OT
I think the reason, actually I should say "the main reason" I am so opinionated (in particular on issues of morality and good and evil) has to do with my job. Of course there are many teachers in various provinces in Ontario, and the US and worldwide that share similar job descriptions, but I have to say that working for the TDSB (the Toronto District School Board) is incredibly politically charged.
The TDSB is a board representative of Toronto. What I mean by this is, Toronto is the most multiculturally diverse city in the world--this was part of our failed bid for the 2008 Olympics. The challenge with living in Canada, and in particular living in Toronto is political correctness. Canada is an incredibly accommodating nation--this of course is a good and bad thing. It's good in that we're nice, it's bad in that we don't always draw a line in the sand, we want to believe "everybody" is right, when clearly this cannot be possible.

So, if one couples this by living in Toronto where it is very likely you will meet (quite literally), live with, work with, teach and go to school with people from any country in the world and I mean ANY COUNTRY in the world, it becomes quite emotionally exhausting to always be "on". This becomes quite necessary to constantly "ascertain" what is "right" and what is "wrong". We have to constantly define it, defend it, see both sides of it, deal with its social responsibilities and liabilities, and finally accept the board's politically manufactured mandate upon it (what is right and what is wrong) For instance, when is child abuse child abuse and not simply a cultural phenomenon? By the end of the day your mind is a spin and you're crawling toward the winter break.

I'll give you three examples of what happened today. This is a relatively small number of situations (people are getting geared up for the winter holiday), typically there are many many more.

1/ A young woman of seventeen from Yemmen? is being married off to a man by her parents. Her parents have made an arranged marriage for her. The problem: she doesn't like the guy, in fact abhors him. Her parents are going to fly her to Europe and force her to marry him. Canadian law forbid children under the age of eighteen from being sexually linked to anyone more than two years his or her senior. I think this man is much older than this. Also, it forbids "coercion"-- no one can be forced into marriage here. So, we have to decide, okay is this cultural; is this legal? Do we find her a women's shelter to flee from her parents, do we call CAS (Children's Aid Society) or do we examine the intent of the parents (are they only meaning to do well by their daughter)? If this is the case, can we talk it through with them?

2/ I have had my grade tens presenting their book reports for the past two weeks. Well as student of mine decided s/he was going to present an "erotic" book. Of course, I hear the title of the book, don't recognize it as being the student's "approved" book, but I do not realize this until literally two minutes into the presentation when s/he starts to discuss "intercourse" and "the husband shot the lover with a bow and arrow and like the lover ran out of the bed naked and like the woman went 'ARRRRRRrrrrrr!!!! You can't like do that...'" So, I have to stop this student mid sentence amidst a burst of laughter from the rest of the class and plainly ask "So and so, this is not your book is it? This is not the book I approved?"
"Well, no Miss, but this was way much interestinger and I really wanted to read about the bow and arrow and the inter---" "Alright that's enough, you can sit down now."

So, the questions remain for me: clearly we need to discuss sexuality in novels; this is a part of North American culture, films and novels--so this does have a place in the classroom. However, in what manner should this topic be allowed in a discussion forum? Will some parents, particularly of our Muslim students, be deeply offended? What of my grade twelve students who want to write about drugs and those who argue "Intelligent Design" should be discussed in the science class. Where do I stand on this, how do I encourage critical thought yet refrain from offering up my own opinion (I get my catharsis here!!) -- this is a "politically correct" tight rope I and teachers in the TDSB walk every day.

3/ Last, one of my best students has anorexia--okay, who do I tell? Has anyone spoken to his/her parent(s)? Does the school know, do I call CAS as I am legally obligated to do if I suspect child abuse? Where is the health nurse? Can I ban this student from participating in sports in which this student I know is an active participant?

And on and on and on and on. There is no neutral territory at the TDSB.

Right now I am so exhausted from dealing with these issues, I have fallen asleep at the key board. I'm going to over and out for now! Uggggg!!


WK

[Starry Waters]

Have you guys seen this yet?



From: http://josephmallozzi.wordpress.com/2008/12/10/

I'm hoping he means the Wraith fan faction so it's about Todd. On the other hand, what kind of frenzy does he aim for us to be in if it is Todd.

Well...frenzy is more like 'excitement' - UPROAR would be more like an outcry against some injustice. So...hopefully...if he means Todd, then he just means that he will be an exciting part of the movie...and hopefully not something that will upset us.

Hopefully.

das

What do you think the odds are that he's talking about Todd and not Carson Beckett? I like Beckett but I'd much rather have Todd!!! Beckett's got a big following too though.

[Wraith Cake]

That is the new information. According to the series, Ancients came to Pegasus after the plague in Milky Way, and Pegasus was empty. That did not happened several million years ago, but several tenths thousand years ago.
At least that's what's said in shows. Remember that scene where one member of the team responds to the Ancients who took over the Atlantis that they are the ones guilty for the creation of the Wraith.

Let's see, I think it was in the very beginning, when the show states: several million years ago...and then there's a picture of these two "ancients" with bad hair and bad clothes looking disconcerted at each other. Then flip to the scene when the team finds the hologram of the ancient woman talking about the "somethin' somethin' bla bla bla enemy..." And then...if my memory serves me correctly I think it had to do with the war between the wraith and the ancients 10,000 years ago, but by that time the human populations had already been planet (Oh, ya ya I remember the phrase "where a terrible enemy slept"), Then let's see, Todd talks about/intimates several hundreds of thousands of years ago (presumably before the war with the ancients, the wraith did not have the healing powers they do "today" etcetera etcetera) I'd have to do a time line--which might be an interesting exercise but I'm too exhausted right now and really I won't have any time to do anything like this until my break next week. I've watched each episode at least five to ten times, but I'd have to go over each one again when I have more time to figure out the gaps in the time line. Anyway, I know this isn't a very specific answer but the best I can do for now. I don't read the books.

WK

[Wraith Cake]

No you simply have different view on this. I'm biased. I'm originating from small country which is usually forced to accept outside rules because it's small, weak and economically poor. That creates certain resistance and bad feeling. As the example, let me tell you this: Couple years ago, government of one of the small neighboring countries, (in the same situation as mine) made the law, with the acceptance of majority of their population, which forbid import of genetically modified food. Less than month after that they had to cancel that same law because US government told them if they do not, they'll stop giving them financial loans. So they did what USA asked them to do, but also said why they did it. There was public outrage, and demonstrations but nothing changed. Money won.
So you see why I'm biased. In theory that's lovely thought. But in practice is often misused for financial gain.

Ya, I hear ya. I'm referring more to the spirit of the law rather than the manifestations of the United States selective "interference" in foreign countries. For instance in Canada, we have a conservative government in a minority sitting right now. Stephen Harper, our prime minister, in his recent financial budget not only did not mention anything about a final stimulous package for the flailing auto industry and many other industries (in order to protect jobs and pensions), but he wanted to usher in his own ideology (Now is definitely NOT the time). His ideology included 1/ cuts to social programs (not a federal stimulous package) 2/preventing public servants from striking 3/preventing women from filing grievances because of "pay equity" issues in the work force 4/preventing parties from receiving $1.95 Can. per vote in order to pay for ad campaigns, party elections etc. The reason the $1.95 was introduced to begin with is so that the government remains accountable and transparent to the public, not accountable to corporate donors--which is a huge problem in the US. Therefore, instead of serving the public interests the party would primarily be serving the interests of the corporation that donated the most amount of money. Harper wanted to table a bill to cut this from the budget. So, on paper each party would have a certain amount of revenue that they could not collect from the public. I think is was something like 20 million for the Liberals, 10 million for the NDP and 100 million from the conservatives. So, on paper the conservatives look like they're taking the biggest hit. However, and this is the part that is deceptive--the Conservatives have tons and tons of money. Where do they get it from, you may ask? The Republican party of the US likes to pull the strings of governments in other countries. They very much would like a conservative government sitting in Canada, so they have donated millions and millions of dollars to the Conservatives, meanwhile the Liberals and NDP are almost backrupt. Talk about political interference eh?


WK

[Wraith Cake]

I think that the problem is again in what I consider to be evil and what you consider to be evil.
For me evil is heavy word. The ultimate one. I would consider something evil only if it is sentient and purposely and without any decent justification, chooses action that gives extremely long-term negative results and at the same time ignores existing solution which can lead to long-term positive results.

Of course, this is too is exactly what I am speaking about. There are some absolutes--I would not say there are many, but there are some. A good example is child molestation, torture and murder. Regardless of the age, the cultural context, the whatever and the whatever, this has never ever served a good purpose. The only issue to determine regarding someone who has molested a child is whether there was "sane" culpability.
I mean you would know this for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. My husband is a scientist. His specialization is not in biology or astronomy (though both he and I love astronomy and geology!!)but in chemistry and computer technology. He constantly fills my ears up with chemical science mumbo jumbo ( ha ha ha ) and the laws of physics bla bla bla. And I constantly talk to him about semiotics, and linguistics, and deconstruction and deconstructing meaning and on and on. Evil in the true sense of the word is what I mean, whether we see the immediate short term results from it, or the longer term results. Words are extremely powerful, and I use the word carefully. What the wraith have done, over thousands of years is evil. Their genocide, their burning of villages and destroying of families, their sacking whole cultures for the sake of their food intake which they could remedy and should remedy for their own sake, is nothing short of evil. I say this tongue and cheek because we've had lengthy discussions here on how the writers have not used good science, or even common sense science or really any kind of science (ha ha ha), but why wouldn't the wraith manufacture cloned humans without brains? --Oh right they need the "LIFE FORCE" the Luke Skywalker "Luke I am your FATHER" life force -- what the #@& is that??? Whatever. Anyway, what corporations and governments have done to our world, because we have let them is the same degree of on going non stop evil that has plagued our world for nearly three quarters of a century. So, regardless of a science perspective or a social science perspective, the wraith have got to stop it.




WK


Once again, I want to finish this conversation, but it is late and I still have work to do before I go to be. Hopefully, I'll have time to respond to this lovely conversation tomorrow. Night, night.



WK